w3c / wcag21

Repository used during WCAG 2.1 development. New issues, Technique ideas, and comments should be filed at the WCAG repository at https://github.com/w3c/wcag.
https://w3c.github.io/wcag/21/guidelines/
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Plain language (Minimum) #30

Closed lseeman closed 7 years ago

lseeman commented 7 years ago

Current versions of SC and Definitions

alastc commented 7 years ago

Do you think it would be possible to include navigation links? I could see that helping to cover more of the use-case from COGA without needing the complexity of word lists.

mbgower commented 7 years ago

Do you think it would be possible to include navigation links?

Depending on what you are talking about, I would have thought those would more likely be labels, and any techniques could fall under either 2.4.6 or one of the Link Purpose guidelines. I personally would advocate moving the Link Only SC to AA from AAA, and doing an edit on the Understanding doc content. In Context is at level A, so it seems like a simple and obvious way of eliminating the "read more" kibble that litters some sites.

alastc commented 7 years ago

NB: I think people might be missing the actual SC text you're proposing, it's very short and in bold at the top, maybe reformat that to:

Clear Instructions: Instructions describe the topic or purpose (level A/AA)

In the Plain language SC it applies to error messages (that require a response to continue), instructions, labels and navigational elements. I was wondering if it would make sense to have:

Instructions, navigation elements and error messages describe the topic or purpose.

(As labels and heading are already covered).

However, at that stage it feels like we'd want to combine them all. (Headings, labels, instructions, nav elements, error messages...)

mbgower commented 7 years ago

I think it could include error messages, since 3.3.3 Error Suggestion is pretty loose about making the suggestion clear -- and it is a form of instruction.

I'm still waiting to figure out what exactly is covered by navigational elements. Can you provide examples?

alastc commented 7 years ago

I'd say it's the same as WCAG 2.0's Navigation mechanisms, which is to say I'm not sure we have a definition!

Maybe it would be best phrases as "terms within navigation mechanisms" to match.

In terms of examples, anything you would put in <nav> or role="navigation", tabs, menus. The black bar at the top of this page, the tabs at the top etc.

DavidMacDonald commented 7 years ago

Clear Instructions: Instructions describe the topic or purpose.

This makes a new requirement above the proposed SC, it requires authors to add instructions. What I think it is trying to say is:

If instructions are present, they describe the topic of purpose

mbgower commented 7 years ago

I get if we want to hold things up to some higher standard for 2.1 than 2.0, but it is still a wee bit frustrating using the exact wording of an existing SC and having reasons listed for why that text is unacceptable :)

That said, your suggested change is fine. I'm also going to alter the text to make it more relevant to the topic and incorporate Alastair's error message (still trying to figure out how navigational elements isn't covered by labels).

Clear Instructions and Messages: If present, instructions and error messages describe the expected user action or issue.

detlevhfischer commented 7 years ago

I think Mike's is a good stab, and the idea to thereby create a hook to introduce various Coga concepts as Techniques a smart idea. David, I do would not read the proposed SC handle "Clear Instructions" as requiring instructions but as something applying as soon as they are used, so I don't think the If-construct is necessary. As to including navigation / links: It might be difficult to clearly draw the line between navigational elements (sitting in nav constructs) and links in general. 2.4.4 Link purpose seems to cover 'descriptive' for links as that is roughly the same as conveying "link purpose", and that applies also to links in navigational constructs that are often given context implicity by being part of a nav menu. For brevity, that is often a good thing, and asking navigation links to meet 2.4.9 Link Purpose (Link Only) would IMO often lead to bloat and a deteriation of usability.