ora to check the text about quoted triples

[pchampin]

this was discussed during today's call: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-07-16.html#t03 @rdfguy

[rdfguy]

I have been thinking of some suitable language that would further illustrate the distinction between asserted and quoted triples. Here is what I have come up with so far.

It is apt to draw a parallel between “quoted” triples and quoted expressions in the programming language Lisp. Expressions in Lisp (called “s-expressions”) are interpreted through a process called “evaluation”, and as a result they have a value. A quoted expression evaluates to the expression itself -- you can imagine that quoting prevents the expression from being evaluated. In RDF (as well as RDF-star), asserting a triple (i.e., considering it to be “true”) serves as the analogue of evaluation. Triples are asserted, unless (in RDF-star) they are quoted which, effectively, prevents the triple from being asserted -- thus a quoted triple stands by itself and we assign no truth value to it.

Obviously this way of thinking is helpful only if you understand how Lisp works.

This could be at the end of section 2.1 or thereabouts.

[pchampin]

Obviously this way of thinking is helpful only if you understand how Lisp works.

Indeed, which might not be the majority of our readership...

Also, I am not entirely convinced by this comparison. In lisp, you have (and you need) an explicit quoting operator, because otherwise, expressions get evaluated wherever they occur. In RDF-star, the asserted/quoted distinction is determined by the context of use, and only by it. As if, in LISP, only the outermost parenthesis were evaluated, and any inner pair of parenthesis were automatically quoted.

I find one sentence especially confusing:

Triples are asserted, unless (in RDF-star) they are quoted

I disagree: a triple is asserted if and only if it is an element of the graph. It is quoted if and only if it is embedded in another (asserted or quoted) triple. Quoting is not something that you can do to any triple, that would otherwise be asserted (which is what your sentence above seems to imply, at least for me).

[rdfguy]

In RDF-star << >> is the “quoting operator”. If you don’t see that, the triple is asserted.

Ora

From: Pierre-Antoine Champin @.> Reply-To: w3c/rdf-star @.> Date: Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:44 AM To: w3c/rdf-star @.> Cc: "Lassila, Ora" @.>, Mention @.***> Subject: Re: [w3c/rdf-star] ora to check the text about quoted triples (#196)

Obviously this way of thinking is helpful only if you understand how Lisp works.

Indeed, which might not be the majority of our readership...

Also, I am not entirely convinced by this comparison. In lisp, you have (and you need) an explicit quoting operator, because otherwise, expressions get evaluated wherever they occur. In RDF-star, the asserted/quoted distinction is determined by the context of use, and only by it. As if, in LISP, only the outermost parenthesis were evaluated, and any inner pair of parenthesis were automatically quoted.

I find one sentence especially confusing:

Triples are asserted, unless (in RDF-star) they are quoted

I disagree: a triple is asserted if and only if it is an element of the graph. It is quoted if and only if it is embedded in another (asserted or quoted) triple. Quoting is not something that you can do to any triple, that would otherwise be asserted (which is what your sentence above seems to imply, at least for me).

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[pchampin]

this was discussed during today's call: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-09-17.html#x049 Action on @rdfguy to turn the text above into a PR.

[pchampin]

The PR #210 has been proposed and merged. Closing