Adding bashguuder and spirit of ashkandar armor debuffs (-600 and -1200)

[Foxdonuts]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. Just removing -600 or -1200 armor from the boss total maximum armor doesnt allow for correct simming.

Describe the solution you'd like Adding the respective debuffs in misc similar to how crystal yield is there.

Describe alternatives you've considered As stated above, removing armor from boss maximum isnt correct.

Additional context Add any other context or screenshots about the feature request here. Pretty please? ^^

[lime-green]

@Foxdonuts removing -600 or -1200 armor from boss armor is indeed exactly what crystal yield does (for 200 armor). I've never heard of these items so I don't think there's sufficient need to add these as debuff options. But setting the armor manually will achieve what you want

[Foxdonuts]

I may not be a super expert in this but im pretty sure the armor calculations of wrath is Total armor -> sunder -> FF/weakness -> shattering throw -> = total remaining armor that can be reduced with arp -> remaining armor that can not be reduced/removed ->unless removed with crystal yield. If you have 102,4% arp i think the calculations came out to ~310 something armor and crystal yield would then remove 200 from that last bit.

The way that you're suggesting that it works is to remove 200 / 600 / 1200 flat armor from the top and then run all of the % based armor calculations after witch is not how it works in game and would result in very different math and would end up undervaluing the flat armor reductions? And the reason why bashguuder/eskandars claws might be reeeeeally good is for all of the physicals going for 100% arp cap but has yet to reach it leaving lots of potential armor to be removed with these items.

Im no math phd major or anything so i may be wrong in all of this.

[Foxdonuts]

https://clips.twitch.tv/RoundKnottyCockroachPicoMause-hLsmHn0nM5pT-CGR here's an old twitch clip i made to quickly demonstrate how it works

[Foxdonuts]

Even tho the sunder armor in that clip was applied after the puncture armor, it removed ~80/stack 80x5 = 400 = 20% of his maximum armor before anything else was done to him, making the -600 puncture be a flat reduction after all other calculations. And yes, i have tested it and it also works on NPC's

[lime-green]

@Foxdonuts interesting, it appears you are correct.

At the least, Crystal Yield should be updated to be after % armor debuffs according to your test.

However those two items are low item level and hence I assume have very low proc-rate on level 83 bosses and AFAIK are not used in actual raids (although I could be wrong)

[lime-green]

Although this contradicts what @where-fore mentions here https://github.com/wowsims/wotlk/issues/2666

As it reads on the tooltip, it reduces 200 armor of the target. This is applied to the base armor before debuffs like Sunder Armor which remove a percentage of armor - eg. with Sunder Armor active, a 1000 armor target will have 800 armor. With Crystal Yield and Sunder Armor active, a 1000 armor target will have (1000-200)*0.8=640 armor (before all the reducible armor shenanigans you'd regularly expect) [...] I have lost the primary tests that prove these, but they were done on Maexxna through Beast Lore in Phase 1, and could be recreated at any time.

[lime-green]

This is the original source, from what I can find:

The beast had a +1000 armor ability apparently so: (6423+1000-200)*0.8 = 5778

Which means it is applied before % armor in this case

[lime-green]

@Foxdonuts are you able to look into this discrepancy? Maybe do a bashguuder + sunder test with beast lore, and then a crystal yield + sunder test with beast lore.

[Foxdonuts]

My guild imploded about a week ago and i dont have the ability to test it with a hunter at the moment since i only run 1 account. On the topic of proc rate bashguuders can pretty easily be kept up 100% of the fight when dualwielding (to be done by a blood dk tank) or even a prot pala or warrior. Lots of fights in ICC allows for the offtank to mainly be emotional support just standing beside the main tank. Keeping up the debuffs will be easy. Eskandars -1200 is way more niche but can be applied.

*edit, eskandars is -1600 at lvl 80. was -1200 at 70

[Foxdonuts]

the sources you linked were for classic/tbc. Armor values/debuffs got changed for wotlk with everything going to % based instead of flat armor reductions and maybe there was a change in the calculations then as well?

[lime-green]

@Foxdonuts the above test was on wotlk beta

[lime-green]

@Foxdonuts can you link the item you mean by "Eskandars" I can't find anything on wowhead with a similar name with an armor debuff

[Foxdonuts]

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=18203/eskhandars-right-claw the 2 set of these claws. adding a log where we did a few tests with it on the icc ptr. The debuff is called shred and says -240 but is in reality -1600 https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yP7VnhkvqKRcXCH8#fight=30&type=auras&hostility=1&spells=debuffs

[Foxdonuts]

You can also see puncture armor there. We tested using only 1x bashguuder on our prot pala when he was just offtanking the boss

[Foxdonuts]

If you're currently thinking how unviable the 1% proc rate on crit is. Its not. It procs from FoK crits as well. so its pretty consistent to proc it on Aoe packs, and in this case we had our rogue test it out while he was applying utility poisons to the blood beasts on deathbringer

[Foxdonuts]

Here's a log of a blood dk having next to 100% uptime on twins in ToGC. Both at the same time https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yhW6HcLrZRwV7a8F#fight=8&type=auras&spells=debuffs&hostility=1&ability=17315&target=16