Stealth Crawlers(or just tanky)

[GreenCurve]

Describe what you would like changed, and why. Rn crawlers aren't that usefull beside being just meatshield.It will be nice if they receive some kind of buff or ability that will give them more survivability.My suggestion - turn off turrets and units autoattack on them till they are not illuminated by illuminator or light from any working building (At night).During the day,they can be attacked by AI of units/turrets as any other units.

Also you can buff their speed and make their target priority lowest among all units ( Turrets will choose crawlers as targets only if there is no any other unit on the line of sight) .

Describe the changes you want to propose. Include possible alternatives.

[itcannotbe]

The person on the receiving end isn't put into consideration with this suggestion.

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

@itcannotbe im very sorry to point this out but your comment is unreadable with the amount of errors there is (i'll leave to you discover them) omg i can't seem to type english myself

[tezlm]

@XxsuperdeadlysniperxX i understood itcannotbe

they mean:

The person who is being attacked isn't put into consideration with this suggestion.

also i think this is a good suggestion

[itcannotbe]

How on earth would you detect stealth units?

[GaiaB0t]

would YOU want to fight a swarm of these things you are suggesting?

[itcannotbe]

would YOU want to fight a swarm of these things you are suggesting?

https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry-Suggestions/issues/1588#issuecomment-747778897

Exactly my point.

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

oH i read it wrong, how you ask? Thw wording is weird

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

The thing with this suggestion is there would have to be a spotlight because you can't just put a illuminator in or near the enemies or they'll just destroy, and also illuminators are local light so it only has a limited range, which isn't very big

[G-mage]

omg i can't seem to type english myself

then why would you point out other peoples mistakes?

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

Idk🤦‍♀️🤔

[SuperficialIntelligence]

You underestimate the destructive capabilities of a crawler swarm.

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

@SuperficialIntelligence i haven't underestimated their power i know if you have enough crawlers and you sent them to attack in pvp (currently) the crawlers would just die because of the other teams defenses however if this were the campaign on a procedural sector and you have a seed for the map to have mostly crawlers and you only had a defense with ammo on the way then the crawlers would essentially just punch a huge hole in your wall and you'd have a huge problem especially if the waves are fast is mostly what i meant but ALL of this changes (pvp) or makes terrifyingly worse (campaign) if the stealth gets implemented because if you think about it how are supposed to see a small mech in the darkness if the unit could basically vanish off the guns radar (camo) the answer is the gun(s) can't see it because to them it doesn't even exist thus you need light to see the "object" (in the players case unit) in order for that (those)gun(s) To fire

I hope this makes sense?

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

If the above makes no sense heres a simplified version

Before suggestion: crawlers at night would die no matter what because guns

After suggestion: crawlers are invisible until illuminated unless theres a gun upgrade the allows them to see at night or a gun or something

Which this would make crawlers 100% more of a viable option at night also EXTREMELY over powered (op)

[GreenCurve]

If the above makes no sense heres a simplified version

Before suggestion: crawlers at night would die no matter what because guns

After suggestion: crawlers are invisible until illuminated unless theres a gun upgrade the allows them to see at night or a gun or something

Which this would make crawlers 100% more of a viable option at night also EXTREMELY over powered (op)

Basically,i only want to make crawlers a bit usefullier with sugg.I imagine it myself as some spidermines that sneaky rushes to the defences thought the darkness or crawling amond relief while turrets are busy with other threats.Yes, crawlers will became much more powerfull,but

1. New strats are always cool,aspesually when it gives some new horizonts to reach.

2. Crawlers wont be that op.They are still just a seppuku spidermine and illuminators arent that costly. And my first idea btw was that any light(even from something like Ripple`s shots ) can decloack them

3. If crawlers recive new ability to "sneak rush" while turrets busy, pvp players have new nice strat to win game by face-to-face combat,not by sabotage attacks from behind/overwhelming amount of t5.Good defence will matter mush more then t5/mass t4 rush

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

@GreenCurve i agree with ya that crawlers do need to be more useful so they can be used more often right now tho they simply exist with one purpose: go to enemy, die on enemy by either detonation or defenses

[Kyllingene]

1. New strats are always cool,aspesually when it gives some new horizonts to reach.

2. Crawlers wont be that op.They are still just a seppuku spidermine and illuminators arent that costly. And my first idea btw was that any light(even from something like Ripple`s shots ) can decloack them

3. If crawlers recive new ability to "sneak rush" while turrets busy, pvp players have new nice strat to win game by face-to-face combat,not by sabotage attacks from behind/overwhelming amount of t5.Good defence will matter mush more then t5/mass t4 rush

For one, you used the new strat reason twice (both # 1 and # 3 are just saying "new strats good"). For another thing, crawlers had the ability to be powerful even when they blew up on conveyors. Now that they don't, buffing them again could be a big problem, because of how cheap they are, how many you can make, and how quickly. And yes, illuminators cost silicon, so those are a little too costly to just let die.

[GreenCurve]

1. New strats are always cool,aspesually when it gives some new horizonts to reach.

2. Crawlers wont be that op.They are still just a seppuku spidermine and illuminators arent that costly. And my first idea btw was that any light(even from something like Ripple`s shots ) can decloack them

3. If crawlers recive new ability to "sneak rush" while turrets busy, pvp players have new nice strat to win game by face-to-face combat,not by sabotage attacks from behind/overwhelming amount of t5.Good defence will matter mush more then t5/mass t4 rush

For one, you used the new strat reason twice (both # 1 and # 3 are just saying "new strats good"). For another thing, crawlers had the ability to be powerful even when they blew up on conveyors. Now that they don't, buffing them again could be a big problem, because of how cheap they are, how many you can make, and how quickly. And yes, illuminators cost silicon, so those are a little too costly to just let die.

Sadly enough,they are only ok rn. They have nice dmg for their cost ,but they need some kind of survivability to be able to deal their dmg.They cost silicon and coal,(coal are pretty valueble at any game stage) and in compare to daggers/novas they deal to low dmg without proper support.And if you reach that stage that you are able to support them,its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

Yet their still considered an attack drone by many people

[GreenCurve]

its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side

their silicon cost is way to big for early game,while can be countered by a single ripple.At the late/mid game they just become mostly useless,cuz of cyclons/revenants. The only way to use them at the late game is harass drops behind all defences i suppose?even so,a few lancers can quickly stop this

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

You gotta point there

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:32 AM GreenCurve @.***> wrote:

its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side

their silicon cost is way to big for early game,while can be countered by a single ripple.At the late/mid game they just become mostly useless,cuz of cyclons/revenants. The only way to use them at the late game is harass drops behind all defences i suppose?even so,a few lancers can quickly stop this

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[GreenCurve]

its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side

and you know,to effectively be "distracting swarm" they have to be much faster.Rn they are literally oneshoted by most turrets,and even if there is no turrets,damage they can perform is kinda low. What the first thing comes to your head when you think of kamikaze drones? Its neither steathy spidermines, creeping and waiting in the dark for their target, or swarms of fast ships that suddenly attack from the skies,while defences are disracted on smt else

[GreenCurve]

You gotta point there … On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:32 AM GreenCurve @.***> wrote: its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side their silicon cost is way to big for early game,while can be countered by a single ripple.At the late/mid game they just become mostly useless,cuz of cyclons/revenants. The only way to use them at the late game is harass drops behind all defences i suppose?even so,a few lancers can quickly stop this — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1588 (comment)>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/APA55FFZZORKVSYIJISDUHDTIRBXLANCNFSM4VANA27Q .

wdym?

[XxsuperdeadlysniperxX]

-_-

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 8:39 AM GreenCurve @.***> wrote:

its already some more efficient ways to harass/overwhelm enemy

Crawlers are mostly used as a distraction anyway their not much of an attack unit theres a mech called "swarm drones" you see a "swarm drone" is huge number of tiny drones that are meant to distract/harrass the enemy long enough to execute a flank attack or go for the area the crawlers were going because the ammo is much lower also crawlers are good against people with a under developed defense too cuz they little to no ammo going to that side

and you know,to effectively be "distracting swarm" they have to be much faster.Rn they are literally oneshoted by most turrets,and even if there is no turrets,damage they can perform is kinda low. What the first thing comes to your head when you think of kamikaze drones? Its neither steathy spidermines, creeping and waiting in the dark for their target, or swarms of fast ships that suddenly attack from the skies,while defences are disracted on smt else

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[GreenCurve]

?

[Kyllingene]

Even if crawlers are currently underpowered, the correct solution is not to make them the most aggravating unit in the game.

[itcannotbe]

Crawlers are suicide bombers. They just need to be effective not overpowered.

[GreenCurve]

Crawlers are suicide bombers. They just need to be effective not overpowered. ...and that is what i am trying to suggest? Rn they are just mostly useless? I mean,even if you take their ability to explode and just give them +33% hp they prob will be more viable. So, im trying to suggest ways to make them more efficent in delivering themselfs to the enemy with succesfull exploding after that. It will be nice if they will be fitted in current strats not as meatshield but us dmg dealers

[GreenCurve]

Even if crawlers are currently underpowered, the correct solution is not to make them the most aggravating unit in the game. Ok, so what do you think will make them usefull but not annoing?

[Kyllingene]

How about make them deal a little more damage along with an increase to the max number of crawlers per core? Stat balances don't all have to be HP.

[GreenCurve]

How about make them deal a little more damage along with an increase to the max number of crawlers per core? Stat balances don't all have to be HP.

Its probably a way, but i suppose that rn the problem with crawlers is not lack of dmg but lack of ability to be able to succesfully explode near smth without being killed. So the main idea of giving them some kind of survivability/stealth/low priority is to be able to succesfully come close enoth to enemy,not just die form single ripple. Max number is basically the same. Yeah,we have mo crawlers,but what the point if ripples will eat em` all no matter how much it is of them ;)

[Kyllingene]

Fair point, but once again, making them annoying would not help. Also, how would making them low-priority help anything? Either they are alone, and get shot, or they are in a group with other units, and get shot.

[itcannotbe]

Not accounting for logic controlled turrets is not a great idea in determining balance.

[GreenCurve]

Fair point, but once again, making them annoying would not help. Also, how would making them low-priority help anything? Either they are alone, and get shot, or they are in a group with other units, and get shot.

suppose while othres are tank crawlers are making their way to the target?

[GreenCurve]

Not accounting for logic controlled turrets is not a great idea in determining balance.

can you refrase?

[Kyllingene]

can you refrase?

You need to take into account the fact that people can use logic to make turrets target crawlers anyway.

suppose while othres are tank crawlers are making their way to the target?

See the above explanation.

[GreenCurve]

can you refrase?

You need to take into account the fact that people can use logic to make turrets target crawlers anyway.

suppose while othres are tank crawlers are making their way to the target?

See the above explanation.

suppose you r better to reexplain your arguments? Too many of them,and idk waht exact you mean

[GreenCurve]

Not accounting for logic controlled turrets is not a great idea in determining balance.

If you relly want there is a way to avoid even it i suppose? Something like just inability to see them even as processors,idk

[Kyllingene]

Something like just inability to see them even as processors,idk

Preventing something from being seen by processors is a hacky and ugly way to balance something.

[GreenCurve]

Something like just inability to see them even as processors,idk

Preventing something from being seen by processors is a hacky and ugly way to balance something.

No i suppose,not quite ? And even if not stealth/low priority, crawlers are obviusly need some kind of survivability buff,no matter direct or indirect .Alredy explained why, if you relly want i can repeat it

[Kyllingene]

And I suggested other means of that, but I still think stealth crawlers would be aggravating to fight.

[GreenCurve]

And I suggested other means of that, but I still think stealth crawlers would be aggravating to fight.

prob ye,but you need neither health boost (direct,not really cool and supposedly not annoing) or some ability to avoid fire at some circumstances (inderect, cool ,but probably annoing)

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