Alive

[SbSpider]

Is this project still alive?

[cbbcbail]

Nope. :(

[kyletorpey]

It actually is still alive. Javier and Alex have simply been busy with real life and jobs, and they've been the two main driving forces when it comes to code and the white paper.

On July 27, 2014 5:31:22 PM EDT, cbbcbail notifications@github.com wrote:

Nope. :(

---

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50286466

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[SbSpider]

I see. Well, in their absence, why hasn't anyone taken up the mantle? I mean, I am sure that they wouldn't have been adverse to it, as without it, I doubt that this could be completed, even though it was a great idea. We all have real life - I myself - but that shouldn't hinder this.

[kyletorpey]

I'm not sure. There is one other person who Alex has been explaining the basics to, but there simply hasn't been much help offered outside of that. There are others who aren't willing to help out until there is some form of crowd funding project. I think using Mike Hearn's Lighthouse may be a good option for bootstrapping future development.

On July 27, 2014 5:36:04 PM EDT, SbSpider notifications@github.com wrote:

I see. Well, in their absence, why hasn't anyone taken up the mantle? I mean, I am sure that they wouldn't have been adverse to it, as without it, I doubt that this could be completed, even though it was a great idea. We all have real life - I myself - but that shouldn't hinder this.

---

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50286604

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[SbSpider]

I myself was willing to help, regardless of funding, but didn't care much for Javier's attitude towards me, so left. I do still hope that this project succeeds, however.

[cbbcbail]

They were adverse to me and several others helping out in their place. I was removed from several groups after disagreeing with Javier as were others. SbSpider, I am now helping with Storj and it is great! What a different attitude! The project is going well and we are doing a crowd fund right now, Check it out!

[kyletorpey]

Is Storj just doing cloud storage or do they also wish to create decentralized databases for dapps?

On July 27, 2014 6:02:21 PM EDT, cbbcbail notifications@github.com wrote:

They were adverse to me and several others helping out in their place. I was removed from several groups after disagreeing with Javier as were others. SbSpider, I am now helping with Storj and it is great! What a different attitude! The project is going well and we are doing a crowd fund right now, Check it out!

---

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50287308

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[cbbcbail]

We're starting with just providing cloud-storage applications (DriveMiner and Metadisk) these apps will allow people to rent out storage space or buy storage space respectively. In the future we will expand the API and use the same storage network to other applications via sockets in the API.

[SbSpider]

Storj? What's he doing? Is that the guy who kind of tried to insert himself into the project a while before? If so, then his idea's did seem a bit more inline ....

I decided to remove myself, as I didn't see the reason in carrying on under such a negative atmosphere

[cbbcbail]

Storj is a project similar to what Bitcloud wanted to be. It is much more positive and successful however: http://storj.io/index.html

I don't know what your'e talking about as far as a person. I alsa was sick of the negative environment in Bitcloud. Story is nothing but positivity! :)

[SbSpider]

Yeah, negative is the right word. I mean, open source fosters the sharing of ideas and innovation - what Javier wanted seemed to be locking everyone down into his way of doing things, and really pissing of the people who didn't do it that way.

[kyletorpey]

I can't really speak to the negativity of Bitcloud since I haven't really noticed anything like that. I would also say that Storj is closer to Maidsafe in what they are trying to do due to their usage of a token system. Having said that, I notice they also like the idea of becoming a sidechain in the future. Anyway, wish nothing but success for storj. Doesn't really matter which project creates a more decentralized Internet as long as it happens.

On July 27, 2014 7:33:15 PM EDT, cbbcbail notifications@github.com wrote:

Storj is a project similar to what Bitcloud wanted to be. It is much more positive and successful however: http://storj.io/index.html

I don't know what your'e talking about as far as a person. I alsa was sick of the negative environment in Bitcloud. Story is nothing but positivity! :)

---

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50289616

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[SbSpider]

I agree on the decentralized statement. However, the negativity was there, which is why I think a number of the people left...

I wish all the best for bitcloud as well, so long as Javier changes his attitude eventually ...

[NWPlayer123]

Yeah, i just kinda faded away and lost interest, not just in Bitcloud, but the whole 9 yards. TBH that's what usually happens when I start/join a project, I usually get bored and just stop and move on to something more interesting. I'll probably still be lurking though.

[JaviLib]

You were removed after insulting and creating a great disrupt and
disrecpect in the group.
You have never done anything for the project. Nothing at all.El 28/07/14 a las #4, cbbcbail
  escribió:

  They were adverse to me and several others helping out in their
    place. I was removed from several groups after disagreeing with
    Javier as were others. SbSpider, I am now helping with Storj and
    it is great! What a different attitude! The project is going
    well and we are doing a crowd fund right now, Check it out!
  —
    Reply to this email directly or view
      it on GitHub.

[SbSpider]

Javier - actually, if I remember correctly, I removed MYSELF from the group - I was admin for most of the resources that the project had, such as the Wiki, github, Facebook.

Also, I don't think stating that "you have never done anything for the project" to cbbcbail isn't exactly what you should be doing as a leader - this is open source, and everyone helps as much as they can or are able to.

[JaviLib]

I agree... but this happens with any opensource project.
I have realized that when there is no money in the middle, only very
few people really participate in open source projects. At the end,
only founders that have the time continue to program.
For example, how many people have really helped during the good
months of Bitcloud?
Surprisingly, people not doing absolutely nothing, like cbcbail and
Sbspider, wanted to change everything. I had to decide between
wasting the project to the trolls or just pause it until the people
really working (which are really only a few) can do more.
Don't worry, the project is very alive. It is just in stand by
because the main programmers do have work to do in their lifes.
Remember that for example Open Transactions and Maidsafe is there
for years.
Meanwhile, there is some work to do. Gnostications just uploaded
some videos to youtube and it would be interesting to add them to
the main page of Bitcloud. El 28/07/14 a las #4, NWPlayer123
  escribió:

  Yeah, i just kinda faded away and lost interest, not just in
    Bitcloud, but the whole 9 yards. TBH that's what usually happens
    when I start/join a project, I usually get bored and just stop
    and move on to something more interesting. I'll probably still
    be lurking though.
  —
    Reply to this email directly or view
      it on GitHub.

[SbSpider]

I would suggest that you not slander what I did by saying that I was "trolling" - I joined on quite early, and helped with the admin things such as the Wiki or Facebook and G+. I wanted to do a hell of a lot more, but you were stringent on your way of doings things, and kept on telling me that I "am too young, and should sit back and learn from what people are doing".

[gnostication]

I have to weigh in to this chain.

SbSpider:

You did remove yourself from the project, but you were definitely pushed out by Javier and also by the very disruption you created. When you left, Javier and I were both very glad because your lack of maturity and over-inflated ego had no place in this project. Disruption is most definitely not needed, and even in this very chain you have managed to stir up more trouble. This is not productive.

In truth, your disruption and the drama that accompanied it resulted in both Javier and I quickly growing more burnt out than we could handle. You may have been around from early on, but I don't know anything you contributed. You didn't put the web site together. You were focused on a dev/build environment, as if that was even needed. But you don't have experience to know that the most effective methodology requires prototyping and testing early and often. Being concerned with tertiary tools shows a lack of understanding that the code produced rules open source far more than the tools and/or environment used. This isn't enterprise SDLC, it's open source.

To the group:

This is what we generally have to work with. Almost no one other than Javier has coded. For example, another person that claimed desire to help (Matthew) said he would work on an interface to the nodepool. I emailed him June 18 to work with him on the interface - to answer questions and put him on task as to how it could be done - and never heard from him again. I gave him the option of doing it in any language he wanted, but it appears that he either couldn't code or just completely lost interest as soon as work was presented.

There appears to be a great deal of interest and almost zero contribution. The most contribution we received was in putting the web site together. With regards to the actual platform, anyone capable of coding seems to either have no time or only be interested in providing advice and suggestions. Those suggestions and inputs are certainly helpful and appreciated, but it doesn't result in progress.

As a result, Javier and I have decided to focus more on personal activities even as we do continue to work on the project in the background to reboot it back to a more active status, with lessons learned about who actual contributors are and how to prevent disruptions/drama. We are establishing our own internal pace, and communicating among ourselves because no one else seems to contribute anyway.

Personally, I have been miserable at my job (that actually pays bills), so I've been applying to 5-10 new positions per week. Anyone who has looked for an upper-level technical position know that a job-hunt can be a job in itself. I took Friday off for an interview, as an example. This focus on my personal well-being certainly has taken me away from the work I can contribute to this project, and slowed my pace, but I am still contributing. Javier may be in the same or similar situation.

Although I have no video editing experience, I managed to put together two videos of the project presentations based on a slide deck and audio recordings that Javier produced months ago. I used only open source tools. (The "second" presentation will have to be recorded again for better image quality.) This took days worth of work, spread out over weeks time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j-UKU8JZ4o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYDHsovGHOo

(The "first" presentation was produced by Kyle, and I don't currently have that link.)

Lately, I have been trying to complete a Software Design Document that I began months ago and re-work the project plan to be more flexible and realistic (especially considering a general lack of contribution) considering our sparse resources. The reason I am focusing on these things is that a common block among prospective contributors seems to be a lack of understanding of the Bitcloud architecture/design. I want to eliminate that blockage by providing sufficient documentation such that anyone may assist to produce a proof of concept for further versions/milestones.

Once that is done, I will code. Whether Javier or anyone else can or not, I will continue. To be fair, I am positive that Javier will pick up coding again once someone (anyone) else is there to work with him.

Moving forward:

The project will continue. Only, it will continue at our own pace and according to our plan/operations. I would love for more people to be involved, and Javier and I both would readily make the activities more transparent, but there is currently no point since it has thus far failed to result in any substantial external contributions. The community appears to mostly be a group of interested parties, not actual contributors.

If anyone would like to contribute, I suggest you take time to understand the general architecture, then work with the core design team (including Javier and others) to zero-in on a component that you want to code.

{I still have to work with one of Javier's contacts to try and develop an interface to the nodepool - any interface - but job hunting kept me from reaching out to him last week. (An interface will allow us to have test-driven development.) Jon from Norway also began the process of learning the design/architecture, but thus far hasn't coded as he indicated he would be busy for the next week or so.}

I believe most of us appreciate the Storj and MaidSafe (and others, e.g., ethereum, etc.) groups for the bleeding-edge developments they move forward with. However, I think there is also a shared belief within the Bitcloud core that those projects are not sustainable.

For example, MaidSafe relies upon an appcoin (SafeCoin) infrastructure. Bitcloud is currency agnostic, and this is actually a strong advantage to the platform, leaving it open and flexible for any application. Storj is a fantastic idea, but relies on a blockchain infrastructure. Blockchains are ingenious mechanisms for trustless public transaction ledgers. Storage of data? No so much.

Bitcloud's architecture will allow it to be alive - beyond any current "hype", and grow slowly just as Bitcoin grew slowly. Bitcloud shall be produced and shall also succeed. It may grow slow or fast, but that is of no consequence to the fact that the platform will take on a life of its own and will therefore be sustainable in ways that these other projects are not.

For the core team, our work on the Bitcloud project isn't a job and it's not a business: it is a gift to the world.

Apologies for such a wordy response. I've had enough of disruption. Use this list if you'd like to contribute. Nothing more.

-=Gnostication=-

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 1:16 AM, SbSpider notifications@github.com wrote:

I would suggest that you not slander what I did by saying that I was "trolling" - I joined on quite early, and helped with the admin things such as the Wiki or Facebook and G+. I wanted to do a hell of a lot more, but you were stringent on your way of doings things, and kept on telling me that I "am too young, and should sit back and learn from what people are doing".

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50310682.

[victorkim360]

I have been wanting to help, and have made some posts to the forum where I had been directed to. Unfortunately, there was not a timely response, and I have moved on to Storj as well as cbbcbail. A massive difference between storj and Bitcloud development is the payment of developers. They are almost done with their beta version, and the crowdsale has already attracted many bit coins and customers. I am still willing to help out with Bitcloud, but the project needs somebody knowledgeable to make sure everybody is getting answers and work when they want work. The subreddit is not active and neither is the Facebook page because of the lack of contributions.

I, too, and upset about the atmosphere of Bitcloud. I think it could change, but for now the storj ambience is better.

Please email me privately for any work that needs to be done. I will be glad to help make a video or do anything if it will revive Bitcloud. I also have other ways to help Bitcloud survive the open-source, as well as applications that might need to be implemented. Javier, if you are interested just let me know. Another idea might be to just start paying free-lancers to do some jobs for us. I think the group needs to change their mindset, and not be afraid to use a couple centralized applications for the better good.

Victor Kim

On Jul 28, 2014, at 9:56 AM, MAT notifications@github.com wrote:

I have to weigh in to this chain.

SbSpider:

You did remove yourself from the project, but you were definitely pushed out by Javier and also by the very disruption you created. When you left, Javier and I were both very glad because your lack of maturity and over-inflated ego had no place in this project. Disruption is most definitely not needed, and even in this very chain you have managed to stir up more trouble. This is not productive.

In truth, your disruption and the drama that accompanied it resulted in both Javier and I quickly growing more burnt out than we could handle. You may have been around from early on, but I don't know anything you contributed. You didn't put the web site together. You were focused on a dev/build environment, as if that was even needed. But you don't have experience to know that the most effective methodology requires prototyping and testing early and often. Being concerned with tertiary tools shows a lack of understanding that the code produced rules open source far more than the tools and/or environment used. This isn't enterprise SDLC, it's open source.

To the group:

This is what we generally have to work with. Almost no one other than Javier has coded. For example, another person that claimed desire to help (Matthew) said he would work on an interface to the nodepool. I emailed him June 18 to work with him on the interface - to answer questions and put him on task as to how it could be done - and never heard from him again. I gave him the option of doing it in any language he wanted, but it appears that he either couldn't code or just completely lost interest as soon as work was presented.

There appears to be a great deal of interest and almost zero contribution. The most contribution we received was in putting the web site together. With regards to the actual platform, anyone capable of coding seems to either have no time or only be interested in providing advice and suggestions. Those suggestions and inputs are certainly helpful and appreciated, but it doesn't result in progress.

As a result, Javier and I have decided to focus more on personal activities even as we do continue to work on the project in the background to reboot it back to a more active status, with lessons learned about who actual contributors are and how to prevent disruptions/drama. We are establishing our own internal pace, and communicating among ourselves because no one else seems to contribute anyway.

Personally, I have been miserable at my job (that actually pays bills), so I've been applying to 5-10 new positions per week. Anyone who has looked for an upper-level technical position know that a job-hunt can be a job in itself. I took Friday off for an interview, as an example. This focus on my personal well-being certainly has taken me away from the work I can contribute to this project, and slowed my pace, but I am still contributing. Javier may be in the same or similar situation.

Although I have no video editing experience, I managed to put together two videos of the project presentations based on a slide deck and audio recordings that Javier produced months ago. I used only open source tools. (The "second" presentation will have to be recorded again for better image quality.) This took days worth of work, spread out over weeks time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j-UKU8JZ4o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYDHsovGHOo

(The "first" presentation was produced by Kyle, and I don't currently have that link.)

Lately, I have been trying to complete a Software Design Document that I began months ago and re-work the project plan to be more flexible and realistic (especially considering a general lack of contribution) considering our sparse resources. The reason I am focusing on these things is that a common block among prospective contributors seems to be a lack of understanding of the Bitcloud architecture/design. I want to eliminate that blockage by providing sufficient documentation such that anyone may assist to produce a proof of concept for further versions/milestones.

Once that is done, I will code. Whether Javier or anyone else can or not, I will continue. To be fair, I am positive that Javier will pick up coding again once someone (anyone) else is there to work with him.

Moving forward:

The project will continue. Only, it will continue at our own pace and according to our plan/operations. I would love for more people to be involved, and Javier and I both would readily make the activities more transparent, but there is currently no point since it has thus far failed to result in any substantial external contributions. The community appears to mostly be a group of interested parties, not actual contributors.

If anyone would like to contribute, I suggest you take time to understand the general architecture, then work with the core design team (including Javier and others) to zero-in on a component that you want to code.

{I still have to work with one of Javier's contacts to try and develop an interface to the nodepool - any interface - but job hunting kept me from reaching out to him last week. (An interface will allow us to have test-driven development.) Jon from Norway also began the process of learning the design/architecture, but thus far hasn't coded as he indicated he would be busy for the next week or so.}

I believe most of us appreciate the Storj and MaidSafe (and others, e.g., ethereum, etc.) groups for the bleeding-edge developments they move forward with. However, I think there is also a shared belief within the Bitcloud core that those projects are not sustainable.

For example, MaidSafe relies upon an appcoin (SafeCoin) infrastructure. Bitcloud is currency agnostic, and this is actually a strong advantage to the platform, leaving it open and flexible for any application. Storj is a fantastic idea, but relies on a blockchain infrastructure. Blockchains are ingenious mechanisms for trustless public transaction ledgers. Storage of data? No so much.

Bitcloud's architecture will allow it to be alive - beyond any current "hype", and grow slowly just as Bitcoin grew slowly. Bitcloud shall be produced and shall also succeed. It may grow slow or fast, but that is of no consequence to the fact that the platform will take on a life of its own and will therefore be sustainable in ways that these other projects are not.

For the core team, our work on the Bitcloud project isn't a job and it's not a business: it is a gift to the world.

Apologies for such a wordy response. I've had enough of disruption. Use this list if you'd like to contribute. Nothing more.

-=Gnostication=-

On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 1:16 AM, SbSpider notifications@github.com wrote:

I would suggest that you not slander what I did by saying that I was "trolling" - I joined on quite early, and helped with the admin things such as the Wiki or Facebook and G+. I wanted to do a hell of a lot more, but you were stringent on your way of doings things, and kept on telling me that I "am too young, and should sit back and learn from what people are doing".

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/issues/46#issuecomment-50310682.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[JaviLib]

@MAT, absolutely well said and well done. The editing of your videos are very good, althought probably the one failing in them is me with my bad english. :P

I will try to find the time to put the videos in the main page of the project, if no one does it before. I'll open an issue for that.

[SbSpider]

Well, great to see that the negativity is still there.

For your information, I actually did not try and disrupt it - in fact, even this issue wasn't meant to start a disruption. It was the anger of others working on this that turned it into a disruption, if you look at the message stream, so I would advise you to quantify your statements before stating that.

Anyway, since there has been no change since I left, I will leave you to your own operations.

Goodbye.