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ways2read / InDesignA11Y

Issue tracking improvements in InDesign for better accessible EPUB export
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MathML #24

Open ways2read opened 2 years ago

ways2read commented 2 years ago

Knowledge base reference: http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/html/mathml.html

LauraB7 commented 1 year ago

User story: "As an end user I can hear/read math with my screen reader/braille display and explore it so I can understand the publications used on my course."

puchchi commented 1 year ago

Hello, we have some questions about this request. Please find them listed below.

  1. Are these mathematical equations saved as live text or svg/eps in the InDesign document? If it's svg, can we not use Object Export Option Dialog to add alt text?
  2. Are these mathematical equation are exported as MathML format or img tag in EPUB from InDesign?
gregoriopellegrino commented 1 year ago
  1. Are these mathematical equations saved as live text or svg/eps in the InDesign document?

Content creators use different software outside of InDesign to create the formulas (MathMagic, MathTools, JMathEdit, etc.). In most cases these software export a vector image (optimized for printing) and can embed within the vector image the MathML code, or so can get it from the software itself.

If it's svg, can we not use Object Export Option Dialog to add alt text?

It is not a matter of alt text: for users, the best experience would be to have the formula in MathML, so they can navigate it freely with assistive technologies.

  1. Are these mathematical equation are exported as MathML format or img tag in EPUB from InDesign?

Currently, these formulas imported as vector images are exported as raster images. For accessibility there is the requirement to instead export the EPUB with the formula as MathML.

puchchi commented 1 year ago

As we are using third party plugin to add math equation, which add math equation as svg in InDesign document. Currently this svg file will be exported as img tag in EPUB. But for accessibility, we want this img tag to be converted into proper MathML tag structure. It's not possible for ID to convert math formula based svg to MathML format while exporting EPUB, because ID have no information about the math formula in svg file.

gregoriopellegrino commented 1 year ago

We understand your position, and at the same time we think that ultimately, the goal should be to find a positive, problem-solving approach to address the issue and ensure accessibility for all users.

There may to be several suggestions to address the issue of adding math equations as SVG in InDesign and converting them to proper MathML tag structure in EPUB for accessibility.

One suggestion is to allow plugins that handle formulas to be able to include MathML when exporting the EPUB, for example through the use of hooks or APIs. Another option is to include the MathML directly in the vectorial image file (normally publishers use EPS or AI instead of SVG) from the third-party tool if that is possible, so that ID could export an image for PDF and MathML for EPUB.

If it helps we can have a call with some publishers to present their workflows and explore possible solutions.

raman211 commented 3 weeks ago

@gregoriopellegrino @jonaslil @ways2read @LauraB7 @gilbertconsult This is Ramanjulu from Adobe. As discussed in our meeting on October 1st week, now with the MathML support in the InDesign 20.0 release, Please share the list of accessibility issues that you are seeing here. CC: @NawneetG @Racmathu

ways2read commented 1 week ago

The recent progress in supporting MathML in InDesign is very encouraging and paves the way for export of accessible math expressions in EPUB.

The default EPUB export option for MathML should be plain MathML as described in MathML - Accessible Publishing Knowledge Base and Technique 1 in Best Practices for Authoring MathML in EPUB.

Visual rendering of MathML is supported in most EPUB reading systems today and requested by the Kindle platform. Expressions encoded with MathML can be read and explored by screen reader users using speech or braille. MathML means a better experience for people with print disabilities who rely on visual adjustments such as increasing the text size and changing the colors.

The option for SVG output should be a secondary possibility in the export options dialog. The expert group is developing the specification for how this export should be done and will post when it is ready.