Spanish translation of words that involve gender

[rumoroso]

Hello everyone,

I believe that translations into Spanish have a handicap that maybe other languages do not have, and that is gender. For instance, the word "user" that in English includes both genders, in Spanish could be translated to "usuario" and to "usuaria". I think we should address this point since the inclusion topic is important.

Although I know that in many cases it can be complex, I think we should try to follow some guidelines regarding the inclusive gender in substantives and adjectives. My opinion is that we should always look for the neutral words (e.g., for "users" we could use "personas" or "personas usuarias"), build the sentences in order to follow a pattern that helps the use of neutral words, and in cases where it is barely possible (either because there isn't one, or because it may sound repetitive) to use the two genders ("users" => "usuarios y usuarias"). What do you think?

[cmuncharaz]

Agree with you, @rumoroso. You raised a great issue. It might be worth working in a glossary of agreed neutral words for common terms, like "user". However, this could be a hard task, because "user" naturally translates as "usuario", and using "personas" slightly changes the semantics.

The RAE, the Spanish language normative organization, is very clear here. There's a rule: male gender must be used when talking about both genders, so "usuario" is the right choice. Recently, they have warned several times about those attempts to break the rules to create an inclusive language: "usuarios y usuarias", "usuari@s", "usuaries", etc.

The debate about the Spanish language being inclusive or not is out of the scope of this issue. We can opt to conform to the rules or not. I think that the WAI documents should not be in the radical side, but it would be great to make those radical linguists happy by trying to use a neutral yet correct language.

More info: http://www.rae.es/consultas/los-ciudadanos-y-las-ciudadanas-los-ninos-y-las-ninas http://lema.rae.es/dpd/srv/search?id=Tr5x8MFOuD6DVTlDBg (check point No. 2)

[shawna-slh]

a couple thoughts notes off the top of my head:

• in English, "personas" are a specific thing that is different from "users", e.g., http://uiaccess.com/accessucd/personas.html
• how is "users" translated into Spanish for things like "user-centered design" and "user experience"? (maybe check with: https://uxpa.org/chapter/uxpa-madrid , https://uxpa.org/chapter/uxpa-mexico)

[rumoroso]

Just a couple of things. I agree that the meaning of "persona" is not the same than "user". Maybe my example was not the best because I first said "personas", but I also mentioned an alternative with what I think it is the exact same meaning "personas usuarias".

Regarding to what RAE says, of course I am not asking for new invented words like "usuaries" or "usuari@", but I wouldn't include in the same level the use of "usuarios y usuarias", which in my opinion doesn't go against any rule.

@cmuncharaz I understand your point and in many cases the way in which we write doesn't fit exactly with the real intention. I say this because you mentioned two things that I disagree with:

• First, you said "The debate about the Spanish language being inclusive or not is out of the scope of this issue", which I think is a wrong conception. I disagree because it is the issue by itself (read the title ;) )
• I disagree with the term "radical" when talking about inclusion. If I am bringing this topic, the use of the inclusive language, is because for many people (including myself) is important and I honestly don't consider it radical.

[cmuncharaz]

Regarding to what RAE says, of course I am not asking for new invented words like "usuaries" or "usuari@", but I wouldn't include in the same level the use of "usuarios y usuarias", which in my opinion doesn't go against any rule.

It does: http://www.rae.es/consultas/los-ciudadanos-y-las-ciudadanas-los-ninos-y-las-ninas

The RAE expressly warned against that repetition because it goes against the economy of the language and is not needed because there's a rule to avoid that.

I am all for the inclusion, but I am not in a position to debate why the Spanish language evolved to be like this. There must be reasons and there are rules. If the rules change, I'll be happy to use the new recommendations.

[eoncins]

There is a link to a document from the Spanish Federation of People with Disabilities regarding Inclusive Language and in Spanish it is recommended to use the term "persona usuaria/beneficiaria" for "user".

Here is the link to the document:

https://www.cocemfe.es/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/20181010_COCEMFE_Lenguaje_inclusivo.pdf