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DoESLiverpool / covid19

A location for our PPE (face visor, and other?) help during the COVID-19 pandemic
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List the consumables we actually need people to source #21

Open ajlennon opened 4 years ago

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

This issue is just for what we actually need to source. For discussions on what we may need to source please go to #7, #15

Items we have sufficient stocks of (enough for >20000 visors) ~are crossed out like this~

Q. Where are the best places to get this stuff?

Eye protectors / Visors

3D printing

Laser Cutting

Foam Visors

Useful equipment includes;

Cleaning Materials

Packing Materials

afroleft commented 4 years ago

To confirm, does:

PLA = Polylactic acid PETG = Polyethylene terephthalate

amcewen commented 4 years ago

@afroleft yes. PLA is the most common 3D printing plastic, so we've a bunch of reels of it in the space already. PETG is less common but also quite widely used. We have printed it in the past on the Ultimakers but don't have any in right now. I have one reel of it, which is 1.75mm diameter and so no good for the Ultimaker 3D printers we have (they use 2.85mm diameter filament). @ajlennon and @MatthewCroughan have some Creality printers (which usually also live in DoES, right now they've got them at home due to the lockdown, but they're available) which take the 1.75mm filament, and I think @MatthewCroughan is seeing how they fare with the PETG.

afroleft commented 4 years ago

Are you able to share the specific thickness and dimensions you’re looking out for?

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Very good point @amcewen - I'd meant to highlight that and it slipped my mind

@afroleft background is there are two standard sizes for filament for 3D printers. The difference is the diameter of the filament. Ultimaker printers (of which DoES has two) and no doubt others take a 2.85mm diameter filament. Creality printers (of which I have two and @MatthewCroughan has one) take a 1.755mm diameter filament. So those two filament sizes are what we need. And how much we need of each type depends on the kinds of printers used, which is bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question unfortunately.

Recapping:

There are two different diameters of filament

I'll update the description at the top

[AMc edit: the Ultimakers are picky about their filament diameter. Lots of "3mm filament" is actually 2.85mm, but some isn't]

afroleft commented 4 years ago

OK, update on the sourcing side of things:

  1. Setup a Simple CRM over in a public Trello board to keep track of prospects https://trello.com/b/Pvix5mtF
  2. @duncn is going to jump in and help us out here
  3. Linked Astrazeneca with @ajlennon who have a significant amount of the material we need. they have questions so setting up a call
  4. Instead of explain what we are doing again and again, I pulled together a quick post with what's happening big picture (link). @amcewen @ajlennon have used your images—let me know if that is not ok.
  5. Setup a contact form for anyone who can help supply us with materials (link)
ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Thanks so much @afroleft - for the avoidance of doubt during this time you're welcome to make use of anything relating to me and I'll trust your judgement!

Will share your post and contribution link. Great work!

afroleft commented 4 years ago

|>Edit: Alex - this is quite expensive. See my link at bottom of this comment

30% off PETG here https://www.filamentive.com/

With this code: PPE30

Also: https://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archive/202003/u-m-asks-community-donate-gear-protect-health-care-workers#faceshield

Specifically:

Order of preference for material:

Most preferred: PETG Second choice: PLA Third choice: ABA The ancillary 3D-printed piece at the bottom of the shield is unnecessary.

Edit: Alex this looks a great price. @amcewen ? @JackiePease ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BQ-PET-G-Pure-White-1kg/dp/B07VC45RJQ/ref=sr_1_27?dchild=1&keywords=petg+filament&qid=1585518590&sr=8-27

Jackie: that does look like a good price 3dgbire.com selling Fillamentum - admittedly a good make - at £20 for 750g

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Fantastic - just got off a call with @amcewen and @JackiePease and their advice was same, i.e. preference is for PETG

amcewen commented 4 years ago

We've been prototyping with 1mm and 1.5mm polypropylene. I've only looked at Kitronik's supplies and they only have 0.5mm and 0.8mm. There'll be other sources, but I think the 0.8mm would be okay (it might be nice to get a sheet of 0.5mm from somewhere to try out, as that'd make them cheaper).

I was checking Kitronik to get a rough idea of pricing - we should get ~40 frames from one sheet, which would make them ~11p each.

JackiePease commented 4 years ago

Placeholder for other items we need (still need to discuss with potential users):

afroleft commented 4 years ago

Packaging: individual sealable plastic bags, size dependent on state of assembly required and visor type, cardboard box to contain multiple visors

@JackiePease just checking to clarify if this is a need or a want, can you confirm?

London hospitals are taking PPE off of construction workers and local schools because they are running out or have none in stock.

Also, we should remember hospitals have facilities to sterilise themselves (Link), would be a shame to add to our growing list of headwinds if they are only going to sterilise on collection.

Let me know if I can do anything to help us get to a conclusion here.

JackiePease commented 4 years ago

I have seen bags recommended, maybe just to keep stuff clean. Also allows stuff to be labelled with date and maker.

Hoping that our local hospitals will be able to clarify what they need (@amcewen speaking to someone soon)- obvs more secure for them to sterilise if they need too - I would have thought that would depend on the application.

My view is that we would need some sort of box for delivery, esp. if stuff needs to be left for a few days before use, but maybe there are other solutions.

From: Tom Darlow notifications@github.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 12:15:54 PM To: DoESLiverpool/covid19 covid19@noreply.github.com Cc: Jackie Pease jackiepease@hotmail.com; Mention mention@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [DoESLiverpool/covid19] List the consumables we actually need people to source (#21)

Packaging: individual sealable plastic bags, size dependent on state of assembly required and visor type, cardboard box to contain multiple visors

@JackiePeasehttps://github.com/JackiePease just checking to clarify if this is a need or a want, can you confirm?

London hospitals are taking PPE off of construction workers and local schools because they are running out or have none in stock.

Also, we should remember hospitals have facilities to sterilise themselves (Linkhttps://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/issues/9#issuecomment-605315729), would be a shame to add to our growing list of headwinds if they are only going to sterilise on collection.

Let me know if I can do anything to help us get to a conclusion here.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/issues/21#issuecomment-605938937, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADBVRUDZI7SU6SZAYOMFRDLRKB5OVANCNFSM4LVYHSOQ.

amcewen commented 4 years ago

@DoESsean Would you be able to find some links to the PETG and PLA filament, and sheets of polyprop mentioned in the top of this issue? Then we can share them with whoever (a couple of suppliers of each, ideally, as we don't know what stocks will be like with everyone scrambling to make PPE) needs to buy stuff for us

AndyShilladay commented 4 years ago

Hi all - Spoke to David at Amari Plastics in Manchester. Polyprop sheet available including delivery. Please contact him on 0161 785 3560

[Edit: Alex - I put a call in to them - waiting on their response]

AndyShilladay commented 4 years ago

Picked up directly with David Regan who is Manchester City GA Director of Public Health. He was on a video meeting however we are due to talk after 5pm so more news later

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Thanks @AndyShilladay can somebody take this on or I'll phone David. Thanks!

amcewen commented 4 years ago

I've ordered 17 sheets of 1100x650x0.8mm polypropylene (in a few colours) from Kitronik which will be here on Thursday. MCQN Ltd (my company) has paid for them so far, and can probably donate it. Figured we should at least get some materials in flow to us.

drakard commented 4 years ago

For what it's worth, I had put this list together for the Fab Lab. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OZGEPXvj_5BbuuHf-y2ql296NIsnBEVW_7pvnAMdNVQ/edit#gid=0 Hope it's of some help.

Crestar commented 4 years ago

Hi

We can help with the clear PETG requirements if you still require this?

Thanks

Rajiv

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Thanks! We absolutely do @Crestar - can you email us at covid@doesliverpool.com ?

Crestar commented 4 years ago

Hi Alex

I have tried that email address but the email keeps bouncing back? Would you be able to drop me a email or call?

info@crestarltd.com 0203 667 7067

Thanks

Rajiv

afroleft commented 4 years ago

hey @DuncanNisbet — @amcewen mentioned we're getting low on this:

Elastic band - so far we've used 2mm elastic bungee cord and it seems to work okay, 3mm would also be fine, probably about 30cm per shield. (That link has a warning that the supplier is away at the moment, but it's to show what we're after, and it's who we bought the current stuff off when we were making 3D printed prosthetics :-)

Can we try and hunt down some suppliers of this?

We might want to create a new tag in the trello for it (link)

DuncN commented 4 years ago

This is the same message as in github right?

I'll let the suppliers know

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020, 17:27 Tom Darlow, notifications@github.com wrote:

hey @DuncanNisbet — @amcewen https://github.com/amcewen mentioned we're getting low on this:

Elastic band - so far we've used 2mm elastic bungee cord and it seems to work okay, 3mm would also be fine, probably about 30cm per shield. (That link has a warning that the supplier is away at the moment, but it's to show what we're after, and it's who we bought the current stuff off when we were making 3D printed prosthetics :-)

Can we try and hunt down some suppliers of this?

We might want to create a new tag in the trello for it (link) https://trello.com/b/Pvix5mtF

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/issues/21#issuecomment-607353083, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAD2REBLOKXC4UDVBDPWEKLRKNTN5ANCNFSM4LVYHSOQ .

afroleft commented 4 years ago

If you can help us source some of this stuff, it looks high priority:

Elastic band - so far we've used 2mm elastic bungee cord and it seems to work okay, 3mm would also be fine, probably about 30cm per shield. (That link has a warning that the supplier is away at the moment, but it's to show what we're after, and it's who we bought the current stuff off when we were making 3D printed prosthetics :-)

Crestar commented 4 years ago

Hi Tom

Sorry, we can only help with the clear PETG sheets

Thanks

Kind Regards Rajiv Kumar

amcewen commented 4 years ago

The Kitronik order I placed t'other day has arrived.

darraghbr commented 4 years ago

Prusa are retooling and are creating PETG at a higher rate than normal.

https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/prusament/1243-prusament-petg-orange-for-ppe-1kg.html

DuncN commented 4 years ago

I've just spoken with Rajiv at Crestar (as I wasn't sure if the thread had been picked up or not)

They'll have ~500 clear sheets available next Wednesday 2050 x 1250 x 0.5mm (~500gsm)

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

I am on a call with 3DCrowd.uk and feedback is that filament in the UK may be starting to run dry.

DuncN commented 4 years ago

I was speaking with a chap from Europoint (plastics) & he was talking about the material used to make fizzy drinks bottles (0.3mm printable PET (clear polyprop)).

Is this an option? I thinking of contacting recycling centres tomorrow to find out who takes the recycled plastics.

Should I?

DuncN commented 4 years ago

BTW - he also mentioned that the PETG they're producing visors out of can be sterilised, yet the amounts he's producing makes him think they're disposing of the visors, rather than sterilising.

Is this true? (i'm thinking it is based on the PETG comment in the shopping list above)

If so, is there an education gap we could help with? advise people to sterlise their visors rather than bin them?

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

BTW - he also mentioned that the PETG they're producing visors out of can be sterilised, yet the amounts he's producing makes him think they're disposing of the visors, rather than sterilising.

fwiw my understanding is that visors are being provided as single use items to be used at own risk. Doctors may reuse them given the lack of PPE

amcewen commented 4 years ago

Express Signs have their suppliers last supply of 800 micron clear PVC, so we can get them to cut stuff for us if we want to use that.

JackiePease commented 4 years ago

Re. 2mm or 3mm elastic. Cathy emailed lyndon@newlace.com. They're not open but he recommended International Trimmings (0161 835 3726) who ; out to be a retail customer of theirs. I phoned - they didn't have much in stock but also sell on eBay. They said they had more there.

DuncN commented 4 years ago

I've just ordered

28x Polymaker polylight petg 1.75 11x Reflow rPETG 1.75 35x Polymaker polylight petg 2.85 10x FilaPrint PETG 2.85

2x 100m shock / bungee cord 2mm

Just waiting to hear back from Raj @ Crestar re datasheet on a polyprop alternative

DuncN commented 4 years ago

I've started a "stocklist" to try & keep a track of what stock we have: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YcgVcau4rTeso2slVdPU7eTHVu5uZfycwqHAOCHZafE/edit?usp=sharing

Currently, it's pretty much just the materials we've ordered - would be good to update each evening on remaining quantities if possible.

Will need to think about lead times on getting the materials replenished vs how long it takes to consume them...

Duncs

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

@DuncN have you a feeling for stock levels? Is it "no problem" or are suppliers running low? Thanks!

DuncN commented 4 years ago
ajlennon commented 4 years ago

Gotcha - it's the laser cutting sheets I'm most interested in if we can get a feel for that? (bands and visors)

DuncN commented 4 years ago

by laser cutting sheets you mean the polyprop?

apologies for being a pedant, but my domain knowledge is hanging on by its fingernails!

we're not using polyprop for the visors are we? I thought we were looking at alternatives?

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

(Same here!) Yes I think I mean the polyprop for bands although maybe not visors (?) Talking to @amcewen we may be able to source alternative suitable laser-cuttable materials

amcewen commented 4 years ago

Aye, it's @DuncN who's my alternative laser-cuttable material source lead :-D

DuncN commented 4 years ago

Just ordered a "test roll" of this stuff from KP films for visors: https://www.kpfilms.com/en/food_packaging/rigid_food_packaging_films/mono_rigid_films.php

DuncN commented 4 years ago

Just ordered a "test roll" of this stuff from KP films for visors: https://www.kpfilms.com/en/food_packaging/rigid_food_packaging_films/mono_rigid_films.php

  • @ 300mm x 100m x 0.5mm (254 microns)
  • test roll is free on proviso we order more - i've mentioned this material might not serve our purposes, but he's making the proposal to some other customers who are doing similar visors
  • their factories are maintaining production of this stuff as they are supplying food & pharma industries
  • we can slice the roll at 210mm intervals
  • or can cut if larger intervals if we want the visor to be used with the 300mm on the vertical
  • can be laser cut

Update from KP films - they're going to send out "a few dozen sample A4 sheets"

Currently negotiating their minimum order quantity - normally its 1 tonne, enough for ~44,000 A4 visors... Gmail - RE_ Supply Question - Face Masks.pdf

ajlennon commented 4 years ago

@DuncN there are some other companies that could help us.

Can somebody tell me the name(s) of the material(s) we are looking for for laser cut band and visor (from @amcewen's email it sounds as though we are going to use one material for both?)

DuncN commented 4 years ago

Any word from Karl on those acetates?

On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 at 12:11, Alex Lennon notifications@github.com wrote:

@DuncN https://github.com/DuncN there are some other companies that could help us.

Can somebody tell me the name(s) of the material(s) we are looking for for laser cut band and visor (from @amcewen https://github.com/amcewen's email it sounds as though we are going to use one material for both?)

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/DoESLiverpool/covid19/issues/21#issuecomment-609399439, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAD2REEEVERA2SQAJ2JPVITRLBRODANCNFSM4LVYHSOQ .

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AndyShilladay commented 4 years ago

Hi all - just spoke with Astra Signs in manchester. CNC cutting capability for poly prop - 2 machines - 2x3m size beds on each

AndyShilladay commented 4 years ago

Fastsigns in Salford Quays are also willing to support

tamhamilton commented 4 years ago

I was speaking with a chap from Europoint (plastics) & he was talking about the material used to make fizzy drinks bottles (0.3mm printable PET (clear polyprop)).

Is this an option? I thinking of contacting recycling centres tomorrow to find out who takes the recycled plastics.

Should I?

Fizzy drink bottles are PET. This stuff is fine for laser cutting (Numatic spec it for their design). It can be sterilised and is obviously food safe etc (same material as is recommended to the 3D printed parts).

What are you hoping to gain from finding where recycled plastic goes?

tamhamilton commented 4 years ago

How about laser cutting rubber straps from this stuff? https://www.hindleys.com/laser-rubber-sheets.html