Additional fields for film (and tv series)

[simifilm]

Film support is currently lacking. Things we need:

• Country of origin, required by many styles.
• Additional title. Depending on the situation you either need to have the original title and the international title, or the international title and the translated title. MLA requires this for example.
• MLA also requires distributor.
• Some styles give the production company.

For tv series, if the whole series and not a single episode is cited, often the tv station the show first aired and the producers are given.

[adam3smith]

For TV series, I believe the TV-Broadcast item type would work. For the other issues - could you provide actual examples from relevant style-guides? Those could be generic styles or major film studies publications. We'd want to see a) what is really needed and b) in what form exactly.

[simifilm]

Here's the style guide for Projections, a major journal for cognitive film studies: http://journals.berghahnbooks.com/proj/proj_style_guide.pdf

The examples they give (page 3):

Hitchcock, Alfred. 1959. North by Northwest. USA. Leoni, Sergio. 1966. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Buono, il brutto, il cattivo). Spain and Italy.

Here's the guideline for montag a/v, an important German publication: http://www.montage-av.de/Stylesheet_fuer_Autoren.pdf

Their examples (page 3):

The Birds (Alfred Hitchcock, USA 1957). Sedmikrásky (Tausendschönchen – kein Märchen, Vera Chytilová, CSSR 1966).

In the second example, the original czech title is first, the German title is in parentheses. Note that in German publications, film titles are often printed in small caps.

[adam3smith]

OK, that's great. So we definitely need the country and a way to deal with translations. (Title's in small caps are possible already btw., csl can put any given part of a citation in small caps). Any example for production firm?

[rmzelle]

Country could probably just be covered by the CSL "event-place" variable.

[simifilm]

Forget about the production firm, I can't find an example for this.

MLA style requires additional fields though; distributor and type of media mandatory, actors and writers can be used (see http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/09/ )

The Usual Suspects. Dir. Bryan Singer. Perf. Kevin Spacey, Gabriel Byrne, Chazz Palminteri, Stephen Baldwin, and Benecio del Toro. Polygram, 1995. Film.

Lucas, George, dir. Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. Twentieth Century Fox, 1977. Film.

Ed Wood. Dir. Tim Burton. Perf. Johnny Depp, Martin Landau, Sarah Jessica Parker, Patricia Arquette. Touchstone, 1994. DVD.

[adam3smith]

The format and distributor field already exist in Zotero. Both can be cited with current CSL mapping - I think they are, but if they're not in MLA we can fix that in the style.

[simifilm]

You're of course right. They exist and are part of the MLA style.

[simifilm]

Some more styles.

The New Review of Film and Television Studies requires the production company (Style guide here: http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/authors/style/reference/tf_F.pdf )

Movie Title. Directed by Mary Smith. Hollywood, CA: Bigshot Productions, 2004.

APA has the following rules (http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/560/11/ )

Producer, P. P. (Producer), & Director, D. D. (Director). (Date of publication). Title of motion picture [Motion picture]. Country of origin: Studio or distributor.

and the following for TV series:

Bellisario, D.L. (Producer). (1992). Exciting action show [Television series]. Hollywood: American Broadcasting Company.

As I've written above: There's a tendency when quoting a whole series (like Lost or The Simpsons) to give the name of the producer(s) and the tv station it first aired/was produced for. I've seen this quite often, but so far APA is the only style I've found where this is formalized.

[adam3smith]

"The New Review of Film and Television Studies requires the production company" I'm not inclined to believe that until I see an example. They want Chicago author-date, which doesn't require the production company. If you actually look at the journal, films are never cited in the bibliography, just mentioned in italics and with date in the text. If you look at the beginning for the thread over at zotero.org we (I believe it's one of ajlyon's posts) explain some of the reasons why we're very conservative with adding variables. It seems to me that the distributor field - maybe re-named distributor/studio - works just fine for film citations.

As for the country - I wonder if we need separate country and place fields or if we could just use "place".

We have "Producer" fields for films and TV Broadcasts in Zotero - they should be mapped and we need a term in csl for producer.

[simifilm]

"Distributor/studio" is fine for me. "Place" also sounds ok.

[simifilm]

I posted this on the Zotero forums a while ago, but just to make sure, I also post it here:

The British Universities Film & Video Council has published guidelines for quoting films, tv shows and other of audio-visual content.

In my opinion these recommendations are a bit over the top; from my experience in film studies you rarely see filmographies which are so fine grained (for example, most of the time, you don't give type or duration which are both mandatory here). But I guess these guidelines are quite useful as an orientation. Once Zotero is able to implement these guidelines, most situations/styles should be covered for audio-visual material.

Here are the different types, the elements in italics are mandatory (for explanations of the element see the guidelines)

Film: Given Title or ‘Clip Title’, Film Title [type, format] Production credit. Production Company/Sponsor/Private, Country of production, year of release. Duration. Start-end timings of extract. [release information, e.g. production company, catalogue number, date of specific edition] or point of access, e.g. archive collection, archive reference, or name of private collection, or original web URL (date of access).

Television: Given Title or ‘Episode/Clip Title’, Main Programme/Series Title, Series No. [type, format] Production credit. ] Production Company/Sponsor/Private, Country of production, transmission time if known, transmission date, transmission channel. Duration. Start-end timings of extract. [release information, e.g. production company, catalogue number, date of specific edition] or point of access if applicable, e.g. archive collection, archive reference, or name of private collection, or original web URL (date of access).

Radio: Given Title or ‘Episode/Clip Title’, Main Programme/Series Title [type, format] Production credit. ] Production Company/Sponsor/Private, Country of production, transmission time if known, transmission date, transmission channel. Duration. Start-end timings of extract. [release information, e.g. production company, catalogue number, date of specific edition] or point of access, e.g. archive collection, archive reference, or name of private collection, or original web URL (date of access).

Other audio: Given Title or ‘Track title’, Main Title [type, format] Production credit. Production Company/Sponsor/Private, Country of production, date of recording if known. Duration. Start-end timings of extract. [release information, e.g. production company, catalogue number, date of specific edition] or point of access, e.g. archive collection, archive reference, or name of private collection, or original web URL (date of access).

New media: Given Title or ‘Track title’, Main Title [type, format] Production credit. Production Company/ Sponsor/Private, Country of production, date created/uploaded/published. Duration. Start-end timings of extract. [release information, e.g. production company, catalogue number, date of specific edition] or point of access, e.g. original web URL (date of access).

[simifilm]

Is there any movement on this? AFAICS there's still no way to assign a country of origin to a movie.

[adam3smith]

no movement on any field and item type changes. Still scheduled for Zotero 4.2

[dstillman]

Related to the title issue: https://github.com/zotero/translators/pull/2069#issuecomment-565958735

Do we think a Translated Title field makes sense?

[bwiernik]

@dstillman Yes, a translated title field makes sense. The use for "Translated Title" would be for translations of a title into the language of the bibliography. So, an item might be cited as: Le petit prince [The little prince]

For items where a translated version was consulted/is being cited, you would cite the translation, so the translation's title would go into title and the original title in a different language would go into original-title.

Jurism/CSLm has alt-title that holds translations and transliterations of titles into various locales. Zotero could likely suffice with just one translated-title field.

CSL will likely adopt a similar variable for name parts (https://github.com/citation-style-language/csl-evolution/issues/29), and is likely to adopt an alt-title or translated-title variable.

[denismaier]

Yes, a translated title field makes sense. The use for "Translated Title" would be for translations of a title into the language of the bibliography. So, an item might be cited as: Le petit prince [The little prince]

At best, this translated title could be set on a per document basis, or you will want to have a way to indicate the language of the translation. Depending on the language of your bibliography you'll use a different translation. That's probably important for international scholars who publish in English and in their native language.

[bwiernik]

@denismaier That's essentially how Jurism's multilingual fields work. In a document, the user specifies the locale of the bibliography, and the alt- forms of fields for that locale are rendered.

My impression is that the most common case is authors publishing in two languages—English and their local language. For that case, a simple translated-title field combined with a CSL style that does/does not include translated-title would suffice. That would avoid the complexity of Jurism's implementation which, while very flexible, is fairly confusing to work with. For the more complex cases of scholars working in many languages or needing fully-multilingual bibliographies, more functionality could likely be added as a plugin to Zotero. Talking with @fbennett about this a while back, it seemed like modularizing the multilingual components of Jurism into a plugin would be possible.

[denismaier]

My impression is that the most common case is authors publishing in two languages—English and their local language. For that case, a simple translated-title field combined with a CSL style that does/does not include translated-title would suffice.

Yes, that is probably the most common case. But the source can be neither in English nor in your local language. Like if I write as a German scholar about "Le petit prince" once in German and once in English. Will a simple translated-title be enough?

That's essentially how Jurism's multilingual fields work. In a document, the user specifies the locale of the bibliography, and the alt- forms of fields for that locale are rendered.

Well, but multilingual fields and alt- forms are not really the same thing... (For one, you usually don't have access to the variants in styles.)

For the more complex cases of scholars working in many languages or needing fully-multilingual bibliographies, more functionality could likely be added as a plugin to Zotero. Talking with @fbennett about this a while back, it seemed like modularizing the multilingual components of Jurism into a plugin would be possible.

That sounds very promising and super-useful. Could be a neat way to bring much of Jurism's additional features back to vanilla Zotero. Unfortunately, I can't really help here :-(

[bwiernik]

Well, but multilingual fields and alt- forms are not really the same thing... (For one, you usually don't have access to the variants in styles.)

Multilingual fields are implemented and rendered with alt- forms: https://citeproc-js.readthedocs.io/en/latest/csl-m/#cs-alternative-extension

And alt- forms of title, container-title, translator, and issued are directly accessible in CSLm styles. https://citeproc-js.readthedocs.io/en/latest/csl-m/#alt-title-extension

[denismaier]

Not sure, but as the docs say: alt- forms are used for reprints, translations and so on. Regarding multilingual fields: I was talking about the mechanism described here. See also this test: https://github.com/Juris-M/citeproc-js/blob/master/fixtures/local/multilingual_ShortTitleVariant.txt

[bwiernik]

From https://citeproc-js.readthedocs.io/en/latest/csl-m/#cs-alternative-extension

Elements within the scope of cs:alternative are rendered only when the value of language contains two valid ISO language codes joined by < or > (to indicate the direction of translation). The two language codes may be identical.

The interface you are linking to is how cs:alternative links up with specific locale forms of the fields.

[denismaier]

Honestly, I have to admit I'm a bit lost here. I just went through a couple of tests to understand how things work, through citeproc-js's changelog and through citeproc-js's integrator manual:

1. The cs:alternative mechanism is a relatively recent addition (added in 1.1.216). But the multilingual mechanism for rendering field variants is older.

2. The data format for multilingual variants is described here.

3. Here are some tests that show ho multilingual variants work. One, another one. There's no cs:alternative in either case. In one case, the variants are controlled by the default-locale="en-US-x-sort-ja-Hrkt"> In the other, there's a special LANGPARAMS section in the test fixture.

4. This test and that one show how the cs:alternative mechanism works. Interestingly, the translated title is saved as a multi-key, but not as alt-title. (So they are indeed more closely related than I thought.) The other variables appear as alt- prefixed variables. Just tested: If I add alt-title, it will use this instead of the variant from the multi variable. So, the variants in multi seem to be a fallback for alt-title? (But will this also work the other way round?)

Perhaps @fbennett can provide some clarifying hints...

[denismaier]

@bwiernik Can we add the Zotero label now that we've almost sorted out the translated-title issue.

[simifilm]

It's more than half a decade later, and it's still not possible to assign the country of origin to a film.

[bwiernik]

@simifilm You can currently enter the country in Zotero in Extra like this: Publisher place: Toronto, Canada