March Meeting Agenda and Scheduling

[Westbrook]

For those of you who would like to take part in the March meeting of the Web Components Community Group, please share your availability here as we work to schedule the right day/time to gather. Don't forget, all WCCG events are listed on this calendar. 📆

The earlier in the month that we can meet, the more time we have for breakouts (like these) before we meet with implementors in April.

Some topics for conversation may come directly from the https://github.com/WICG/webcomponents/issues/1031#issuecomment-1885640485 that were gathered at the Q1 Face-to-face with implementors that happened this week. Anyone interested in supporting the completion of the Action Items should speak up below or on Discord. 🗒️

Please share your thoughts below as to subjects that you'd like to cover during the February meeting! 🙇🏼

[trusktr]

s/February/March :)

[thescientist13]

Made an issue for seeing if there is any interest in a community spec'd / maintained DOM shim for SSR use cases - https://github.com/webcomponents-cg/community-protocols/issues/55

[Westbrook]

Current agenda:

• Reminder: breakouts are happening everywhere, join in the conversation!
• Community Protocols:
  • SSR protocol, both @thescientist13 and @EisenbergEffect are interested in pushing something here
  • defer-hydration, lots of good conversation, what's the most productive path forward
  • slottable-request, we're investing in research into this at Adobe, what would the community like to be comfortable with it graduating to "Draft" status
  • Other administrivia of protocols at large.
• April Face-to-face
  • appropriate response to January action items
  • new/expanded topics we might want to bring to implementors

Hop into the comments below to add more topics!

[Westbrook]

Meeting set:

WCCG: March Meeting Monday, March 11 · 12:00 – 1:00pm Time zone: America/New_York Google Meet joining info Video call link: https://meet.google.com/jdj-bveo-zxn

Don't forget that all events are tracking in this calendar and discussed in Discord.

[Westbrook]

Thanks for a lively conversation on all subjects at today's monthly meeting. It's exciting to see more and more invested voices joining the conversation each month. Don't forget to bring your friends next time to continue to dig deeper on so many valuable topics!

If you missed the meeting, you can read the meeting notes to catch up.

Action items for the day:

• there are lots of breakouts coming up, so don't miss the conversation in Discord
  • share your availability for DSD Prototype Sharing today, before the invite goes out tomorrow morning
  • Open Styling meeting available issue coming soon!
• SSR Protocol: @thescientist13 to continue the conversation in the issue. There might be two types of protocols to come out of this: a DOM shim and an SSR protocol
• defer-hydration: more investigation is needed on this, but the best way to unlock that is to move this protocol to "Proposal" status, the first status of the project. We will be making that transition in 2 weeks, so get any blocking concepts into the PR discussion, soon.
• slottable-request: same as above. Moving something to "Proposal" is just the beginning of the discussion and should allow for more focused and productive conversation on specific parts of each protocol.
• We're looking at lowering the barrier to Community Protocols becoming "Proposals" so we can raise the bar for later statuses in the project. April's monthly meeting will target a definitive path forward on this as we begin to expand an understanding of how protocols work their way through the various status levels.

Meeting chat hidden within...

You 11:03 AM https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents-cg/issues/83 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jOz2Mu8y49j81WPE7__sHkyoUQey6X09JNiYmEh4b1I/edit#heading=h.o7ktx8ibksxi Jesse Jurman 11:05 AM Please feel free to type over me / fix / add things! You 11:06 AM https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents-cg/issues/84 Jared W 11:07 AM apologies, hoping some network issues clear up for me You 11:07 AM https://discord.gg/KSbbpeyfnE Owen Buckley 11:09 AM it's like ocean's eleven where they just loop a frame on the cameras You 11:10 AM Current issue for discussion: https://github.com/webcomponents-cg/community-protocols/issues/55 You 11:12 AM Reminder: raising hands to join the queue is a great way to know who would like to discuss the topic as hand! Owen Buckley 11:13 AM also serverless and edge environments, where a full browser like Puppeteer would seem like overkill Brian LeRoux 11:17 AM it might be worth asking if this is the right way to server render. we have enhance running in any backend now because we deliberately sides step implementing a bunch of the DOM which would only be noops anyhow. You 11:18 AM Would love to hear a very high level of what that looks like in the discussion Brian. Rob Eisenberg 11:18 AM The main thing I need as a server implementor, is a way to hand off to a 3rd party component and have it render within my system. In a sense, I don't care what it's base class. For my own components, I have a specifically designed server base class. Nolan Lawson 11:19 AM Steve: we did a similar thing, no JSDOM on our side fyi Jared W 11:20 AM having audio issues on Dave's mic Owen Buckley 11:21 AM @Dave WCC for example can support both Light DOM and (Declarative) Shadow DOM. It's just if the developer chooses to use Rob Eisenberg 11:21 AM Streaming is pretty important. So, it's not render to string most of the time. Brian LeRoux 11:21 AM Lit is all DSD and a bunch of meaningful comments Nolan Lawson 11:22 AM Brian: Enhance doesn't generate s correct? Brian LeRoux 11:22 AM @nolan, no it can Sasha Firsov 11:22 AM streams fits well in DCE in pure declarative form Brian LeRoux 11:23 AM thats called Progressive Enhancement Owen Buckley 11:26 AM hydro active Brian LeRoux 11:26 AM its really easy to build out from PE to a fullying client rendered thing. its nearly impossible to go the other direction. Steve Orvell 11:27 AM It's fair that the Lit system first and foremost set out to tackle rendering of otherwise client focused components on the server. These are elements that render their own DOM to a shadowRoot... Jared W 11:29 AM One example of thinking required here is that JS template literals are great for libraries like Lit where you can essentially go the isomorphic route, render the "same" on client or server…but for split components and support for other server-side languages, you must have a different method of defining component templates and handling the handoff between a server-rendered wad of HTML, and the JS which then resumes (maybe not even hydrates in the classical sense!) Steve Orvell 11:30 AM Do you need a community protocol for use cases other than "render client focused components on the server" ? Nolan Lawson 11:30 AM LWC also went the route of isomorphic, like Lit... I can see the case for avoiding the DOM APIs entirely, but at that point aren't we just building a templating engine? Sasha Firsov 11:30 AM state serialization for hydration . Use cases SSR, off-load, shared across sessions state, UX-prepared state... Brian LeRoux 11:30 AM depends on whether you resuse those templates on the client Owen Buckley 11:30 AM For example, WCC has a DOM Shim, but its API exposes your classic renderToString DX Brian LeRoux 11:31 AM *reuse Steve Orvell 11:32 AM Lit has integrations with things like Next where the integration point is just "give me your HTML please" Brian LeRoux 11:37 AM https://enhance.dev/docs/conventions/components You 11:39 AM ...closing the queue for this topic... Rob Eisenberg 11:43 AM We're in a sort of strange in-between time with, definitely. You 11:43 AM https://github.com/webcomponents-cg/community-protocols/pull/15/files Brian LeRoux 11:44 AM SHIP IT 😂 You 11:46 AM https://github.com/webcomponents-cg/community-protocols/pull/45 Nolan Lawson 11:49 AM Steve: we (LWC) implemented our own Vue-style scoped slots for the same reason... slottable-request seems potentially a workable replacement tho Steve Orvell 11:50 AM Cool, it'd be great to try to align on... since it's a potentially much richer api... Owen Buckley 11:54 AM https://github.com/webcomponents-cg/community-protocols?tab=readme-ov-file#status Brian LeRoux 11:54 AM gotta bounce: thx all