Is it possible to bypass the 20% limit on upgrade imposed by papal using s2Member Pro?

[renzms]

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title: Is it possible to bypass the 20% limit on upgrade imposed by papal using s2Member Pro?categories: questions
tags: 
author: renzms
github-issue: https://github.com/websharks/s2member/issues/288

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The answer to this question is “Yes, s2Member Pro forms will allow members to upgrade by more than 20% without you needing PayPal Pro”. This works because s2Member cancels the previous recurring billing profile and starts a new one, as Jason Caldwell explains here:

This feature is available with s2Member Pro Forms. You can generate a Billing Modification Form, which allows a Member to upgrade/downgrade. In the routine that s2Member processes, the existing Recurring Profile is terminated, and a new one is created to take its place. Thereby avoiding this limitation all together. This also works with Express Checkout, so you don’t even NEED to have a PayPal Pro account for this to work.

See video: http://www.s2member.com/video-pro-intro/

The issue remains with PayPal Standard integration though. Awaiting resolution from PayPal.

It should be noted that s2Member does not currently support multiple recurring profiles within a single s2Member account.

If you want to change the recurring charge of an existing recurring profile, you’ll need to use s2Member’s Billing Modification process, which essentially cancels the existing recurring profile and then creates a new one with the updated recurring amount.

[jaswrks]

@renzms Do you have a source for the details regarding the 20% rule? To my knowledge, that was removed the software and the site a long while back. This no longer applies to either PayPal or PayPal Pro.

[renzms]

@jaswsinc @raamdev

Made a mistake I think with this one and should have double checked it, before using it for this draft and as a reply. The video link and information is no longer valid.

Referencing internal link and internal note here: https://websharks.zendesk.com/agent/tickets/10822

[raamdev]

@renzms Sorry, that was my fault. I was not aware that the 20% rule was no longer valid.

@jaswsinc Can you explain when and how that changed, or point Renz to some information? If that rule is no longer valid, we should write a KB Article that explains this, as many people (myself included) may still be under the impression that there's still a 20% rule that needs to be worked around.

[jaswrks]

Ah. I see. I was just curious where Renz found that information, because I thought we got rid of everything that mentioned that rule a while back. If there is still information in the Dashboard or in a video somewhere I'd like to get rid of that too, to help avoid this confusion.

Can you explain when and how that changed, or point Renz to some information? If that rule is no longer valid, we should write a KB Article that explains this, as many people (myself included) may still be under the impression that there's still a 20% rule that needs to be worked around.

Like most things with PayPal, it's complicated. I'm not aware of there being any official announcement about this, and as far as I know it is still undocumented to this day.

Some history...

• A 20% rule existed in PayPal Standard a while back, and this impacted s2Member's PayPal Standard "Button" integration, so we had to make site owners aware. Then they removed this limitation without notice. To my knowledge, there is no documentation about this. It just seems PayPal did away with this after many complaints. If you're using Buttons, this limit no longer applies. I only discovered this by testing for myself, and by observing that the official docs no longer mention this limitation.

• A 20% rule still exists for Recurring Payments via Express Checkout, but this does not impact s2Member, because Pro integrations (including Express Checkout) use a delete/replace approach, and modifications like this do not occur. https://developer.paypal.com/docs/classic/express-checkout/integration-guide/ECRecurringPayments/

  Limitations

  The current release of the Recurring Payments API has the following limitations:

  A profile can have, at most, one optional trial period and a single regular payment period. The profile start date may not be earlier than the profile creation date. Recurring Payments with Express Checkout also has the following limitations:

  A buyer's PayPal account must include an active credit card. If not, you cannot create a recurring payments profile for the buyer. Recurring payments cannot be created for buyers in Germany or China. In this case, you can use reference transactions as an alternate solution. You can create a maximum of 10 recurring payments profiles during checkout. You can increase the profile amount by only 20% in each 180-day interval after you create the profile.

[raamdev]

@jaswsinc Thank you. So a 20% rule does still exist, for Recurring Payments via Express Checkout, and s2Member works around that with the Pro-Forms, correct?

@renzms See above. If you could start updating your draft to reflect Jason's comment, that would be great. :-) I also suggest changing this title of this KB Article to "What is the PayPal 20% Rule?"

[jaswrks]

Thank you. So a 20% rule does still exist, for Recurring Payments via Express Checkout, and s2Member works around that with the Pro-Forms, correct?

That is correct. The rule that does still exist is of no consequence when using s2Member, regardless of the approach that you take or the type of integration that you use. This is because it only impacts one specific scenario that neither Buttons or Pro-Forms utilize.

[raamdev]

The rule that does still exist is of no consequence when using s2Member, regardless of the approach that you take or the type of integration that you use.

Right, but using s2Member is a benefit in this regard, correct? i.e., someone who was previously NOT using s2Member and was running into issues with implementing their particular business rules due to PayPal's 20% upgrade rule for recurring payments, would benefit by using s2Member because it would allow them to get around that rule. Do I have that right?