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wakystuf / ESG-Mod

An Endless Space 2 balance and overhaul mod
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Battle Tactics Effects Rework - Part 1 #301

Closed Doruk-Coskun closed 3 years ago

Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago

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Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago

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Arpharnator commented 3 years ago

image Allows you to get up to 70% dmg on ship from 20% at full manpower.

Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago

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wakystuf commented 3 years ago

First, this whole concept is great; it should make a bunch of the previously useless battle tactics way more relevant.

Several questions: 1) Team Spirit: this is doubling whatever morale bonuses (ex: hero, flotilla flanking, etc) already exist, correct? If there are no morale bonuses, it doesn't do anything? 2) Needs of the Many: Without this, the damage bonus is basically 20% [Current Ship MP]/[Max Ship MP], and then it's becoming 70% [Current Ship MP]/[Max Ship MP], correct? 3) Anti-Shrapnel Hull and Radiation Shield: Do these apply the Hull/Shield Absorption to crew defense from both types of weapons? For example, if ship Hull Absorption is 50%, and the attacker has beams that kill 10 crew per hit, would it then be only 5 crew killed per hit (even though normally beams have high Hull Penetration)? 4) Temporal Drag: What effect, if any, does this have on BEB? How (if at all) does it stack with EMP modules? 5) Diplomatic Immunity: I assume "Damage Absorption" means that it doubles both Hull Absorption and Shield Absorption? 6) Collateral damage: How does the collateral damage part of the calculation work? Is it only a buff to weapons (ex: quadrinix lasers, BEB) that already inflict collateral damage? Is it correct that the "breakeven" point is basically 4 enemy ships in the flotilla (0.7 x (1+15%x3)) = 101.5%? 7) Hard Target and Shield Wall: are these defense bonuses applied to Evasion, Absorption, or something else? 8) Soft Targets: How is "least dangerous" evaluated? Is it based on attack power? Also, does this enable non-Focus ships to focus fire on the "least dangerous" target(s)? 9) For the Cause: Is this calculated ship-by-ship or for the fleet as a whole? For example, if there are 3 carriers, each with 16 squadrons, then does each squadron get 66% defense (1-0.5+0.16) or 98% defense (1-0.5+0.48)? 10) Hopeless: Does this mean that all morale bonuses are effectively multiplied by -0.5? (But if there are no morale bonuses, then no penalty)?

wakystuf commented 3 years ago

Oh, and one other one: what happens if one side plays Team Spirit and the other plays Hopeless? Does that mean that the one playing Team Spirit effectively gets Morale x 2 x -0.5 = -1 x Morale?

wakystuf commented 3 years ago

I think this one is still open

Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago
  1. Yes exactly.

Oh, and one other one: what happens if one side plays Team Spirit and the other plays Hopeless? Does that mean that the one playing Team Spirit effectively gets Morale x 2 x -0.5 = -1 x Morale?

Yes exactly.

  1. Yes, exactly.
  2. Anti-Shrapnel Hull and Radiation Shield don't exist anymore. Rather than them, there is now the Crew Defense Protocol tactic.
  3. I'm not exactly sure what effect it has. In theory, it should increase the cooldown of it too which in return makes it 60 seconds of cool down and BEB can only be shot twice in total during the battle.
  4. Diplomatic Immunity is removed. We wanted to make it so that if you pay 500 Influence per your fleets CP the battle did not happen but there is a problem with battle tactics requiring a cost. The same problem also existed with the By Any Means tactic which is also removed.
  5. It makes it so that every weapon module has splash too so a percentage of the damage dealt is also dealt to the whole enemy flotilla.
  6. They added on top of the defense value of the ship IIRC they were very powerful and wacky due to the way damage is calculated so they are removed too.
  7. The targeting Priority of the ships is reversed. So let's say an attacker targets the coordinator then attacker, with this tactic it targets the attacker first then the coordinator.
  8. I didn't touch any squadron related tactic yet since at that time squadrons were problematic and they still kind of are. I don't really know how that tactic works tbh.
  9. Like Team Spirit, that is the case yes.
Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago

@wakystuf Also keep in mind the screenshots you see here are the vanilla tactics. Reworked versions of them are not listed here, you can check them in game

wakystuf commented 3 years ago

OK, this is now documented, for the most part. A couple clarifications: 1) These tactics also changed, even though they are not screenshotted above, right?

Doruk-Coskun commented 3 years ago

@wakystuf

  1. Yes exactly.
  2. Shield absorption is capped at 100% then there is shield penetration value of the weapon. Power to Shields just makes it so that penetration is calculated based on 100% shield absorption rather than 50 70 or 80% you would get from shield defense modules absorption value
wakystuf commented 3 years ago

Great, thanks. Documented.