Installer

[dsroyall56]

Why was the installer removed? The override directory cannot be easily deleted if Steam is installed in c:\Program Files(i86).

[CaptainX3]

It caused more confusion than it was worth, both for users and for developers (accidentally mixing up files etc). My Steam is installed in that directory, deleting the override folder isn't difficult. I keep a shortcut to that directory right on my desktop for that reason.

[dsroyall56]

No doubt you can hear my eyes rolling wherever you are. If the devs aren’t bright enough to realize all the files they want to add to the game basically go into the override directory (with a few exceptions), that’s just sad. Any account with administrator privileges on Windows can write to a subdirectory in the Program Files tree, but only accounts with the full administrator privilege (such as the actual Administrator account) have Delete privilege for that subdirectory. That means I cannot delete the override directory from my regular account, and that’s not cool.

Yeah, I know Steam allows you to create supplemental libraries on other drives, and this laptop is blessed with two. However, my SSD is a 1TB primary!

From: CaptainX3 notifications@github.com Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 22:11 To: CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs CW-Playable-Subs@noreply.github.com Cc: Scott Royall royall@conchbbs.com; Author author@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs] Installer (#60)

It caused more confusion than it was worth, both for users and for developers (accidentally mixing up files etc). My Steam is installed in that directory, deleting the override folder isn't difficult. I keep a shortcut to that directory right on my desktop for that reason.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs/issues/60#issuecomment-403184450 , or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AjEihuVJK7ZYPyn7lf_4LbtKXMpWZVCMks5uECbJgaJpZM4VGMi7 . https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AjEihlg_beK3oEa-Hb3oXVo4Tfad2M7yks5uECbJgaJpZM4VGMi7.gif

[CaptainX3]

Actually, if you had any idea how the back end of the installer worked, you would realize how easy it is to mix up files before uploading the whole mess. And I was the one accidentally mixing up files, I got sick of dealing with it. You're entitled to your opinion, but the installer is gone from the mod, so I guess it's up to you to find a way to work around it. If you feel the devs, including myself, are not bright enough for you, feel free to make your own mod or move along to something else.

[dsroyall56]

There was a time when I had to maintain the installer for my assistive communication application so I’m no stranger to the complexities involved. Don’t confuse the value of your mods with the difficulty in deleting subdirectories in certain directory trees imposed by Windows. Copying to one of those subdirectories is easy enough for most Windows users to cope with, but deleting subdirectories to update a mod is beyond most of them. How does being difficult to update do anything good for your mod? It’s a great mod. If only the user didn’t have to delete the override directory every time there's an update.

One solution: update all the files used by your mods every time, even if that means replacing previous files with empties if you no longer need them.

From: CaptainX3 notifications@github.com Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 20:52 To: CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs CW-Playable-Subs@noreply.github.com Cc: Scott Royall royall@conchbbs.com; Author author@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs] Installer (#60)

Actually, if you had any idea how the back end of the installer worked, you would realize how easy it is to mix up files before uploading the whole mess. And I was the one accidentally mixing up files, I got sick of dealing with it. You're entitled to your opinion, but the installer is gone from the mod, so I guess it's up to you to find a way to work around it. If you feel the devs, including myself, are not bright enough for you, feel free to make your own mod or move along to something else.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, https://github.com/CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs/issues/60#issuecomment-403255608 view it on GitHub, or https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AjEihsJbnVgkKSCqlLgiUZucJf7fT4h2ks5uEWW8gaJpZM4VGMi7 mute the thread. https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AjEihieLualMaxPoBaOK56OwVTVZrM5Dks5uEWW8gaJpZM4VGMi7.gif

[CaptainX3]

The confusion part has to do with how the installer was designed (I did not design it myself) along with the optional submarine list. The way it was set up, it required keeping multiple copies of the mod with certain lists of files in order to make the installer work, and doing it that way made it way too easy to upload the wrong set of files to the wrong area.

In all fairness, you're the only one who has reported this issue to me, whereas we had a multitude of requests to get rid of the installer and go back to the old way.

Come to think of it, your last reply made me realize something - the installer would still work for you, even if we didn't keep including it with the mod. Basically, the installer is just a program with the .exe and the PBS mod folder which then holds the current override folder of the mod. The list of optional submarines is located in the PBS Mod/override/vessels folder.

In your case, you could open that optional submarines list (can't remember the exact name of it but it'll be obvious) and empty it out of everything. Then, delete everything else out of the override folder except the vessels folder and that optional submarine list, which is now blank. Copy over the override folder from the current version of the mod into the PBS Mod folder, which will the install all mod files plus that extra blank optional subs list. Then use the installer like normal, and just skip the optional submarines tab in the installer when you run it. That should work perfectly.

[dsroyall56]

I think we had about the same idea at the same time. Unfortunately, I’m typing this in an emergency room so I’ll get back with you later today if I can avoid being admitted.

From: CaptainX3 notifications@github.com Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 22:06 To: CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs CW-Playable-Subs@noreply.github.com Cc: Scott Royall royall@conchbbs.com; Author author@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs] Installer (#60)

The confusion part has to do with how the installer was designed (I did not design it myself) along with the optional submarine list. The way it was set up, it required keeping multiple copies of the mod with certain lists of files in order to make the installer work, and doing it that way made it way too easy to upload the wrong set of files to the wrong area.

In all fairness, you're the only one who has reported this issue to me, whereas we had a multitude of requests to get rid of the installer and go back to the old way.

Come to think of it, your last reply made me realize something - the installer would still work for you, even if we didn't keep including it with the mod. Basically, the installer is just a program with the .exe and the PBS mod folder which then holds the current override folder of the mod. The list of optional submarines is located in the PBS Mod/override/vessels folder.

In your case, you could open that optional submarines list (can't remember the exact name of it but it'll be obvious) and empty it out of everything. Then, delete everything else out of the override folder except the vessels folder and that optional submarine list, which is now blank. Copy over the override folder from the current version of the mod into the PBS Mod folder, which will the install all mod files plus that extra blank optional subs list. Then use the installer like normal, and just skip the optional submarines tab in the installer when you run it. That should work perfectly.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, https://github.com/CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs/issues/60#issuecomment-403258443 view it on GitHub, or https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AjEihixt4isLyafADA2lEVYCRdMaiBQkks5uEXcmgaJpZM4VGMi7 mute the thread. https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AjEihrfgUqGgWxjMh9YxGKEJIUU5R_n9ks5uEXcmgaJpZM4VGMi7.gif

[dsroyall56]

Whew, that was close.

Ok, your suggestion unfortunately has the same issue as what I contacted you about. An average user account doesn't have delete access to the C:\Program Files tree from the UI. Directories (folders) are just another file type. Paradoxically, that same average user account can run a program that does the exact same deletions. The logic behind this contradiction is based on the reality that most users are morons, and Microsoft knows all too well how easily the average user can accidentally delete something critical in C:\Program Files or C:\Windows using the UI. Even my personal account, which has full administrator privileges, is unable to do deletions in those folder trees with the UI. Running a program, however, is considered a deliberate act, and, if that program attempts a write or delete in either of those folder trees, a privilege escalation operation occurs and most users must enter the administrator’s password to continue. Windows then assumes this user knows what he’s doing.

The reason why you haven't other complaints about removing the installer may be due to a quirk of Windows history. File system security wasn’t always so granular and there was a time when you pretty had to use the administrator's account to install programs. Many users got lazy and started using the administrator account for daily activities, sometimes even renaming as their personal account. That practice often continues today too. Perhaps you do it.

The other solution I hesitate to offer is that you assign responsibility for the installer to me since I’m the one complaining. I hesitate because, quite frankly, my health and financial situation make it unlikely that I will be around much longer, and I have a real problem with people making commitments they know they can’t keep. On the other hand, the installer I have in mind is very simple and should be valid as long as CW uses the current folder tree layout. I would start with the source code of the retired installer, reusing the portion that locates CW’s override folder. Then I would add just two steps:

1. Delete that folder if it exists.
2. Copy over your override folder.

Yes, quite simple-minded, although with a couple of virtues. First, it deals with the file privilege issue discussed above. And second, it assures your mod always goes in a clean folder. Sure, users could still try merging other mods with yours, but at least you know they are starting out fresh if they run the installer first.

I’d probably implement my two additional steps just with system calls for simplicity. I’m a firm believer in making the OS do as much of the grunt work as possible. All you would need to do is place the installer in the root folder of your mod so it knows your override folder is right beside it. Then users could either continue applying your mod as they have been, or they could run the installer.

What do you think?

From: CaptainX3 notifications@github.com Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 22:06 To: CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs CW-Playable-Subs@noreply.github.com Cc: Scott Royall royall@conchbbs.com; Author author@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs] Installer (#60)

The confusion part has to do with how the installer was designed (I did not design it myself) along with the optional submarine list. The way it was set up, it required keeping multiple copies of the mod with certain lists of files in order to make the installer work, and doing it that way made it way too easy to upload the wrong set of files to the wrong area.

In all fairness, you're the only one who has reported this issue to me, whereas we had a multitude of requests to get rid of the installer and go back to the old way.

Come to think of it, your last reply made me realize something - the installer would still work for you, even if we didn't keep including it with the mod. Basically, the installer is just a program with the .exe and the PBS mod folder which then holds the current override folder of the mod. The list of optional submarines is located in the PBS Mod/override/vessels folder.

In your case, you could open that optional submarines list (can't remember the exact name of it but it'll be obvious) and empty it out of everything. Then, delete everything else out of the override folder except the vessels folder and that optional submarine list, which is now blank. Copy over the override folder from the current version of the mod into the PBS Mod folder, which will the install all mod files plus that extra blank optional subs list. Then use the installer like normal, and just skip the optional submarines tab in the installer when you run it. That should work perfectly.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/CaptainX3/CW-Playable-Subs/issues/60#issuecomment-403258443 , or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AjEihixt4isLyafADA2lEVYCRdMaiBQkks5uEXcmgaJpZM4VGMi7 . https://github.com/notifications/beacon/AjEihrfgUqGgWxjMh9YxGKEJIUU5R_n9ks5uEXcmgaJpZM4VGMi7.gif

[dsroyall56]

Too bad you didn't agree.