Alter TOS to allow for federation with other networks

[colans]

The terms of service (TOS) is too restrictive to allow for federation with other networks. It should be be relaxed somewhat:

7.2 Accessing the Service. You agree not to access, or attempt to access, the Service by any means other than through the Site or the Apps. You specifically agree not to access, or attempt to access, the Service through any automated means (including, without limitation, through the use of scripts, bots, unauthorized third party apps, spiders or web crawlers).

This is currently preventing federation with matrix.org, blocking https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/issues/1184

[raphaelrobert]

Hi @colans, Wire doesn't support federation just yet. This is something we will look into later this year. The ToU will then follow.

[freddie-freeloader]

Could someone explain, why this issue was closed? :slightly_smiling_face:

[tuxayo]

@raphaelrobert

Hi @colans, Wire doesn't support federation just yet. This is something we will look into later this year. The ToU will then follow.

Even without federation, can bridges be allowed? https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-wishlist/issues/179

[tuxayo]

@freddie-freeloader

Could someone explain, why this issue was closed? slightly_smiling_face

Because without federation being ready, updating the ToS is not use.

But for bridges is it necessary, which would be a step forward.

[iteco]

@raphaelrobert @kristin-wire

As year is changing soon, could you please give us a brief update about your current federation plans. Thanks!

[raphaelrobert]

Federation is still planned, for now we concentrate on on-premise installations of the Wire server components, which is a prerequisite for federation.

[strypey]

@raphaelrobert

Federation is still planned, for now we concentrate on on-premise installations of the Wire server components, which is a prerequisite for federation.

Can you give any details on your federation plans? Is your intention to only allow federation between servers running your Wire server code, or will people be able to write their own implementations of your server>server API? Will you use a bespoke server>server API, or are you open to implementing existing chat federation standards like XMPP or Matrix?

Now that all Wire source code has been released under free licenses, this is something a lot of people are interested to know about. I know you're all working hard on improving the Wire software, but it would be great if someone from the Wire team could write a blog post about it, or do an interview, so we can all get a sense of what you federation plans are and are not. Then we can stop bugging you about it for a while ;)

[makew0rld]

What is the status of this now? @raphaelrobert

[ImaCrea]

Hi there, looking forward to knowing more here. Why is it closed please? This is a very important issue IMHO.

[dreamflasher]

Please clarify why you are actively blocking the development of bridges, by not doing a simple change to the TOS.

[iteco]

Just updating this issue to have a reference to the related discussion

@raphaelrobert said that they are working with the federation (their own federation implementation, not changing TOS) https://github.com/wireapp/wire/issues/266#issuecomment-473873942

@jschaul commented same here https://github.com/wireapp/wire-server/issues/631#issuecomment-541728717

and there is a short reference to it also in the blog at here https://wire.com/en/blog/wire_business_update/

and bit more about the new protocol here https://wire.com/en/blog/mls-meeting-summary/

and here https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mls-protocol/

However, I haven't seen any estimations when the protocol could be ready. Are there those ? Is it in good case in years, and in bad case never ?

(I see that there are big players involved (e.g. fb), but I don't see that having common protocol would be in their interest. More likely working like MicroSoft... I would love to be proven wrong!)

Wire has got some awards (and it is great for private enterprise usage), but until the federation exist it is just one solution IMHO on the same line with Signal, Telegram and others.

[jschaul]

However, I haven't seen any estimations when the protocol could be ready. Are there those ? Is it in good case in years, and in bad case never ?

The order of things will be

1. some form of federation between wire-server installations only, planned MVP is 2020 (hard to give a more precise estimate with priorities being in-flux).
2. integration of MLS will likely only come after a first federation implementation using the existing encryption mechanisms (protheus, cryptobox) is in place. No estimation of when MLS might get integrated can be given at this point.

That's my personal understanding today, not an "official" answer (so things could change still).

[tuxayo]

About bridges, I tried to reboot the discussion in a dedicated issue: #340

[ShadowJonathan]

Denying interoperability access is illegal under EU law, networks cannot arbitrarily restrict crossover with other networks and services.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/interoperability, plus the upcoming Digital Markets Act only seems to strengthen this.

[erkinalp]

EU Digital Markets Act and EU Digital Services Act explicitly include interpersonal communication services in the scope (the following definition is from EU Digital Markets Act):

‘Core platform service’ means any of the following: (a)online intermediation services; (b)online search engines; (c)online social networking services; (d)video-sharing platform services; (e)number-independent interpersonal communication services; (f)operating systems; (g)cloud computing services; (h)advertising services, including any advertising networks, advertising exchanges and any other advertising intermediation services, provided by a provider of any of the core platform services listed in points (a) to (g);

[xxxserxxx]

Why is federation required to allow third-party connections to the Wire network? OP asked for the ToS to be relaxed so that someone could, e.g., build a Matrix bridge allowing Matrix clients to connect to Wire accounts. Why is federation necessary? There exist Matrix bridges for other non-federated services, such as Signal.

To be clear, the request is not for federation, or for Wire to implement a bridge, but to relax the ToS enough for a third party to write a bridge. Or for Wire to provide an explicit exemption for a Matrix bridge.

[dwt]

@wire: what is required for you guys to relax the tos? Would you accept a pull request for that? What is your process?

[strypey]

@jschaul (2020)

No estimation of when MLS might get integrated can be given at this point

Now that MLS has been formally published as an IETF standard, can we get an update on a) Wire-to-Wire federation progress, and b) when MLS might be integrated into Wire?