www.spectrum.net - see bug description

[BenFenner]

URL: https://www.spectrum.net/login

Browser / Version: Pale Moon 30.0.1 Operating System: Windows 7 Tested Another Browser: Yes Internet Explorer

Problem type: Something else Description: Bogus useragent sniffing. Steps to Reproduce: The login page for Spectrum (ISP) uses misguided user-agent sniffing to incorrectly determine browser capability, and recommends the use of Chromium (or Chromium clone) browsers only.

View the screenshot

Browser Configuration

• None

From webcompat.com with ❤️

[softvision-raul-bucata]

@BenFenner The issue has been moved to the relevant project. Please see: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=28207 for future updates and workarounds.

Closing this as MOVED.

[qa_16/2022]

[Ben-Fenner]

Why was the issued moved to the Pale Moon forum? It is not an issue with Pale Moon. It is an issue with Spectrum.

[softvision-raul-bucata]

@BenFenner The issue is reproducible only when using Pale Moon, it is not reproducible using other browsers. Therefore, the issue is a compatibility issue regarding the Pale Moon browser. Firefox works as expected, so does Chrome, Edge, Opera etc. An explanation was given here: https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/103137 as to why the issue was moved.

[inv_17/2022]

[Ben-Fenner]

I understand why you would come to that conclusion, but that logic is flawed. Just because the issue only exists in Pale Moon, does not mean the problem is with Pale Moon. The web site is effectively targeting Pale Moon with a message that is not appropriate. The web site works otherwise perfectly in Pale Moon, other than this erroneous compatibility message. How do you expect the Pale Moon development team to fix a problem like this? There is absolutely nothing they can do. The problem is with the web site not being fully compatible with a standards-compliant browser simply because the web site developers have a short, hard-coded list of browsers they are aware of. This issue is fixed by the web site developers supporting a wider range of modern browsers and removing arbitrary error messages singling out browsers. Is this not exactly what this webcompat project is designed to facilitate?

[softvision-raul-bucata]

@BenFenner If the issue is not happening on other browsers, how can it be a problem with the website? It is a compatibility issue because the page is targeting the Pale Moon browser by using agent user sniffing. If the user agent is changed, the issue does not reproduce. The team from Pale Moon browser should contact them to address this issue (if they see fit).

Yes, this project is designed to facilitate the above-stated facts by yourself, but this project focuses on collaboration. Engineers from different browser vendors are collaborating on this project, whilst working on their projects. We do not have all the browser vendors' team members collaborate here, unfortunately, so we can only do as much as we can.So if an issue arises for a specific browser, and there is no one on board from that browser, we are kind of stuck here, that is why we are redirecting the issue to a specific place other than webcompat (if available) If the browser vendor team members are part of this project or are willing to collaborate, we are more than happy to do that. For example, at the moment the browser vendors willing to collaborate are very few in number. We are actively working in bringing them on board, so we are more than happy to do that. It is not our fault that only a few are willing to collaborate. Our aim is to get everyone on board, but we can not do the work for everyone.

[Ben-Fenner]

If the issue is not happening on other browsers, how can it be a problem with the website?

Are you serious? Here's how:

if (browser.name != 'Chrome' && browser.name != 'Firefox' && browser.name != 'Edge' && browser.name != 'Opera')
  display_wrong_browser_message()
end

No doubt the psuedo-code above is nearly identical to what the web site is actually doing. That is a problem with the web site.

The team from Pale Moon browser should contact them to address this issue (if they see fit).

Sure, they should do that. But also shouldn't this team? Is that not part of what you do here? Contact web site developers (if possible) and urge them to make their site more compatible with modern browsers? If that is not something your team ever does, I apologize. I got the wrong impression.

[softvision-raul-bucata]

@karlcow Could you please provide more context on how and what this project aims to do?

[softvision-raul-bucata]

The team from Pale Moon browser should contact them to address this issue (if they see fit).

Sure, they should do that. But also shouldn't this team? Is that not part of what you do here? Contact web site developers (if possible) and urge them to make their site more compatible with modern browsers? If that is not something your team ever does, I apologize. I got the wrong impression.

@BenFenner Various team members are representing a browser vendor, not all browser vendors, so they can not investigate/diagnose/contact a page for another browser vendor, if that makes sense. If we have members from the said browser on the project, then the issue gets diagnosed by them. If not, we signal the issue where the browser vendor has such a place (outside of this project), and hopefully in the near future they will be part of this project, so that they can diagnose the issue directly here.

[Ben-Fenner]

I understand now.

If I have one last thing to say, it is that the main page for this project and its surface-level marketing paints a completely different picture than what is actually going on behind the scenes. Not only that, it seems to be by design. I take no responsibility for how I was mislead about this project.

[softvision-raul-bucata]

If the issue is not happening on other browsers, how can it be a problem with the website?

Are you serious? Here's how:

if (browser.name != 'Chrome' && browser.name != 'Firefox' && browser.name != 'Edge' && browser.name != 'Opera')
  display_wrong_browser_message
end

No doubt the psuedo-code above is nearly identical to what the web site is actually doing. That is a problem with the web site.

My apologies, here I was referring to problem, as a bug. Since they are doing User Agent Sniffing, it's their intended behavior to include just a few browsers on the list, and from our point of view, only a representative of Pale Moon or other interested browser representative can contact them regarding this issue, to include other browsers in the list or to change the code.

I am sorry you feel that you have been misled, but if only a very few browser vendors are interested in this project, there isn't much we can do about that.

[Ben-Fenner]

if only a very few browser vendors are interested in this project, there isn't much we can do about that.

No, there's not much you can do about exactly that. But I reject the implication. You're saying that no developer from browser A would ever feel compelled to advocate for a user of browser B under the umbrella of compatibility. That is absurd, and goes against this project's goals. There will be no compatible web with that thinking.

This is the second time you've explained how you feel browser devs should only have to care about their own users, and not a compatible web. You don't need to explain it again. I understood the first time.

[karlcow]

@Ben-Fenner I think what @softvision-raul-bucata was trying to say is that the webcompat project is indeed cross-browser. Some people are participating on a volunteer basis like you do and this is super appreciated. And some people are paid by browser companies. @softvision-raul-bucata @softvision-oana-arbuzov have the delicate tasks to do the triage of incoming bugs for all browsers (but paid by Mozilla to do so). And they try to the best of their knowledge to do the right thing. The project receives a lot of bugs every week. Once the triage is done we do diagnosis. Mozilla is very active on the project and diagnose the Firefox bug. Google is mildly active. etc. We can't handle the bugs for everyone all the time. It takes time and effort.

When reporting an issue if you know the source of the issue, helping with the diagnosis is really appreciated it helps to take care of the bugs in the most appropriate way, and to avoid when it's not triaged at the right place or in the right component.

We all try to do our best here.

Love is all we need. 😉

[Ben-Fenner]

I know where the source of the issue is. The source of the issue is Spectrum.net Closing this ticket, and "moving" it to the Pale Moon forum seems like the wrong course of action.

You're basically telling the Pale Moon team that a web site is not web compatible, but you don't care and will not help because it works on "your" browser. That "I got mine, Jack" attitude is all I'm seeing here. This is now the 3rd time someone on this project has explained this situation to me. I didn't need a 2nd explanation, and here I am with a 3rd. I get it. It is every person for themselves. There is no cooperation here, and no advocacy for any browser other than your own. You couldn't have made that clearer.