Closed jensimmons closed 7 months ago
Can the effect of text-transform: full-size-kana
also be achieved using font-variant-east-asian: ruby
?
Does anyone have feedback from CJK language users that text-transform: full-width
is important?
cc @kojiishi
I don't have strong developer signals for this API. @jensimmons do you have anything you can share?
From our article about Safari 17.0:
Safari 17.0 adds support for text-transform: full-width and text-transform: full-size-kana.
The full-width value transforms all the characters in your text to be “full-width” — to match the width of characters defined in an East Asian script like Chinese, Japanese, or Korean (CJK). It’s especially useful when typesetting vertical text or wanting to provide consistency in sizing when mixing CJK with Latin or other scripts.
The full-size-kana value transforms the size of small Kana characters in Japanese to look like their full-size counterparts — a technique sometimes used to make ruby text more legible at small sizes.
Safari 17.0 also adds support for declaring more than one text-transform value, so that these values can be combined. For example text-transform: uppercase full-width will transform characters in a Latin script to be both all capital letters and the same width as the CJK characters in the font.
font-variant-east-asian: ruby
is quite different. From MDN:
This keyword forces the use of special glyphs for ruby characters. As these are usually smaller, font creators often designs specific forms, usually slightly bolder to improve the contrast. This keyword corresponds to the OpenType values ruby.
Thank you @jensimmons, right, full-width
and full-size-kana
are for different purposes. Let me clarify our question a bit more.
For full-size-kana
, as the Safari article says, they're for the same purposes, they are both "to make ruby text more legible at small sizes." Some font experts we talked to say font-variant-east-asian: ruby
is more correct, so it's interoperable. We're interested in what cases text-transform: full-size-kana
is more useful than font-variant-east-asian: ruby
and how it's used.
For full-width
, the use case in the Safari article looks clear, thanks. Do you have any any data or feedback from authors you can share about in what cases they want "consistency in sizing"? The Unicode Standard Chapter 18 says:
These characters are included in the Unicode Standard for compatibility with older standards.
If it's used for making Latin characters in vertical flow upright, we have text-orientation: upright
and it's interoperable. Do you have any data or feedback indicating full-size-kana
is still important?
Thank you for proposing text-transform: full-size-kana & text-transform: full-width for inclusion in Interop 2024.
We wanted to let you know that this proposal was not selected to be part of Interop 2024. This is because we got many more proposals than we could include in this year's project. Note that individual vendors may nevertheless choose to advance work in this area during the forthcoming year. We would welcome this proposal being resubmitted again next year, if necessary.
For an overview of our process, see proposal selection. Thank you again for contributing to Interop 2024!
Posted on behalf of the Interop team.
Description
text-transform: full-width
transforms all the characters in the text to be “full-width” — to match the width of characters defined in an East Asian script like Chinese, Japanese, or Korean (CJK). It’s especially useful when typesetting vertical text or wanting to provide consistency in sizing when mixing CJK with Latin or other scripts.text-transform: full-size-kana
transforms the size of small Kana characters in Japanese to look like their full-size counterparts — a technique sometimes used to make ruby text more legible at small sizes.Also having support for declaring more than one text-transform value is important, so that these values can be combined. For example
text-transform: uppercase full-width
will transform characters in a Latin script to be both all capital letters and the same width as the CJK characters in the font.Specification
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/#text-transform-property
Open Issues
This is the only open issue. Should not affect this proposal: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8442
Tests
https://wpt.fyi/results/css/css-text/text-transform?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=full-size-kana
https://wpt.fyi/results/css/css-text/text-transform?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=fullwidth
Current Implementations
Standards Positions
No response
Browser bug reports
No response
Developer discussions
No response
Polls & Surveys
Most polls and surveys we conduct are in English, or are promoted within a North American & European audience. These two values affect CJK typesetting. Let's not continue biasing Latin scripts over others.
Existing Usage
No response
Workarounds
No response
Accessibility Impact
Poorly spaced text can be harder to read and understand.
Privacy Impact
There is no privacy impact.
Other
No response