Improve farming

[MarkuBu]

Farlands adds some new items to farming, but the only food I use is bread. There are two main reasons:

1. Bread gives the most saturation as far as I could see
2. Crops like potatoes rot too fast, as mentioned in #127

To make farming more attractive some thoughts for discussion.

• Increase growing time of the crops and let them stay much longer in "mature" state.
• Add some more crops like lettuce, soy and so on.
• Some crops only can be found in backyards or can be purchased as seeds from a trader.
• Currently it is faster if you harvest with a sword. Would make more sense with a scythe or a sickle. (Ironically the german word for scythe is "Sense" ;) )
• add a rot state to all crops, to make it consistent.

List of crops

• Carrot
• Corn
• Melon
• Potato
• Pumpkin
• Radish
• Cotton
• Wheat

A few suggestions for new crops

• Lettuce
• Soybeans
• Strawberries
• Onion
• Garlic
• Rice

Rice must be planted on dirt under water.

New items

• compost bin
• scythe or sickle, probably both

In the compost bin you can make compost from crops and other plant stuff like grass and leaves

New nodes

• garden soil

Garden soil is made of compost and dirt. Crops grow faster on this soil and no water source is needed

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu new textures

rotten cotton (cotton dead)

rotten_wheat

bamboo fiber

Crow

crow.zip

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu also having propper wild crops wuld be good

[MarkuBu]

Ok, let me take a look to the code... Tomorrow

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu Ok :)

[MarkuBu]

Yeh that was a problem d00med tryed to fix it but it didn't work :/

It's a bit confusing what happens there. The general problem is, that the farming mod doesn't know a "mature" or "rot" state. It only knows states and it automatically steps from the first to the last state.

I try to add a mature state and stay in this state for a while.

The potatoes have a mature state and a 5% chance to rot, the corn has no mature state and grows as before.

But another issue is, that wheat has 7 states until mature, cotton has 8, but potatoes, corn and so on only have 4 states until mature. The number of stages defines the growing time.

I suggest to add more states to seasonal crops like potatoes and corn, crops like lettuce or radish can have 3 or 4 states because they grow faster.

And I would increase the grow interval because I think, crops grow too fast

[MarkuBu]

And by the way... radish is spelled with one "d", not with two

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu is it possible to make it take longer to grow with code? Making these stage textures is a nightmare it takes forever :/ I'm willing to do it though.

[tobyplowy]

And by the way... radish is spelled with one "d", not with two

Yeah you're probably going to find the couple throughout farlands XD

[MarkuBu]

Currently the average grow time from stage to stage is the same for all corps. But I think it is possible to add individual grow times for each crop, independent of the number of stages. Probably I can use ingame days as value. Just say, "potatoes need 10 days to grow, radish 3 days".

And we should add a rot state for all crops anyway, even for wheat and cotton, to make it consistent.

[MarkuBu]

This runs now for about 1.5 hours. I doubled the average grow time and the 5% chance to rot. Looks better for me. You don't need to maintain the fields continuously

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu looking good :)

[tobyplowy]

potatoes need 10 days to grow, radish 3 days

Thats Still abit randomized right so they Don't all grow at the same Time ;)

[MarkuBu]

Of course. Currently you have an average grow time per state in seconds. And each state has a random range based on that time.

I want to calculate this average grow time per state based on the seconds per day and the number of states. With this method the number of states or the length of a day doesn't matter and we have reasonable grow times because I really think, everything grows much too fast right now

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu ok good also how do you want me to give you the textures do I upload them in this issue and you add them to your branch (I prefer to do it this way)

Or do you have another idea

[MarkuBu]

You can upload wherever you want

But I want to reduce the randomization a bit. The difference between the states can be to high. I have cotton in state 8 and in state 3. It's a little too much

[tobyplowy]

But I want to reduce the randomization a bit. The difference between the states can be to high. I have cotton in state 8 and in state 3. It's a little too much

Jeh that is pretty extreme So jeh go ahead

[MarkuBu]

I've updated the first comment. I removed things that are not part of the farming mod. Additional recipes should be added with a new mod.

The farming mod should only contain stuff that is related to farming which is soil, tools, crops and the growing of the crops.

I will add some suggestions for new crops to the first post

[tobyplowy]

I've updated the first comment

i cant find it

[MarkuBu]

I mean the first comment in this issue

https://github.com/D00Med/farlands/issues/140#issue-264209856

[MarkuBu]

The code from the farming mod confuses me. I have to understand it first, before I can make major changes

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu you can rewerite the whole farming mod if youd like (make sure it's compatible with V1 world saves :)

[MarkuBu]

Pushed some minor farming changes to 1.1

Grow time is longer. Crops stay much longer in mature state Grow speed is less (but still) random

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu can you inprove the watering can (so it can be used as a farming tool?)

I whant it to have a durability bar and When The durability bar is empty you need to refill it with water Also it's not possible to water crops for some reason it's only possible to make saplings grow

D00Med made the original watering can

[tobyplowy]

Pushed some minor farming changes to 1.1

Grow time is longer. Crops stay much longer in mature state Grow speed is less (but still) random

Amazing thanks again for all your work and time it really means alot to me :)

[MarkuBu]

Try it first before you cheer ;-)

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu I'm testing now, but you still deserve a thank you for your time and work you know :)

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu I found that Wheat and Cotton grow verry slow can it be faster

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu I'm also inproveing the crop grow stages

So it's easier to see when they are ready to be harvested

[MarkuBu]

It grows slow because I just increased the stage time for now, but it still has 7/8 stages instead of 4. It's a bit more work to make it more flexible.

But nevertheless, I think longer times for food production would be better. I don't know what I should do with all the eggs and chicken ;-)

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu rotten cotton (cotton dead)

also thats alot of eggs i wish this was real i love eggs :/

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu can you add temp textures for rotten wheat and the new crops you sugested (just add a solid color 16X16 image as texture) so i can work on it later and its alredy in the game

[tobyplowy]

rotten_wheat

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu I just tested the crop grow times are perfect :) Wheat and Cotton need to go a bit faster tho also rotting needs to go a little bit faster

Nice job

[MarkuBu]

Ok, I think I will rewrite the farming mod. Using farming redo as base is a mess. Probably I will use default farming mod as base and go from there.

And I will split farming and food recipes into two mods

[MarkuBu]

Some suggestions.

• You can't find any crop in the wild. To get some progress to the game most crops only can be found in backyards, in chests, can be purchased by traders or dropped e.g. by mobs.
• Crops can grow on dry soil, on wet soil and on fertile soil (compost). On dry soil they grow slow and rot fast, but you can grow something even if you have no water or bucket. On fertile soil they grow fast and don't rot.
• In cold biomes crops grow slower
• Crops should support grow speedup with bone meal or similar
• Grow speed should depend on light level, soil, temperature...
• Use 'on_flood' to drop crops when flooded with water

I don't like the idea of to much maintenance like watering the soil with a watering can.

[tobyplowy]

Ok, I think I will rewrite the farming mod.

I'm excited :)

You can't find any crop in the wild.

Eeeemmmm yes you can at least in v1 not sure about 1.1 tho :/

Crops can grow on dry soil, on wet soil and on fertile soil (compost). On dry soil they grow slow and rot fast, but you can grow something even if you have no water or bucket. On fertile soil they grow fast and don't rot.

I agree with the above but if the soil is not wet it should grow really slow (Like painfully slow becouse it's not hard to get water)

Can you change dry soil into wet soil if it's raining without having alot of performance issues?

In cold biomes crops grow slower

Oh man I really like that idea

Crops should support grow speedup with bone meal or similar

Yes :) Can the watering can be used? (Idea below)

Grow speed should depend on light level, soil, temperature...

If this doesn't make too much lag than yes also how can minetest know what temperature it is? Maybe we can add air blocks for the different biomes (this will also allow us to change the sky color) 2 good things in one :)

Use 'on_flood' to drop crops when flooded with water

Yes we should have added that from the beginning :/

I don't like the idea of to much maintenance

Well the fun of farming is that it takes some time but we can settle an agreement I whant more work for farming you whant less but im very cooperative unlike other people (minetest dev team)

like watering the soil with a watering can.

Maybe it can be used instead of bone meal it has the same functions but you only need to refill it every now and then good idea yes or no?

[MarkuBu]

Eeeemmmm yes you can at least in v1 not sure about 1.1 tho :/

I know that it is currently possible, but for future versions this should be removed. It won't break old worlds. You just wont find crops in newly explored areas.

A game needs some progress. Walking through a grassland and find 9 of 10 crops is not very satisfying. You need some progress. For example: find wheat seed, grow wheat, get bread. Find a house with some potatoes in a chest, grow more potatoes, make baked potatoes. Find some coins in a dungeon, go to a trader an buy some whatever seeds. Grow whatever to make a delicious meal with potatoes, meat and whatever ....

Can the watering can be used? (Idea below)

Well, if you have to use some kind of fertilizer (e.g. compost tea) instead of pure water because pure water would make it to easy to grow something fast.

I whant more work for farming you whant less

If farming takes too much time you don't have time for other things like building or traveling. Especially traveling becomes nearly impossible because you have to return home every time you need to maintain your farm.

The watering can in combination with some kind of fertilizer can be used to grow crops faster (like with bone meal), but not for watering the soil to keep it wet.

[tobyplowy]

whatever

I really like whatever it's my favorite food XD But all joking aside I agree

The watering can in combination with some kind of fertilizer can be used to grow crops faster (like with bone meal), but not for watering the soil to keep it wet.

Yes ok

Is it possible to make the crops grow at random if you use fertilizer So you need to fertilise it more Than ones to get a full crop?

[MarkuBu]

Is it possible to make the crops grow at random if you use fertilizer So you need to fertilise it more Than ones to get a full crop?

I think about to add an API to make it easy to add fertilizer with different chances

But something else: I don't like the fact that it is enough to have a water source or floating water within 3 nodes, even if it is 3 nodes below or flying 3 nodes above the crops. Water should be at the same level as the soil

[tobyplowy]

I think about to add an API to make it easy to add fertilizer with different chances

Nice :)

But something else: I don't like the fact that it is enough to have a water source or floating water within 3 nodes, even if it is 3 nodes below or flying 3 nodes above the crops. Water should be at the same level as the soil

I never even knew that was possible but yes I agree Also can you increase the distance of water effect to 4 blocks far instead of 3?

[MarkuBu]

Also can you increase the distance of water effect to 4 blocks far instead of 3?

Already done

Now the water source has to be at the same level as the soil and you can water a 9x9 field instead of 7x7

But don't be confused. This is not farlands. Currently I use default MTG. I just modify the default farming mod

[tobyplowy]

@MarkuBu it will be added to farlands later right?

Also do you think pigs shuld be added to farlands?

[MarkuBu]

We should open a new issue for animals

[D00Med]

@MarkuBu Something good about anything like farming being more complicated, is that it extends the depth of the game. If you look at the other aspects of Farlands, complexity is sort of a running theme. So here are my thoughts: Farming could be complex, but it should tie in with the village building aspect. When I add npc vocations, we can have farmers that grow crops in nearby areas, without it being so complicated. But if the player wants to grow their own, then it is harder. So it's easy only if players have put work into their village/s. I like the idea that crops shouldn't grow in the wild, but maybe instead it would be better for them to just be rare? And farmer npc's could sell seeds (maybe just make the traders do this for now). And if crops can grow in dry soil, I suggest that they should grow slowly, but spoil quickly.

[tobyplowy]

@D00Med i agree :)

[MarkuBu]

Well, I forgot something important. Nothing grows if no player is near the plants. So you can walk around as long as you want.

But if you are building near your farm plants are growing.

And it is a difference between complexity and annoyance. And it is annoying if you have to interrupt whatever you do every other minute to maintain your farm.

[MarkuBu]

just a few ideas for more complexity. Wheat If you harvest you only get wheat, but no seeds. You need a scyth to harvest wheat. To get seeds you need a flail and you get straw and seeds. If you do it by hand you get less seeds. Wheat is attacked by crows. You need to build a scarecrow to protect your fields. To build a scarecrow you need to find a pumpkin and maybe some leather or cotton fabric.

Cotton Cotton needs a lot of water. Instead of growing just on wet farming soil each plant needs water nearby.

To prevent pest some kind of mixed culture can be used. For example Carrots can be infested by white flies, but onions as neighbors can help.

Just adding repetitive tasks don't add complexity, they are just annoying. You need to get some progress to farming.

Next step could be some kind of harvester and planter or, if it is more important for you, villager who work at a farm. But this is getting more complex

[D00Med]

@MarkuBu Those are good ideas. Crows would be cool, @tobyplowy could you make a model for those? Would it be good to have pipelines for water? If I added that, it would be a good use for machines.

[tobyplowy]

could you make a model for those?

Yes I can but maybe we can use the bird model that we already have?

[tobyplowy]

Would it be good to have pipelines for water? If I added that, it would be a good use for machines.

Yes if sprinklers get added