Concept: new air unit tree, based on the old javelin mech pad.

Describe the content or mechanics you are proposing.

Back in v5 I always enjoyed using the javelin mech, even if it was outclassed by trident and glaive. I am well aware that the old implementation of the javelin would not be useful in the current game, but I still feel like there is potential for a javelin unit tree given that it is such a fast and unique unit. I'm aware that coding another unit tree would be a lot of work and if you aren't looking for more unit trees right now then id probably just skip this feature request and move on. However if you are looking for ideas for units then here are a few of mine.

Javelin (t1 air). Requires 30 silicon, 15 metaglass, and 5 phase fabric. This unit is mainly meant for supply and fire control, and is equipped with a small wave turret, a size 40 cargo hold, and a very high top speed with a slow acceleration. This unit, when left idle, will automatically detect fires and fly to the location of them, and when it reaches top speed it gains a 99% resistance to all damage dealt by non electric weapons (allowing it to fly over enemy bases just like the javelin mech could).

Proboscis (t2 air). This unit is equipped with a fast mining speed, a modified parallax turret, and a size 30 cargo hold that can store different types of material. When left idle, it will pathfind to enemy blocks that are not protected by enemy turrets, or units that cannot shoot it down, and attack them using the parallax turret. It deals small amounts of damage, but the proboscis leaches the materials needed to build that unit or block equal to (damage)/(1.5 x block/unit max health), storing them in the cargo hold, and if the damage/s dealt by proboscises is over 5% of the unit/blocks max health, then blocks will be disabled and units will be stopped, as if by logic. The damage dealt by proboscis cannot be healed (to prevent material duplication).

Aegis (t3 air). This unit is equipped with two small segment turrets and building capability. It will automatically seek out groups of units such as squads, especially those controlled by players or those attacking some unit or structure, and will use the segment turrets to defend against incoming bullets or missiles. Additionally, whenever damage is taken by a unit, that damage will be shared equally among all nearby aegis.

Tachyon (t4 air). This unit is equipped with a small health pool but a very high speed, along with a weak (120% speed) but mobile overdrive projector that also works on units. Like aegis, it will join groups of units to increase their speed and damage output. It can also pick up blocks and units.

Chronos (t5 air). This unit has no offensive weapons, is slow, and has a very low HP pool, but carries a weak (170% speed) but mobile overdrive dome that not only works on units but also disables any enemy overdrive projectors or overdrive domes within range. To power the overdrive dome, the unit draws large amounts of power from any nearby power grid, allied or enemy alike. This can be weaponised into crashing the opponents power grid by drawing too much and disabling the overdrives. It has no other special effects.

Describe how you think this content will improve the game. If you're proposing new content, mention how it may add more gameplay options or how it will fill a new niche.

Systematically:

Javelin. I feel like this unit would help in logic for long distance item transportation. Typically any flares, the current fastest unit in the game, would be annihilated when trying to cross any enemy base due to their low HP pool. If javelin was implemented in the way suggested here however, it would become possible for units to traverse enemy bases and feed outposts of ripples, or suchlike. These units would be restricted to late game due to their reliance on phase fabric, just like the old javelin mech, but they would make a big contribution to late-game unit transportation while still not being too overpowered. Additionally I feel like we need some sort of fire-response unit in the game and javelin fits that description perfectly: being able to quickly respond to any fire no matter where or when it is would be a big help since waves and tsunamis take entirely too long to build.

Proboscis. I feel like this unit would be a good addition to the game just for supplying you with additional resources and automatic deconstruction once you capture parts of an enemy base. Right now when you destroy things in attack maps the detritus is usually just left until you kill the core at the heart of the base, and in multiplayer it is often not cleaned up at all. Proboscis would fit this niche perfectly: refunding you for your efforts in destruction while also passively cleaning up everything nearby. While it deals low damage it would also be a good counter for very difficult attack maps in multiplayer, or for chipping away at t5 units, since the damage it deals cannot be healed. And lastly the suspension of blocks that are being damaged is very strong, but the low damage means that you really have to make a lot of proboscises to actually get this effect to happen, and so it becomes more of a "unit race" similar to how v5 pvp worked.

Aegis. I feel like this unit would be good making squad strategies more viable. Often units in squads will get picked off one-by-one by hails and ripples, fuses, or foreshadows, and the issue with squads is that the more that this happens, the less damage they deal. Aegis would act sort of like a meatshield, protecting the damaging units from high damage single shots and shooting down a lot of the AOE bullets, while also acting as a counter to some of the most powerful turrets in the game. I think this unit overall would just be a good way of flattening out the playing field when it comes to strategies, and would also unlock a lot of potential for new ones.

Tachyon. The goal of this unit is to protect it at all costs. It greatly increases the damage and speed of squads of units and the more there are the higher the bonus since the ratio of damaging units to tachyon is greater, but the flipside is that it is very weak and vulnerable. It is still a support unit, but it is the flipside of aegis: powerful offensively but weak defensively, and you have to play around that weakness to get the most out of the unit.

Chronos. This unit is, again, weak for its tier, but extremely damaging if you can get it to work. Like oct has a shield, it can be stationed as a mobile overdrive, but its primary use is to fly alongside other t5 units and make them faster and deal more damage. Another of its features it that it would wreak serious havoc on defences if its allowed to get close: by disabling overdrives and leaching huge amounts of power off of the enemy grid it effectively renders the base helpless to other allied t5s. The difficulty comes however in getting close enough with the low hp pool to actually trigger these effects, and so it becomes a game of strategy.

Overall i still think the javelin tree has a lot of potential as a support class, especially given that wave, tsunami, parallax, and segment all lack units that use their respective abilities. The overdrive units (t4 and t5) might not be feasible or balanced in the current game, but i definitely think that the units 1-3 have good uses since they are almost the inversions of the flare, the mono/poly, and the zenith. I also think the community would enjoy seeing some new units, especially if we are getting the new planets in v7.

Before making this issue, place an X in the boxes below to confirm that you have acknowledged them. Failure to do so may result in your request being closed automatically.

- [X] I have done a quick search in the list of suggestions to make sure this has not been suggested yet.

(javelin unit has been suggested before but I couldn't find anything as detailed as what im proposing here)

- [X] I have checked the Trello to make sure my suggestion isn't planned or implemented in a development version.
- [X] I am familiar with all the content already in the game or have glanced at the wiki to make sure my suggestion doesn't exist in the game yet.
- [X] I have read README.md to make sure my idea is not listed under the "A few things you shouldn't suggest" category.

I like your ideas, however there are issues : Javein is just broken, as much as it can be : when logic is used, aircraft goes at max speed right oof the bat, so you can make it go back and forth and get invicibilty (since it has 99%damage reduction) and shield units

No, because anyone with half a brain can use waves strategically to slow them down enough to shoot them.

Proboscis is also broken, if what you say is to be added, the damage dealt by them won't be healable, and that hurts a lot in survival and attack.

They deal low damage and only target undefended blocks. So, the solution? Defend your stuff. Also, it's only unable to be healed if it is actively being attacked by a proboscis.

Tachyons looks like they're gonna be underpoawered when you can get your first T4s, then broken way in the late game (because of the overdriving effect)

But because of their low health, you just throw some good AA at it and it melts. Personally, doesn't seem overly hard to counter.

For tachyon and chronos, if the overdrives take power, the it's probably gonna be an ammo thing : if ammo is turned off (which it is most of the time since ammo is such a pain), it will probably not work, and you'll get overdrives that don't need power.

True, they will need large amounts of materials. However, even if that is a viable concern for the tachyon, it is not for the chronos, as the entire point of that unit is that it takes large amounts of power from any nearby energy grid to power the dome is has. If you are truly worried about the overdrive capabilities of the tachyon, exchange them for this.

Well not really, waves aren't a solution, since they're single target, and you'll have to place them all around your base, it might not sound bad since the units cost phase but people can just phase rush in PvP to get an unfair advantage with the route + logic.Also it wasn't said to be unable to be healed only when attacked by a proboscis, it would allow item duplication. Probscis deal low damage, but unrepairable damage, and how do you know the block is undefended in the first place ? And again, if maybe instead of playing built-in PvP maps you tried actually good ones (the built-in ones are really bad) Tachyons are too easy to counter and I said that. And I'm worried about the overdriving because it will probably count as an ammo thing, not because it takes way too much power. And if it's an ammo thing, then most of the time it'll be turned off.

unrepairable damage

Just make it so that the damage can only be repaired 5 seconds after it has stopped being dealt.

how do you know the block is undefended in the first place

Simply check all turrets or units nearby, and if the range of any of them is greater than or equal to its distance from the block, it is defended.

And again, if maybe instead of playing built-in PvP maps you tried actually good ones (the built-in ones are really bad)

There seems to be a point you were going to make, then forgot to. As it stands, this line says absolutely nothing. In fact, it isn't even a valid sentence.

Tachyons are too easy to counter and I said that.

Early game, you say they are underpowered, then late game, are overpowered. If a T4 would be bad early-game, why does that matter? And, as has been shown, they are useful but not overpowered late-game.

And I'm worried about the overdriving because it will probably count as an ammo thing, not because it takes way too much power. And if it's an ammo thing, then most of the time it'll be turned off.

Which is it? Are you worried about too much overdrive, or not enough? Pick one.

Either way, however, neither the overdrive of the Chronos nor the Tachyon is "overpowered" in any sense. They are weak overdrives, and if you recall, overdrives of the same source do not stack. For example, two overdrive projectors do not stack, but an overdrive projector and an overdrive dome do stack. So, a Chronos and a Tachyon could stack, but not a Chronos and a Chronos. If you find that too weak, simply add a diminishing stack to the overdrives.

This is a large suggestion. If this gets implemented, it will be v7 or v8, and even that is a relatively low chance if it is left to Anuke. The only real chance this stands of getting implemented is if one of the busy contributors decides this is worth the effort and manages to implement this in a style and fashion that Anuke likes.

This suggestion, however, has very few problems for such a large suggestion. Spidroxide, good on you for thinking through this so well. The opposition seems to just be that you do not want another unit tree. However, if anything, this seems like a good fit for #1897. If you can show a good reason why a new unit tree is a truly bad idea, you have won the (53 comment!) debate. Why? Because even if you point out a flaw in a unit, you have shown only that a single unit requires rebalancing, which isn't bad, but your opposition seems to be against the idea as a whole.

Well no... You can't make repairable damage if you don't want item duplication... And having to attack undefended blocks with a unit that costs phase essentially means that by the time you can prperly make them the dude just spammed guns around the base to make himself look protected to the AI... And I think you didnt' get why they're OP : essentially it would be free OD on everything, and even know it's weaker, it doesn't consume anything. And even know they are weak, they can help a lot And "only a unit recquires reblanacing" except that more than one would need to in this situation Even if it happens many units won't even fit in the game correctly, I'd much rather tell Anuke to balance existing units and make the pointless ones less pointless than tell him to code a whole other route, it's just stupid.

And having to attack undefended blocks with a unit that costs phase essentially means that by the time you can prperly make them the dude just spammed guns around the base to make himself look protected to the AI...

Read the suggestion. You will see that it is to take advantage both of undefended enemy structures and scrap left behind by their destroyed defenses.

You can't make repairable damage if you don't want item duplication...

No, but you can mitigate it greatly. And either way, if you are using logic to duplicate items, the enemy just has to be careful not to leave menders behind. Once again, seems quite easy to counter.

And I think you didnt' get why they're OP : essentially it would be free OD on everything, and even know it's weaker, it doesn't consume anything.

Except for the fact that it is weak overdrive held by an expensive, low-hp, high-tier unit that you can only have so many of.

And "only a unit recquires reblanacing" except that more than one would need to in this situation

Except for the fact that you have shown nothing particularly wrong with any unit, no more so than already existing units (mega much?), and have failed to show a single problem with the idea itself.

Even if it happens many units won't even fit in the game correctly, I'd much rather tell Anuke to balance existing units

Support naval is coming, despite several people thinking that it does little to nothing due to being stuck in the water. Some people even scorn the base naval tree, for the same reason. Should we remove those?

and make the pointless ones less pointless than tell him to code a whole other route, it's just stupid.

Goodbye support naval! Oh wait, he's implementing that.

No, but you can mitigate it greatly. And either way, if you are using logic to duplicate items, the enemy just has to be careful not to >leave menders behind. Once again, seems quite easy to counter.

So you're litterally telling me that the enemy is gonna have the capacity to just get items when attacking (taking out some of the enemy's things preferably + getting ressources from it, while possibly not losing units )? ANd you can have the same amount of units of any tier, 24 of them is the "normal" cap, and it's far more than enough. The overdrive actually works on units which only minkes could do until now, and it's better than minke's OD, idk how you got that even know it was weaker than ODs it was bad.

Goodbye support naval! Oh wait, he's implementing that.

I didn't say to not implement new routes. I said that it would be better to first balance other routes, and as I know, adding one more route to balance can only mean that making more routes will need to wait even more because there will be one more route to balance.

So you're litterally telling me that the enemy is gonna have the capacity to just get items when attacking

Only undefended things. Some turrets cannot be controlled with logic, so could these units. Or, they could just be prevented from attacking defended buildings both in the pathfinding logic and the attacking logic.

adding one more route to balance can only mean that making more routes will need to wait even more because there will be one more route to balance.

That is why I said this would probably be v8, and that it would probably only get implemented if someone besides Anuke does it to Anukes satisfaction.

Well actually, it can only be v8 if Anuke doesn't re balance other units, else it would take too long with the new planets and other mechanics to tweak / upgrade (it will probably be needed). Even know Anuke will of course not jump on v8 as soon as v7 is done, in v6 there hasn't been much balancement still. I just don't think that even if the route is good it can't be implemented except in a distant future.

This is most certainly a suggestion destined to the potential future.

This suggestion is now stale, and will be automatically closed.

Anuken / Mindustry-Suggestions

Concept: new air unit tree, based on the old javelin mech pad. #2186