w3c / wcag21

Repository used during WCAG 2.1 development. New issues, Technique ideas, and comments should be filed at the WCAG repository at https://github.com/w3c/wcag.
https://w3c.github.io/wcag/21/guidelines/
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Plain language (All Content) #42

Closed lseeman closed 7 years ago

lseeman commented 7 years ago

Current versions of SC and Definitions

joshueoconnor commented 7 years ago

Assigned to Jim Smith (@jim-work) https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1

patrickhlauke commented 7 years ago

"words or phrases that are most frequently used" I'm wondering if this isn't too subjective - can different authors and auditors (who may not even be familiar with the field/content, but simply be building/auditing this for somebody else) unambiguously determine this?

joshueoconnor commented 7 years ago

@jim-work Is there a PR ready to go for this?

joshueoconnor commented 7 years ago

Pull request https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/105

detlevhfischer commented 7 years ago

The general recommendation to prefer the 'active' voice over 'passive' seems dubious to me. I think the appropriate choice of mode really depends on the desired expression in context. Passive expressions can be clearer and easier to understand than active ones. For more background from a linguist, I recommend "Fear and Loathing of the English Passive" by Geoffrey K. Pullum http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/passive_loathing.html

jim-work commented 7 years ago

The recommendation to use active voices isn't based on stylistic preferences of linguists, it is based on the needs of the communities listed under Benefits. The recommendation to use an active voice is based on the research cited, for example, Accessible Information Guidelines , where the guidelines have been derived empirically.

detlevhfischer commented 7 years ago

Hi Jim-work Thanks for the link. Glad to see there is no general advice not to use the 'passive voice' in the guidelines you linked to (or I have missed it). I'd still be interested in the kind of method used to back up these guidelines empirically. Is anything on the methodology used available online? Best, Detlev

Sent from phone

Am 10.02.2017 um 01:46 schrieb jim-work notifications@github.com:

The recommendation to use active voices isn't based on stylistic preferences of linguists, it is based on the needs of the communities listed under Benefits. The recommendation to use an active voice is based on the research cited, for example, Accessible Information Guidelines https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/Accessible%20Information%20Guidelines.pdf%281%29.pdf , where the guidelines have been derived empirically.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

johnfoliot commented 7 years ago

​​ Hi Jim,

Thanks for that link, it is an interesting read.

I am struck by "Page 13", which says:

Check the reading level of your sentence

• Microsoft Word can check the readability of sentences

• Readability is a measure of how hard a sentence is to follow

• It is graded from 0, which is easy, to high such as 20, which is very difficult

• For people with aphasia we are aiming for a score of 5 or lower

• Use Flesch-Kincaid to check readability

• You need to add a full-stop at the end of your sentence

• This allows the software to read the sentence

• Go to page 24 for how to set up Flesch-Kincaid

• Use Flesch-Kincaid • Check the Grade Level

• Check you have a number of 5 or lower

• If the number is 6 or higher, you need to make your sentence simpler

However, earlier on this list, it was said that "Reading Level" is not sufficient. Comments were made that we should not be using that as a method of measurement. We now have conflicting guidance.

Which is it? Please help the non-experts understand.

I also think we will get serious resistance if we insist that all web content be written at a Grade 5 reading level. It is hard to achieve consistently. The language does not seem natural to average readers.

This email scores 5.3 in Flesch-Kincaid. It fails the requirement above.

If I asked all content writers to write like this, I think they would refuse.

Thanks.

JF

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 6:46 PM, jim-work notifications@github.com wrote:

The recommendation to use active voices isn't based on stylistic preferences of linguists, it is based on the needs of the communities listed under Benefits. The recommendation to use an active voice is based on the research cited, for example, Accessible Information Guidelines http://url https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/Accessible%20Information% 20Guidelines.pdf%281%29.pdf , where the guidelines have been derived empirically.

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/42#issuecomment-278824303, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABK-cxtMNO2PjdSTyGw6F4k55A4361V2ks5ra7NwgaJpZM4K9IWn .

-- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion

lseeman commented 7 years ago

Reading level helps make it easier to read. This SC makes it easier to understand.The reading level algorithm is unhelpful for the examples given in the benefits section. Hor example we would prefer the phrase " hot or cold" rather then the term "mode" See blurb in the SC) reading level on useful at all in the scope given at the higher conformance levels such as interface components etc were the main issue is understandability. .

Debbie Dahl did exhaustive research on this. I am just giving a short highlight

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn, Twitter

---- On Sat, 11 Feb 2017 17:06:07 +0200 John Foliot<notifications@github.com> wrote ----

​​ Hi Jim,

Thanks for that link, it is an interesting read.

I am struck by "Page 13", which says:

Check the reading level of your sentence

• Microsoft Word can check the readability of sentences

• Readability is a measure of how hard a sentence is to follow

• It is graded from 0, which is easy, to high such as 20, which is very difficult

• For people with aphasia we are aiming for a score of 5 or lower

• Use Flesch-Kincaid to check readability

• You need to add a full-stop at the end of your sentence

• This allows the software to read the sentence

• Go to page 24 for how to set up Flesch-Kincaid

• Use Flesch-Kincaid • Check the Grade Level

• Check you have a number of 5 or lower

• If the number is 6 or higher, you need to make your sentence simpler

However, earlier on this list, it was said that "Reading Level" is not sufficient. Comments were made that we should not be using that as a method of measurement. We now have conflicting guidance.

Which is it? Please help the non-experts understand.

I also think we will get serious resistance if we insist that all web content be written at a Grade 5 reading level. It is hard to achieve consistently. The language does not seem natural to average readers.

This email scores 5.3 in Flesch-Kincaid. It fails the requirement above.

If I asked all content writers to write like this, I think they would refuse.

Thanks.

JF

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 6:46 PM, jim-work <notifications@github.com> wrote:

> The recommendation to use active voices isn't based on stylistic > preferences of linguists, it is based on the needs of the communities > listed under Benefits. > The recommendation to use an active voice is based on the research cited, > for example, Accessible Information Guidelines <http://url&gt; > https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/Accessible%20Information% > 20Guidelines.pdf%281%29.pdf , where the guidelines have been derived > empirically. > > — > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/42#issuecomment-278824303&gt;, or mute > the thread > <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABK-cxtMNO2PjdSTyGw6F4k55A4361V2ks5ra7NwgaJpZM4K9IWn&gt; > . >

-- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com

Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

lseeman commented 7 years ago

Detlev, Can I suggest you read the research module?

All the best

Lisa Seeman

detlevhfischer commented 7 years ago

Hi Lisa, I have read the research module https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-user-research/ While the text gives a good overview of a range of different cognitive disabilities and in turn usage issues including typical use cases, I find little on usability research that explores how successfully these usage issues can be alleviated by the web design recommendations given.

Many recommendations (good heading structure, short sentences, consistency, use of white space etc.) clearly make sense, others such as "Use active rather than passive voice" seem to me to be too general and therefore possibly counter-productive (just one example: 'Mrs Smith was taken to hospital' is simpler and clearer than 'An ambulance took Mrs Smith to hospital' - the first is passive, the second the recommended active voice).

I would also love to see empirical usability studies that investigate the use of plugins for adaptive interfaces that can hide and reveal parts of the interface. As others have noted these may reduce complexity once understood but they also add complexity. My specific request was whether there are empirical usability studies with users with learning and cognitive disabilities (preferably online) that support the advice given to web authors.

Best, Detlev

Sent from phone

Am 12.02.2017 um 12:44 schrieb Lisa Seeman notifications@github.com:

Detlev, Can I suggest you read the research module?

All the best

Lisa Seeman

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

jspellman commented 7 years ago

This proposal is difficult to measure and to implement. I recommend looking at using reading level. It isn't perfect, but it addresses most of the user needs identified, especially when paired with existing Technique G153. Reading level has international support, it has automated tests, and it has a variety of formulas (Flesh-Kincaid is the oldest and best known, there are many others.) The existing WCAG AAA 3.1.5 could be better adapted (and revised for clarity) to apply to all content.

I changed the handle to provide a more clear progression with the other suggestions for revision to the Plain Language success criteria proposals: Issue 30 - Understandable Labels, and Issue 41: Understandable Instructions.

Proposed revision: Understandable Content: Blocks of text either: (AAA)

[links to WCAG’s definitions of lower secondary education and blocks of text]