Get rid of postinstall message

[jpike88]

My installation log isn't for advertising space. If you want donations, please do the right thing and promote yourself in places where appropriate. My logs are long enough as it is without this.

The right thing to do is to remove it.

EDIT: An unmaintained fork is available: core-js-without-ads

[tapvt]

I don't mind the message at all, really.

It does seem to cause a non-zero exit code for some reason.

My Elastic Beanstalk + alpine:10 deployments broke completely, and there was no obvious error message.

--loglevel=error got me back up and running, but it took a while to track down the culprit.

[nukeop]

I'm selling a PS4 500GB, asking price $90, email me

also, looking for a job

[TransitoryBliss]

I wont be discussing whether this practice should be supported or not, but if this is causing you issues, run:

npm config set loglevel warn

or edit your npm config file.

[rjgotten]

@robstenbom Not a really suitable option; it will also hide legit info that developers maybe should see.

[inradius]

@tapvt My issue was related to this in combination with a postinstall script. Somehow, running npm ci with a postinstall script breaks somewhere between this message and moving on to the postinstall. At least in my case. Maybe that can help you too.

[jeffstokes72]

Instead of ads you could be looking at a digital goatse in your logs...

It's amazing how good people's lives are that this is the chief problem in life to rage over.

[jpike88]

I've forked and removed the postinstall, and have also published an ad-free version on npm:

npm install core-js-without-ads

This should give people an easy alternative, and stop people from continuing to spam this issue. Some will think I'm a bit of a douche for doing this, but someone's got to be that douche ;)... I'll remove it when there's no point for it to exist.

And no, I'm not going to maintain it. If you want proper support, stick with this repo.

[whitfin]

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change their entire npm configuration to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

I personally don't use anything in core-js myself; it's transitive through dependencies on modules who are seemingly too lazy about splitting their development dependencies up properly. I see this message half a dozen times during a build though, which is fantastic considering I don't use the module.

In the interest of an actual solution, how about simply changing the postinstall script to write a file to /tmp to use as a flag of whether the message has been shown already or not? You still get the advertising and the spam is greatly reduced. Everyone should be happy!

[imjul1an]

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of the CLI message? Are u f^&%g kidding me? If you can't support the creator of core-js - ignore the f^&%g message... simple as that?

@zloirock I hope you gonna solve your financial problems! And that was a super good idea to make it like that 👍

[igeligel]

@whitfin

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change their entire npm configuration to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

Are you running an ad blocker in the browser to make web pages do not show ads? It is the same thing here more or less.

@zloirock First of all thanks for the project - you are one person making the Open Source community what it is today - a great community of some hard working people caring about open software 👍Otherwise, I would recommend that you build a personal brand - like Twitter, blogging and so on. You would reach the people who actually are invested in this community and not just the "users" of your project. But yeah, that is up to you :) I think this is also a reason why babel gets so many donations because the leader of the project is creating content around it, writing blog posts and going to conferences - he just is reaching out to more community-driven people.

[jonaskuske]

This is currently clogging up my logs and adding no value to my project.

@etoxin Why are you using core-js if it doesn't add value? 😅

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change their entire npm configuration to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

@whitfin If you could do that, everyone would change their browser settings to disable ads. But unlike this package, websites do not have a clean "disable ads" switch you can toggle in the settings, so people are going further than that and actually running 3rd party code every time their browser does a network request, just to remove ads.
This package added a straight forward env variable that allows you to disable the ads easily, which is way more than your average website does for you – now what's "ridiculous" about that?!

[ConstantinChirila]

My installation log isn't your advertising space. If you want donations, do the right thing and promote yourself in places where it belongs. My logs are long enough as it is without this.

This is going to anger a lot of people out there. The right thing to do is to remove it.

EDIT: I've forked and published an ad-free version. npm install core-js-without-ads

Use something else! It a free package. Just get over yourself. Thanks!

[stlk]

@jpike88 dude. You're wrong on this one. The only thing I'm angry with right now is this issue. :)

[nukeop]

I'm starting a service to connect the maintainers of popular npm packages with advertisers.

If you'd like to get on board and monetize your package, contact me: promote@gumblert.tech or on matrix.org (see username in my profile).

[jpike88]

Time to unsubscribe, this really blew up. Some parting comments...

To those disliking my posts, thinking I'm the bad guy, I'm going to guess that at least a few of you are using ad-blockers on your browsers. Probably more than a few, as you're probably all developers. That makes at least some of you hypocrites. I'd like to point that out.

I've already put forward my support for @zloirock and I'm confident he can get work without much issue, it's a great project. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day. But part of participating in an open source community is deciding collectively on what unwritten rules everyone should follow, and what precedent those rules set. And from what I see above it's still a very controversial topic, hopefully it stays that way.

[userabuser]

@jpike88 this is the part where you plug your SoundCloud...

[lazarljubenovic]

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of the CLI message? Are u f^&%g kidding me? If you can't support the creator of core-js - ignore the f^&%g message... simple as that?

@zloirock I hope you gonna solve your financial problems! And that was a super good idea to make it like that

Wow, this is the dictionary definition of hypocrisy. How about you ignore the complains on this page, then? Here:

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of comments on issues? Are you kidding me? If you can't handle reading other people's opinions - ignore them... simple as that?

[ConstantinChirila]

Time to unsubscribe, this really blew up. Some parting comments...

To those disliking my posts, thinking I'm the bad guy, I'm going to guess that at least a few of you are using ad-blockers on your browsers. Probably more than a few, as you're probably all developers. That makes at least some of you hypocrites. I'd like to point that out.

I've already put forward my support for @zloirock and I'm confident he can get work without much issue, it's a great project. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day. But part of participating in an open source community is deciding collectively on what unwritten rules everyone should follow, and what precedent those rules set. And from what I see above it's still a very controversial topic, hopefully it stays that way.

We are in no position to decide anything about someones project that puts his blood sweat and tears and gives it for free for the inconvenience of having a log in the console once in a while. It baffles me at the amount of entitlement you and some others have.
Let me give you a quick analogy. I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave. This is opensource, if you don't like it you can stop using it or you can fork it and maintain/develop it yourself. You cannot have any sort of demands whatsoever.

Yes i use Adblock, and core-js have the option to "block" the ad, as pointed in one of the comments. What is your point? Are you emailing blog sites to stop using ads?

[Ichicoro]

damn @jpike88 what a fucking asshole...

[KyeRussell]

It’s very amusing to see all these angry little people internally battling with the fact that they are extremely dependent on software that they get for free, and taking it out on maintainers.

The ad blocker argument is ridiculous. Do you email free publications and demand that they remove their advertising?

Maybe someone grumpy enough could fork npm and add a post install message donation request blocker! Though I imagine that the people spending the time making GitHub issues like this don’t have ‘actually make software’ near the top of their list of priorities.

If I am to be honest, I personally find the message mildly annoying. So mildly that I’d never even consider telling anyone else, let alone make a GitHub issue about it!

Necessary infrastructural libraries like core-js not receiving the financial backing they need because they aren’t ‘user-facing’ is a systemic issue that needs real action. You can’t blame the package author for trying to put food on his table. If you don’t like it, stop sleeping on his couch for free.

“I don’t use the package” is similarly short-sighted. That’s the point...that you don’t think that you use it, when in reality you almost certainly do.

[2xAA]

ctrl + l. If that's not working try CLS.

[kossnocorp]

@jpike88 you probably don't realize how much harm you have done by just writing stuff like that. I won't be surprised if @zloirock stops working on the library after all that shit you and others got for him. Good luck with maintaining core-js-without-ads.

Instead of spending your employer money on shitposting you better go and talk to your manager about the issue and ask for open source budget.

This post-install message is just a symptom of a broader problem where people that directly benefit from open source (businesses that make money on software) don't know that they can help and the price that they might pay one day. The ones that well know about it (developers) instead of making sure that the business is aware of the problem criticize mercantile intentions of open source writers.

[jpike88]

This post is starting to attract some real class acts, but @ConstantinChirila I'll respond.

I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave.

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

Now imagine every piece of furniture, the floors, the walls, doing that. You see why I'm so against it in principle, and why there are plenty of people who are agreeing with my stance? Sure, it's not the case now, but the importance of precedent seems to go over a lot of people's heads here.

So I do what I did. I leave negative feedback, which some of you are acting like is a demand, order, command etc etc... as if I'm somehow attacking or oppressing the person who was providing me the item... for free! I owe him nothing! Just like I'm free to fork the repo (which I've done), I'm also free to tell the owner what I think based on what principles I consider to be important. People here are also free (as long as @zloirock tolerates it) to call me an asshole, or take other shots at me. Just like if @zloirock is unable to financially sustain himself maintaining this library for free, he is also free to change the license and start charging for it! And of course, placing the message in the postinstall.

So our analogies and philosophies are practically opposites. We (and others) have strong feelings on it. And it will probably stay that way, which is why this post is turning into a flame war.

[Ichicoro]

@zloirock how about updating the license so that @jpike88 isn't allowed to use the library anymore, in any shape or form?

[kossnocorp]

Ironically, AdBlock that y'all mention is also supported by donations and periodically open this page: https://getadblock.com/pay.

[ConstantinChirila]

This post is starting to attract some real class acts, but @ConstantinChirila I'll respond.

I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave.

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

Now imagine every piece of furniture, the floors, the walls, doing that. You see why I'm so against it in principle, and why there are plenty of people who are agreeing with my stance? Sure, it's not the case now, but the importance of precedent seems to go over a lot of people's heads here.

So I do what I did. I leave negative feedback, which some of you are acting like is a demand, order, command etc etc... as if I'm somehow attacking or oppressing the person who was providing me the item... for free! Just like I'm free to fork the repo (which I've done), I'm also free to tell the owner what I think based on what principles I consider to be important. People here are also free (as long as @zloirock tolerates it) to call me an asshole, or take other shots at me. Just like if @zloirock is unable to financially sustain himself maintaining this library, he is free to put the message in there in the first place!

So our analogies and philosophies are practically opposites. We (and others) have strong feelings on it. And it will probably stay that way, which is why this post is turning into a flame war.

I still stand by my analogy. You complain about something that its free. If your furniture start asking you to donate you throw it away or return it. I'll reiterate, you have no right to demand anything. Asking, sure, you can ask the maintainer. But opening a public issue and gathering a toxic support group for your own "campaign" it does not just harm the maintainer, but it harms me. I use Core-js, unfortunately i wasn't aware of his predicament, so ill try to donate something his way.

The only good thing you have done is to annoy other people enough to donate in spite of you; it was more effective than the actual log message, for which i sincerely congratulate you. But other that that, I am sorry, but your comments are just childish and full of entitlement. And sorry if you feel personally attacked by anything that i said, not my intention. You might have good intentions and yes you can definitely give feedback, but it was your whole tone of voice that triggered this storm. I am triggered because I saw hundreds of comments jumping and OSS maintainers throat like the maintainers owe them something.

[jonaskuske]

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

That analogy is broken. You didn't take the one sofa, you get a new and improved sofa from this place every once in a while. Some day the place decides that it can't afford this anymore and adds a note "please support us" to the sofa. You're free to keep your old sofa without the note however!

So going by the Sofa analogy, lock your dependencies to versions without the postinstall message and enjoy all the free work you can profit of, without ads!

[cherscarlett]

If everyone in this thread contributed to his open collective, he wouldn't need the ads anymore.

We're getting free software, that we ALL use, and the person who has worked tirelessly on it is struggling financially, while we are all thriving off of his back.

Forking his work, @jpike88, and no longer encouraging folks to donate is absolutely classless and harmful, and I am deeply ashamed of the entitlement we have come to. Someone in our community needs our help, clearly, and your solution is to take advantage of his work for your own selfish want to not see his plea for that help.

[jpike88]

@cherscarlett you and some others here are totally mischaracterising where I'm coming from. Instead of mindlessly joining the righteous brigade, take a step back and understand WHY some people have reacted negatively to this. In the real world, no issue is black and white. People have different angles, and while you may THINK you're right because you're joining in a wave of others with the same message, you're only ever so right.

This post was created a month ago, and likes/dislikes racked evenly because those who came to the repo actually encountered the issue themselves. Things went quiet, and points were exchanged, the argument was made without any needless drama and came to a close. Then suddenly BAM it hits twitter and a bunch of people have fresh meat to tear into. The amount of manufactured drama I'm seeing here is insane.

You should closely read what I've posted, everything I've posted, in this thread. Then you should edit your post and remove the part where I'm not encouraging support for @zloirock. I have simply been advocating the importance of current conventions, and am not, nor was I ever trying to start a shitstorm aimed at the maintainer. If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would. He was always capable of shoring up work without a bunch of keyboard warriors flocking in from social media.

@ConstantinChirila passive aggressive remarks aside, you're right, I've brought attention to him through this, and that can only help him. Not what I intended of course, I just wanted to make my point... but I'm genuinely glad. But I stand by everything I've said because I think it has its merits. I'm not going to throw mud at anybody because I didn't come here to do that.

[veermangat]

@jpike88 I have upvoted your issue, not because I liked what was said but because this has prompted babel to pay @zloirock $5000. Which is awesome.

[jpike88]

Great, it makes sense for Babel to support him, and it's long overdue. It's almost like I can still stand behind my original argument while having empathy for the maintainer.

[jlengstorf]

@jpike88 the vast majority of free things are ad-supported: public transit, infrastructure, broadcast TV, Google, social media — open source not being ad-supported is an exception, not the rule. Attacking volunteers because the model is broken is picking the wrong hill to die on.

Yes, a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy, but compared to the cost/annoyance of hand-rolling all of our software and dealing with the maintenance of it, it's an extraordinarily small price to pay.

Overall: it would be great if OSS didn’t have ads. That would require the companies profiting from open source to establish budgets and compensate the developers putting in those hours in a way that makes it sustainable.

In the meantime, I've backed this project on Open Collective. I'll continue pushing my employer and others to sponsor the OSS projects powering our products. I hope y'all will do the same.

[AlexCatch]

Honestly the amount of entitlement in this thread is baffling. He could put the entire works of Shakespeare in the post install message and no one has the right to challenge it unless they put in as much work as the author. If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple as.

[jpike88]

a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy

Well, my point is that a few can become more than a few. That was always my sole point. And someone has to be advocating for that. Because if it becomes acceptable for other projects to do it, we may see a cascade of log hell across countless servers around the world. And that becomes the new normal.

I'll chat to my partners about backing the project too, after all the shit I've stirred he deserves that much from me.

[mugabe]

The main problem that the most of developers underestimate the role of core-js. I think a lot of them even don't have idea what this library do. Hey, it's core of js, should it not be supported by Google, Mozilla, NodeJS? But five lines of adverts from library that was not included directly by the end developer is really harms. I think it would be more effective if @zloyrock leave only one line with short and simple explanation what is it for and one link to the support page.

@jpike88 If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would.

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic.

[kossnocorp]

@mugabe haha, love the edits history 👌

[garygreen]

It's worth reminding.

[jpike88]

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic

@mugabe no, I was referring to the part where I got called a f**ing asshole. My edits removed what was an admittely harsh tone in a few spots to make the point of my issue clearer. There was never name calling, or any sort of disparaging of @zloirock, I'm sure he'd back me up on that. And it's still going to be enough to upset some people.

[cherscarlett]

@jpike88 Sit down. I read what you wrote, and saw your fork. That is where I'm coming from. I came across this issue because I care deeply about our community, and a post sharing specifically his comment about his financial situation led me here. You don't get to say that I'm mischaracterizing your intention and then say that I'm a part of an angry mob with no mind of my own.

The fact is that after reading that @zloirock gets no compensation for one of the most heavily used packages in our ecosystem, and how much financial trouble he is in currently, you continued to hock your ad-free fork, instead of asking how you can help remove the need for advertising and get him compensated for his hard work.

Keep in mind how many of us came in here after doing something to help @zloirock get the compensation he has deserved for a long time. You could have done the same thing, but you haven't. I'm sure everyone will consider you forgiven for your classless behavior here once we see your face on his patreon or open collective.

Even a $1 a month contribution helps. You can become a backer here:

🎉 https://opencollective.com/core-js 🎉

[jpike88]

@cherscarlett if you read his post, you'd realise how dire his situation is, and how meagre his income from core-js is, even after all this attention. He needs a stable income now, and like I've already said multiple times, he's more than capable of getting one quickly with his credentials. He'd be snapped up by any decent software shop in Europe. There was already talk early on about whether or not Babel should be supporting him (or more importantly, whether or not they're obligated to, and what that means), and they've literally just doubled his open collective budget. But it's only $5000USD for a yearly budget. If that's coming from Babel, then he'd need a huge amount more exposure to make this tenable. I'm for practical measures not token gestures.

Maybe instead of trying to shame an individual, you should be applying pressure to those that can actually make living off core-js a realistic scenario. And that's all the bigger organisations that use this project.

[whitfin]

Are you running an ad blocker in the browser to make web pages do not show ads? It is the same thing here more or less.

@igeligel there is a large difference between npm being run silently and using an Ad blocker in a browser. Silent npm is closer to the analogy of your browser ad blocker also making every web page blank.

This package added a straight forward env variable that allows you to disable the ads easily, which is way more than your average website does for you – now what's "ridiculous" about that?!

You either misread or misunderstood; I said people telling you to change your npm configuration to fix this is ridiculous. The environment variable is fine, except that it's not communicated in the message itself. People will only find it after they come to the repository to complain.

It's also not a good mechanism in general; imagine your ad blocker in a browser but you have to install a different blocker for every website. Am I meant to just export $ADBLOCK forever, just for this package? What if someone makes a package with $NO_ADS and $REMOVE_ADS, etc?

“I don’t use the package” is similarly short-sighted. That’s the point...that you don’t think that you use it, when in reality you almost certainly do.

@KyeRussell this is evidently aimed at what I said, so I'd like to point out that I wasn't just saying it for the sake of it. A dependency in a work project did not separate their dependencies properly, and so I have a bunch of @babel dependencies which depend on core-js (which are all entirely unused). Not a big deal, but just found it worth mentioning that calling someone short-sighted when you don't know their circumstance is never going to help things. Give people more credit!

@jpike88 I don't particularly care for this thread; I was brought here on a bored evening after seeing the message half a dozen times during an install. After seeing what this thread is becoming, I probably won't comment further, and I'd probably advise you to do the same. You've been given an answer; using an environment variable to suppress the message. This is the solution to this issue; you're probably not going to get another one. I think it would be beneficial to close this for everyone involved.

As a note to everyone arguing on behalf of the author, particularly those using the concept of "if you don't like it, don't use it"; please keep in mind what you are arguing for. Lessening the audience of the package is potentially more harmful than removing the message itself. An advertisement is worthless without an audience.

Anyway, going to unsubscribe at this point. Have a good week everyone!

[cherscarlett]

@jpike88 I read his post, and immediately started drawing more attention to his open-collective. I've already gotten my org to sponsor him. I backed him personally, too. I've lifted his situation to more than 10,000 people on my Twitter, and encouraged everyone to back him. Please don't assume to know what I'm doing to help.

It would do you well to become a backer, close this issue, and remove your fork.

If you feel shame by what I've said to you, look inward and consider your actions in the future.

[ThomasRedstone]

Which way of giving you money results in you keeping more of the money?

[alanna]

If people were already supporting open source projects enough, they wouldn't need to ask for donations. That is how to fix this problem, not by criticising maintainers who have given untold hours of their time for free to create something that you obviously value (since you are installing it).

Like with everything in open source, be grateful for the hard work others have gifted—and if you don't like something, contribute (code and/or money) to improve it, fork it, or don't use it. Open source maintainers burn out because people like those in this thread are entitled, demanding, and negative, instead of supportive, and that hurts the whole community.

[hinell]

Wow, thanks for complaining. Without you I wouldn't know that such a great repo has started an advertisement. Probably it wasn't the best way but I think you have to donate some pennies so he can fix output or do it by yourself. Now you can close this issue safely.

[danielrree]

@zloirock:

Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case?

@nathanjd:

Would my donations be going towards legal fees for some harm that you have caused? I understand that an accident can cause unemployment and high medical bills itself but from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

@zloirock:

Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

Disclaimer: I do not know about this situation more than you (reader) do.

The way I see it at this moment (after reading this discussion), it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project (i.e. investing into further work on the project, which I understand and fully support), but it seems to be a fundraiser to cover legal expenses for a person who potentially harmed someone or damaged property.

I think it would be quite hard to understand for people living in EU or USA, but here's a short explanation: in Russia, there's a limit for driving accidents' 3rd party liability insurance, which is around 8000 USD (compared to EU's millions of EUR). An excess should be covered directly by the person who caused such harm. And it's really hard to buy any other kind of 3rd party liability insurance, so it's either you have this small insurance or nothing.

So if he estimates his potential expenses to be more than a hundred thousands dollars, then it was probably something REALLY serious. Personally I am not ready to pay someone's lawyer to prove that person is not guilty (especially if he himself says that he's guilty according to the law).

@zloirock I'm not sure if you are ready to share the details. At the same time I think that if you really need money to cover such expenses, it would be fair to share some details with people who give you their hard-earned money.

[hinell]

@danielrree Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project

I would like to point out that he already did spend a lot of time and moneys and it is never too late to ask for some help to recover some of these expenses back. There could be a lot of reasons to do that right now. But what I don't get is the way you justify things in this case.

Nobody can guarantee you that what you have donated won't go to lawyers to cover legal expenses in the future cause such things may happen completely unpredictably in whole bunch of cases, yet once you know about them and knowing that work was done you are all of sudden "not ready"...

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.:smirk:

[danielrree]

@hinell

Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

Then explain please, how it works in Russia. I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity. But there are laws and if you live in or visit a country, you need to play by the rules.

If he had said something like "I'm being set up by the (police / government / judges / detectives / prosecutors)", I wouldn't even have gotten involved in this thread at all. But he chose to say that "thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault", which implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

I sincerely hope he will be fine, not because he is an author of this package, but because he is a human being. I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.😏

I'm sorry, but I did not personally insult neither him or you, so please refrain from judging other person's actions based on your standards. I read a discussion, couldn't draw any conclusions (because there was not enough info), asked for more info, and tried to do it without much guesswork but still tried to explain my point of view. I will not comment on the reasons why "asking for financial help when you got legal issues" is a bit different thing from "asking for financial help to work on this project full time" because I want to avoid saying anything that can make anyone think I'm trying to accuse him of something.

[hinell]

I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity.

That's entirely possible thing here sadly. You may contact me if you want so we can talk more about him cause I'm personally Russian and I'm interested in such cases. Especially if they are illegal.

"thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault" implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

You've made assumptions which are far further than what he've actually said (he didn't say "at fault"). We may not interpret in any way unless he clarifies everything. On the other side I don't believe he could have engaged in any illegal activity though it's pure speculations so please, don't make far going assumptions which are based only on your perceived standards.

On the other hand I understand if folks won't be willing to support Russian regime in any way so it's reasonable (I won't do it too lol) but I personally hope that he eventually clarifies everything and it's gonna be fine. He is looking for the job btw so I think he is optimistic in this sense (which is another reason btw which probably makes your conclusions wrong).

so please refrain from judging

Oh fine, I won't.

[imjul1an]

@danielrree

but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

Ohhh, you are so naive my friend :) The law doesn't work in Russia and publicity + journalists will not help at all..... even if they try they go to jail as well.