Closed fstuerzl closed 2 years ago
I like this approach. We use a different approach in GRIB to categorize parameters: discipline (meteorology, oceanography, hydrology, remote sensing, space weather, land modelling etc.) and categories (momentum, moisture, mass, radiation, etc.) I like more your domain approach but it does not solve entirely the "interface" issue. On the problem we have with the discipline/category approach is that parameters belonging to 2 disciplines are usually classified twice. Take sea surface temperature, it is used in NWP but also in ocean models. The parameters exists both in meteorology and oceanography and is redundant. Data producers may struggle to decide which one to use. So is the ocean surface part of the ocean domain or the atmosphere domain? I would say both. Maybe we could add interfaces as domain? ocean surface, land surface?
In any case I would add to the code list "land" (or "soil"), "inland water", "canopy" and "urban"
See https://github.com/wmo-im/wmds/wiki/Tags-for-observed-variables for discussion.
Is "Outer" necessary for "Outer Space"?
Also, should we use "Domain" instead of "Space" in all the definitions?
"Outer Space | Spatial extent above the Atmosphere around Earth" As the atmosphere is gradually thinning out, there is no clear border. Should we define an altitude? Just a thought
Improved definition for Outer Space: Spatial extent above the Atmosphere around Earth above the Kármán line at 100 km altitude.
Following also some e-mail exchange outside this thread, here's a suggestion to expand the existing list. The term 'Terrestrial' would be re-used but would exclude Freshwater and Cryopshere, which would be considered separate domains. To avoid confusion with the term 'Earth' as in 'Earth system', the term 'Inner Earth' is used. Improvements to the definitions are welcome.
Proposal | notation | name | description | status |
---|---|---|---|---|
4 | Space | Spatial extent above the Atmosphere around Earth | under review | |
1 | Atmosphere | Spatial extent from the Earth surface towards but excluding space | uncontroversial | |
3 | Ocean | Continuous saline, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere | under review | |
5 | Terrestrial | Spatial extent comprised of land masses, normally not covered by the Ocean or other water bodies and excluding cryosphere | under review | |
6 | Cryosphere | Spatial extent of the Earth's surface characterized by the presence of frozen water, including glaciers, ice sheets, snow and permafrost | under review | |
7 | Hydrological | Non-saline, non-atmosphere, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere, including lakes, rivers, groundwater | under review | |
2 | Solid Earth | Spatial extent of the Earth from the solid surface inwards | under review |
I support Hydrological domain
(revised comment)
There was a suggestion from email discussions to align variables with the terms in the WMO Strategic Plan 2020-2023, but the terms are not clearly defined in the plan and I don't think it makes sense to follow through with this suggestion.
For reference, potentially relevant snippets from the plan are below.
Foot note for defining Earth System (p. 8): "2 In this context, the Earth is being considered as an integrated system of atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, hydrosphere, biosphere and geosphere, which informs policies and decisions based on a deeper understanding of the physical, chemical, biological and human interactions that determine the past, current and future states of the Earth."
Footnote (p. 7): In the context of this Strategic Plan, the term “weather” refers to short-term variations in the state of the atmosphere and their phenomena or effects, including wind, cloud, rain, snow, fog, cold spells, heat waves, drought, sand and dust storms and atmospheric composition, as well as tropical and extratropical cyclones, storms, gales, the state of the sea (e.g. wind-generated waves), sea ice, coastal storm surges etc. “Climate” refers to longer-term aspects of the atmosphere-ocean-land surface systems. “Water” includes freshwater above and below the land surfaces of the Earth, their occurrence, circulation and distribution, both in time and space. Related “environmental” issues refer to surrounding conditions affecting human beings and living resources, for example the quality of air, soil and water, as well as “space weather” – the physical and phenomenological state of the natural space environment, including the Sun and the interplanetary and planetary environments.
per conversation with Enrico: Change 'Ocean' to 'Marine', ex. it could be confusing if someone is trying to organize a variable associated with the Mediterranean Sea....
Foot note for defining Earth System (p. 8): "2 In this context, the Earth is being considered as an integrated system of atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere, hydrosphere, biosphere and geosphere, which informs policies and decisions based on a deeper understanding of the physical, chemical, biological and human interactions that determine the past, current and future states of the Earth."
I read this footnote too and started looking for definition for these terms. There are multiple definitions for some of these terms, depending on where you look.
For example: hydrosphere may include ocean and cryosphere (https://www.britannica.com/science/hydrosphere)
Geosphere may include everything, atmosphere, hydrosphere...
Do you know the WMO definitions @amilan17 ?
Thanks!
@wmo-im/tt-wigosmd -- One thing to consider in the evolution of the domains is the management of the code list tables in the Codes Registry. For example, if we split 'Terrestrial' into two domains: 'Terrestrial' and 'Solid earth' -- do we also need/want to create another code list table and, subsequently, move the appropriate codes into that list?
@gaochen-larc - I'm not aware of any formal list of WMO definitions.
I can support a change from 'Ocean' to 'Marine'. Notations 6 and 7 are new, additional subsets of what is now combined under Terrestrial (5). Since this is a rather fundamental vocabulary, I think everyone should comment. @ferrighi @RMaerz @Wang Ying (I have no github handle) @efucile (please consult within WMO Secretariat also).
Branch at https://github.com/wmo-im/wmds/blob/issue277/tables_en/1-06-01.csv
@gaochen-larc - I'm not aware of any formal list of WMO definitions.
@amilan17 @gaochen-larc @joergklausen @rodicanitu Yes indeed, this is a problem many groups within WMO are facing. To be consistent within WMO will require a huge effort across all bodies.
Regarding cryosphere, there is a WMO definition in WMO-No. 49, Volume 1: "A component of the Earth system that contains ice, including solid precipitation, snow, glaciers and ice caps, ice sheets, ice shelves, icebergs, sea ice, lake ice, river ice, permafrost, and seasonally frozen ground, or even “dry” material in the case of permafrost. The cryosphere includes elements on or beneath the Earth’s surface or that are measured at the surface in the case of solid precipitation. It therefore excludes ice clouds." I agree this is one of many, for example, the IPCC Special Report on the Ocean and Cryosphere in a Changing Climate defines cryosphere as "the components of the Earth System at and below the land and ocean surface that are frozen, including snow cover, glaciers, ice sheets, ice shelves, icebergs, sea ice, lake ice, river ice, permafrost, and seasonally frozen ground."
Both definitions are quite inclusive, exclude the atmosphere, and do not assume the presence of frozen water, which is correct.
@fierz The WMO-No. 49 definition appears a bit too verbose. I have updated the branch with a modified version of the IPCC definition that uses terms from the other domains in the list for consistency. If agreed, a consolidated proposal can be prepared. Comments?
@joergklausen @rodicanitu @amilan17 @gaochen-larc Fact is that the 'verbose' definition is part of "Technical Regulations - Basic Documents No. 2: General Meteorological Standards and Recommended Practices" and I don't think we can overlook or ignore it here. I should have made this point clear in my first comment. So either we take over the 'verbose' definition or we use the concise version and refer properly to the verbose one. I personally like the idea of having more concise definitions (descriptions) in the metadata standard that can be refined in a single entry point document - kind of a WMO glossary - where, for example, the WMDS notation could be used as a link. Unfortunately, there is no such document available at present time. Therefore, in that case, one would need to refer to WMO-No. 49, Volume I.
@joergklausen @rodicanitu Sorry, I forgot to add that I would prefer to use just "snow" instead of "snow cover" in the description of cryosphere, as in the verbose definition. From a cryosphere scientist point of view, "snow" is a more generic term and encompasses more than "snow cover".
For interoperability concerns I've been looking into how well the list fits into GCMD topic categories (so slightly different perhaps) and I think there is good mapping.
notation | name | description | comment |
---|---|---|---|
1 | Atmosphere | Spatial extent from the Earth surface towards but excluding space | agree, GCMD: Atmosphere |
2 | Solid Earth | Spatial extent of the Earth from the solid surface inwards | agree, GCMD: Solid Earth (the planet's solid surface and its interior.) |
3 | Marine | Continuous saline, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere | GCMD: Oceans, but I would also support "Marine" as a domain name. |
4 | Space | Spatial extent above the Atmosphere around Earth above the Kármán line at 100 km altitude | I agree with adding a boundary as suggested |
5 | Terrestrial | Spatial extent comprised of land masses, normally not covered by the Ocean or other water bodies and excluding cryosphere | This probably maps to Land Surface (Refers to the surface area and features on the surface of the Earth.). I would think that in the definition excluding water bodies/Ocean is not necessary as "land masses" is specified. |
6 | Cryosphere | Frozen part of the terrestrial and ocean domains at and below the surface, including snow cover, glaciers, ice sheets, ice shelves, icebergs, sea ice, lake ice, river ice, permafrost, and seasonally frozen ground | Agree, GCMD: Cryosphere (frozen water part of the Earth system) |
7 | Hydrological | Non-saline, non-atmosphere, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere, including lakes, rivers, groundwater | This would partially map to Terrestrial Hydrosphere, meaning indeed non-atmospheric. I support the definition stating what misleading element it can exclude. |
For reference I've used: https://gcmd.earthdata.nasa.gov/KeywordViewer/scheme/Earth%20Science?gtm_search=snow%20cover>m_scheme=Earth%20Science
Should we add snow interstitial to the cryosphere description?
For interoperability concerns I've been looking into how well the list fits into GCMD topic categories (so slightly different perhaps) and I think there is good mapping.
@ferrighi: Thanks for looking into this
at Cryosphere:
Should we add snow interstitial to the cryosphere description?
@gaochen-larc 👎 , this is totally out of the scope of a concise, inclusive description.
I am following @fierz on 'snow' vs 'snow cover': remove 'cover' from the description. Otherwise, this code list appears complete. The branch has been updated.
@ferrighi - update issue summary and branch @amilan17 Request Erik ANDERSSON - Chair of JET-EOSDE to review.
These domains will most likely extend 1-01 lists to reflect these domains.
Consolidated proposal, ready for final review:
Branch: https://github.com/wmo-im/wmds/blob/issue277/tables_en/1-06-01.csv
Summary and Purpose The biogeophysical context of an observed variable according to the WIGOS Metadata Standard is among other aspects (matrix #278, layer #185) expressed by domains, such as atmosphere, earth etc.. Currently these terms are only indirectly mentioned in examples for category 1-01 Observed variable - measurand (see p. 19, WIGOS Metadata Standard) or in table names in the codes registry, but not properly defined.
Stakeholder(s) @efucile @echarpent
Proposal Include a code list for domains with the following entries:
notation | name | description |
---|---|---|
1 | Atmosphere | Spatial extent from the Earth surface towards but excluding space |
2 | Solid Earth | Spatial extent of the Earth from the solid surface inwards |
3 | Marine | Continuous saline, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere |
4 | Space | Spatial extent above the Atmosphere around Earth above the Kármán line at 100 km altitude |
5 | Terrestrial | Spatial extent comprised of land masses, normally not covered by the Ocean or other water bodies and excluding cryosphere |
6 | Cryosphere | Frozen part of the terrestrial and ocean domains at and below the surface, including snow, glaciers, ice sheets, ice shelves, icebergs, sea ice, lake ice, river ice, permafrost, and seasonally frozen ground |
7 | Hydrological | Non-saline, non-atmosphere, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere, including lakes, rivers, groundwater |
Reason Provide a consolidated vocabulary for domains
An (important) editorial change that I would request is to use alphanumeric notations here instead of numbers, i.e.
atmosphere
, solidEarth
, marine
, space
, terrestrial
, cryosphere
, hydrological
. I have updated the branch accordingly.
@efucile @echarpent Can you please provide 2 confirmations of the branch from relevant people (above and beyond any particular community, as this is at the highest level of organization of observed variables), so that we can conclude this? Thanks.
I have asked John Eyre for comments on 11/11/2021, and asked him in particular to think about the term "Marine", which use has some history in WMO, and which understanding may somehow be conflicting with the proposed definition.
Reply from John Eyre on 15/11/2021: I don’t think there is a quick answer to this question, because it depends on how the word “domain” is going to be used within WIGOS:
Within RRR, we need some way of sub-dividing the full list of applications areas, and currently we use the word “domain” for this purpose. This affects only RRR and OSCAR/Requirements – it does not affect WIGOS codes and it has little or no impact on OSCAR/Space or OSCAR/Surface. Within RRR, we need to decide whether the domains should be mutually exclusive and, if so, how. For example, “Integrated Earth System” overlaps with most of the others. If it is only a means of sub-dividing the list of application areas, then we don’t need to decide in which domain to put a particular geophysical variable, e.g. snow. TT-WIGOSMD (Joerg Klausen) has raised a completely different issue concerning “domains”. If, in the WIGOS MD codes registry, we define a variable as (e.g.) “temperature”, then we need a means of deciding which domain this belongs to – is it an atmospheric temperature or an ocean temperature, etc.? This may, in the end, be an academic argument, because it relies on removing some variable names which currently contain the word “temperature”. This may be difficult because some codes contain them for historical reasons. You will see that the two uses of the word “domain” above are completely different. Also you can see that some discussion is needed on how we are going to use the word “domain” before we can decided what are appropriate names for these domains.
Alternative uses of the term “domain” have been discussed with Chair JET-EOSDE. We agree that: • that the term should be use, as TT-WIGOSMD suggests, to refer (broadly) to the location of the observing system – easy to do for in situ observations; some qualifications will be needed for remotely-sensed observations, but this should not create many problems. • that it will no longer be used within RRR as a means of sub-dividing Application Areas.
Concerning the list of domains:
Marine
Per later e-mail exchange with @echarpent and @JohnEyre, the preferred term is now (again) 'Ocean'. However, the original concern with that remains. Thus, to accommodate smaller basins, normally called 'sea', I would suggest we go with 'OceanSea'. The definition remains as proposed.
Further, the word 'domain' was added to the names of 'Terrestrial' and 'Hydrological'.
Would it be preferable to call this new codelist 'featureOfInterest', rather than 'domain'?
For me, “domain” is highly preferable to “feature of interest”. A feature of interest sounds like a small thing – a cloud or a tree – not the atmosphere or the ocean. I am now very happy with “domain” in the way that you have defined it; it is “feature of interest” that I find confusing. John
From: Jörg Klausen @.> Sent: 29 November 2021 13:15 To: wmo-im/wmds @.> Cc: Eyre, John @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [wmo-im/wmds] 1-06-01 New code list "Domain" (#277)
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Would it be preferable to call this new codelist 'featureOfInterest', rather than 'domain'?
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“OceanSea” is fine with me. John
From: Jörg Klausen @.> Sent: 29 November 2021 13:06 To: wmo-im/wmds @.> Cc: Eyre, John @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [wmo-im/wmds] 1-06-01 New code list "Domain" (#277)
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Marine
Per later e-mail exchange with @echarpenthttps://github.com/echarpent and @JohnEyrehttps://github.com/JohnEyre, the preferred term is now (again) 'Ocean'. However, the original concern with that remains. Thus, to accommodate smaller basins, normally called 'sea', I would suggest we go with 'OceanSea'. The definition remains as proposed.
Further, the word 'domain' was added to the names of 'Terrestrial' and 'Hydrological'.
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Marine
Per later e-mail exchange with @echarpent and @JohnEyre, the preferred term is now (again) 'Ocean'. However, the original concern with that remains. Thus, to accommodate smaller basins, normally called 'sea', I would suggest we go with 'OceanSea'. The definition remains as proposed.
Further, the word 'domain' was added to the names of 'Terrestrial' and 'Hydrological'.
What about just use "Saline"? This may be a little strange, but covers all saltwater cases...
Alternatives to "Domain": SubjectofInterest, ObjectofInterest
@gaochen-larc Thanks for brainstorming!
‚Saline‘ does sound a little strange in my ears, indeed. I would try to stick to something more common.
I believe JET-OSDE is now quite comfortable with ‚domain‘ (the technical term FeatureOfInterest was not well received and I am not sure that it would help to replace it with another techie term that is not even part of the O&M standard)
Glad to see that we can stick to "domain", thanks @JohnEyre. And if "OceanSea" can settle the twist between ocean(nographers) and marine scientists, well done!
2cents: OceanSea is awkward and marine is technically correct (https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20111120224003680). Perhaps add "...including oceans and seas" to the description.
@amilan17 Agree "OceanSea" is awkward yes, while maritime is an adjective, which is awkward too. Or was it named "maritime domain"? Then it may work with the description you propose.
For the sake of being less awkward, what about just use "Ocean" and change the description to "Continuous saline, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere, e.g., ocean and sea"
Glad to see that we can stick to "domain", thanks @JohnEyre.
+1
Now that we have decoupled "domain" from the Applications Area work within WIGOS RRR, I would be content with any of the suggestions: Ocean, OceanSea or Marine. My preference would be for Ocean (for simplicity) with the definition suggested above.
I would be content with any of the suggestions: Ocean, OceanSea or Marine. My preference would be for Ocean (for simplicity) with the definition suggested above.
Agree, even so I would say "..., that is, oceans and seas." And last question: do I understand 'continuous' correctly as excluding Caspian and Dead seas?
Logically, ‚maritime domain‘ or ‚marine domain‘ is better than ‚ocean‘ because it naturally includes oceans and seas (that is why the issue with ocean came up in the first place).
An improved definition could be ‚Saline, non-cryosphere part of the hydrosphere, including oceans and seas.‘
@echarpent Can you get a feedback from IOC or GOOS?
Continuous was originally included to exclude salt ponds, marshes etc. In fact, we need to agree if those would be ‚terrestrial‘, because they are significantly different from oceans and seas and there is no other domain for them.
@fierz I think I would include the Caspian and Dead Sea here, knowing that they are relatively small even for a sea. But they are saline, and that is the defining feature.
@anthoninlize -- can you get some feedback from the ocean community?
Logically, ‚maritime domain‘ or ‚marine domain‘ is better than ‚ocean‘ because it naturally includes oceans and seas (that is why the issue with ocean came up in the first place).
I tend to agree with that. Even though I don't mind so much as long as it's well defined. In any case, the oceanographic community is now talking about a single global Ocean, with several basins. I'm not sure about the exact definition, but the Global Ocean covers all the seas as well. I'll ask for feedback, hopefully I'll get it soon enough.
I think I would include the Caspian and Dead Sea here, knowing that they are relatively small even for a sea. But they are saline, and that is the defining feature.
@joergklausen Fully in line with your comment. I also think the word 'saline' should make the difference, and following @anthoninlize, a clear description will be the nec plus ultra. "The ocean is the sea" as found in Collins English Dictionary clearly would not help 😇
per https://github.com/wmo-im/wmds/wiki/2021-12-16-TT-WIGOSMD-17 discussion
@amilan17 @anthoninlize @echarpent @efucile Any progress on this? I would like to consolidate this issue for FT2022-2.
Open questions:
Summary and Purpose
The biogeophysical context of an observed variable according to the WIGOS Metadata Standard is among other aspects (matrix #278, layer #185) expressed by domains, such as atmosphere, earth etc.. Currently these terms are only indirectly mentioned in examples for category 1-01 Observed variable - measurand (see p. 19, WIGOS Metadata Standard) or in table names in the codes registry, but not properly defined.
Stakeholder(s)
@efucile @echarpent, GCW, GAW, GOS, WHOS, GCOS, GTOS, ...
Proposal
Reason
Provide a consolidated vocabulary for domains. The OGC O&M (ISO19156) -based model for the representation of WIGOS metadata has a FeatureType 'Feature of interest'. The proposed codes will be used in this context to describe part of the context of an observation. Cf. The-idea-and-concept-behind-WMDS.
Consultations
WMO Secretariat (@echarpentier, @rodicanitu), @sebvi (ECMWF), @rhornbrook (NCAR), @fierz (SLF, NC IUGG), @JohnEyre (UKMO), @anthoninlize (OceanOPS)