[RFC] Suggested new warp effects for Warp Theory

[D-Cysteine]

Your GTNH Discord Username

D-Cysteine

Your Pack Version

2.1.1.3

Your Proposal

Here's some ideas that I came up with; please give feedback and/or suggest new ones!

In roughly suggested order of increasing warp:

• For a short period of time, flowers are spawned at the player's feet (if placeable). Maybe limit to grass blocks only; this shouldn't break anything in bases.
• Player receives slowness, weakness, mining fatigue.
• For a period of time, player randomly lays eggs.
• For a period of time, player either cannot sleep, or takes twice as long to fall asleep.
• Spawn a wisp near the player.
• Player instantly loses half their current health (rounded down so this cannot kill the player).
• Spawn a doppelgänger behind the player. Similar to the friendly creeper, the doppelgänger is a passive mob that follows the player. The doppelgänger looks just like the player and has the same max health, and any damage that it receives is also dealt to the player (maybe with a chat message each time this happens?).
• Spawn some hostile endermen a moderate distance away. Maybe also give the player an ongoing effect that causes nearby endermen to become hostile and/or randomly spawns more endermen.
• For a period of time, the player randomly gets pushed around.
• Water is converted to ice in an area around the player. Maybe also place some snow.
• Spawn a bunch of mushrooms in an area around the player (low chance of vishroom). Cows in range are converted to mooshrooms (need to figure out how this interacts with Thaumic Horizons infused cows).
• A voice whispers in your ear, "You look like you need this". Gives the player some litmus paper. This is a not-so-subtle hint that the player is about to reach (or maybe has reached) wither-level warp. Maybe give the player an effect that prevents receiving this warp effect again for a long time, to prevent getting free litmus paper?

I'm happy to work on implementing these myself.

For balancing, note that it looks like a random event is picked (out of those the player has enough warp for), so the more events that we add, the less likely any individual event is to be picked. See: https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/WarpTheory/blob/master/src/main/java/shukaro/warptheory/handlers/WarpHandler.java#L228-L238

There is also a closed issue with more ideas: https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/issues/4270

Your Goal

According to https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/issues/5643, we need new warp effects implemented so that we can rebalance warp.

Your Vision

Adding new warp effects will allow us to expand the range of warp effects, pushing back destructive effects farther and allowing Thaumcraft users to be less afraid of withers blowing up their base.

Final Checklist

• [X] I have searched this issue tracker and there is nothing similar already. Posting on a closed issue saying I like this feature please reconsider adding it will prompt us to investigate and reopen it once we confirm your report.
• [X] I believe there is nothing similar in the pack already, or the existing solution isn't good enough.
• [X] I understand this change request may not attract enough attention and thus not be implemented.
• [X] I understand this change request may be rejected due to other community members thinking it's inappropriate.
• [X] I believe this feature would make the pack better.

[boubou19]

That is actually a bunch of really cool additions, i personally like a lot the idea of having a doppelganger linked to your health. I also love the last one, as it's basically telling the player when it's time to care about warp, so even begineers in thaumcraft don't get trapped that easily with warp levels.

That might also let us spread way more the warp effects, and defacto push back the wither boss warp to higher levels without any issue.

[yukieiji]

It's closed now, but in the past there was some discussion about whether the following Warp effects should be added. #4270

[D-Cysteine]

Yeah, I think the doppelgänger is also my favorite of these. There's some fun trolling potential too on multiplayer.

Thanks for mentioning #4270! I think I read it a while ago (probably got the wisp idea from there actually), but didn't find it when I was creating this issue because I only searched open issues. I've added it to the first comment.

I do think that a lot of the ideas in #4270 may be quite tricky to implement, though. Swapping controls and checking if the player has removed an item of armor seem like they might be difficult to do, and affecting GT machines would require WarpTheory to depend on GT5.

[bombcar]

I like these and I also would suggest another warp effect - kill all nearby bats! Not all warps have to be bad ;).

We may also want to revisit the warp researches and if they still apply - the way I look at it for some warp is the penalty paid to get something earlier than tech would get it (so a warped thing at HV that tech can’t do until EV) for example.

Another might be shuffling just player inventory.

[D-Cysteine]

Similar to this, one of the scrapped ideas I thought of was spawning in bats, but with wither on them so that they die after a short time (as a twist / higher-warp version of the regular bat swarm). But I decided against it because it would probably be really loud to have them all die at the same time, and the effect is arguably less annoying than the regular bat swarm.

[Shibva]

I got a better idea

This sort of goes with 1.12.2 bat mechanics

but think of this, instead of bats, the bats are magical spell bats. they are projectiles and being hit by one will give you a effect/debuff

The bats will despawn after a given time, some may go after a minute while others may linger around for 4 minutes

[Shibva]

(Basically if the bat touches you it may have a chance of despawning on contact and give you a debuff

the amount of warp that you have will determine the debuff power, the duration, and if the bat that touches you will despawn (goes down in despawn chance when touching you as your warp increases) )

Example: if the minium for this effect is 40, then theres is a X chance that the bat will despawn when it touches you after it applies the debuff. but when your at 80, the chances are lower of it despawning and the effects it can give you can varry

But why stop at just thaumcraft effects, maybe some debuffs from other mods can be piled on to if (Ie, witchery effects that can be a pain) it all depends on the current pool of warp they are having

Im thinking this being done on an equation where the total warp value is pulled and then used to determine the effects that the bats can give you

on another note, because witchery is in this pack, the bats colors can be altered with a simple potion effect that can be applied onto them when they spawn and diffrent colors can potentaly represent different debuffs (Ie: Black will inflict withering; green will inflict poison, etc)

what about that?

[Shibva]

another event idea that can be exlcusive for this pack is when you have reached high warp levels that your machines (that require matemence) will have an event that will make them require matimence

[Prometheus0000]

About wither warp (discussed in discord), one way to give you some time to prepare is to have it first summon a 'ghost' version of the wither (with chat warning of impending doom or whatever), then summon the actual one a little later (10s?).

Other ideas: (I don't think I need to specify if they're temporary or not, do i?)

• Upside down screen
• Sideways screen
• Hide HUD
• Spawn different enemies, like a group of zombies outfitted with gear
• Spawn a companion cube from chisel
• Make it rain as a visual effect, but you can see that it's only around you (like 5 block radius)
• Drop fish instead of animals
• drop ocelots/wolves
• Change POV(?) like when slowed/picking up dolly, or the opposite
• Invert colors or similar
• Add a filter, like old-timey grain filter or black and white
• Start fires like holding firestone
• swap health and hunger values
• Change skin
• Invert direction controls
• Play some kind of sound, like enderman screech
• Other potion effects
• Super fast decay of blocks around you, only for a short time (creates a pit). Only chosen if you have enough vanilla materials (stuff it can affect) around you, since it would be useless otherwise

[Shibva]

some of those are cool but spawining fire around you as a warp event will get probematic real quick, becasue remember: Fire + machines = BOOM

Changing skins would be a nice one but how would that be pratical

Super fast decay would be a pain in creating holes in your base as it would take time to fill them up and make the player (like I would) be parranoid about this effect happening

[Prometheus0000]

Maybe fire isn't the greatest idea. Or maybe a fake fire instead?

🤷 I'm just throwing stuff out. Last time I suggested spawning hungry nodes, I didn't expect anyone to like that idea either.

If we used the whole 200 range the giant hole one would be near the top. Also, if you chisel stuff, it no longer affects it, so only the cobble gang is going to be affected, and they deserve it.

[Shibva]

idk anything about that, but you fail to realize one thing. I belive most if not everyone uses cobble as a filler to fill most of the deep craters that can form and then top it off with the aproiate blocks (if they care about looks) other than dirt cobble is a comonly used resoruce for things and might cause mass damage to things that might be used to hold things up behind the scenes

also fake fire might not be a bad idea.

And the Ghost wither reminds me of that one thing that happens with Chance Cubes of a wither spawning and then vanishing when its "generation cycle" is complete (except for those times where its a real wither that will spawn and engage)

[D-Cysteine]

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Hmm, I was thinking we could lay out some more concrete goals / structure for this discussion. Apologies; this is going to be a rather long comment.

So are we all agreed that the wither should remain as the highest warp effect? If so, I propose we figure out what warp level we want to place it at, maybe set the warp level for the other effects in Warp Theory as well, and take a look at the gaps. Then, we can figure out roughly how many new warp effects we want to add, as well as their rough severity, and then we can look at all of the suggestions on this issue and pick out the ones that we like the most to implement.

I think there's already a few different attempts to assign new warp levels to the existing effects in this issue: https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/issues/4270 so we could use those as a starting point.

---

For discussion of severity of warp effects, I was thinking that they fall into roughly four categories:

1. Mostly harmless - effects that might be annoying, but will pretty much never cause harm to the player or loss of progress (by this I mean losing items, or damage to the player's base), regardless of when they occur. Examples would include fake explosion, bat swarm, friendly creeper.
2. Potentially dangerous - effects that, on their own, are maybe minor, but could cause the player to die if they happen at a bad time. However, they will never cause loss of progress. Examples would include unnatural hunger, poison, anything that spawns hostile mobs.
3. Potential loss of progress - effects that could potentially lead to loss of items or base damage, but can be avoided / fixed if the player is paying attention, or with proper base construction. Examples would include lightning (build a roof), thaumarhia (causes taint if not cleaned up), deadly gaze (can kill animals or villagers; prevent this by building walls).
4. Unavoidable loss of progress - effects that are highly likely to lead to loss of items or base damage if they occur at a bad time, and cannot be avoided once they occur. The only way to avoid having these effects cause damage is to stay away from places where they can cause damage, which could mean having to stay out of your base entirely. Examples would include wind (due to breaking crops), wither.

I was thinking that we could place warp effects at warp levels according to which of these four categories they fall into, and we can see which categories have fewer warp effects and try to pick more warp effects to fill those in (except maybe the last category).

This ordering does lead to some potential weirdness in severity; like for example, a warp effect that just outright kills the player would be "less severe" than a warp effect that just places a redstone torch at the player's feet, because the former cannot cause loss of progress whereas the latter could lead to your LCR turning on and voiding all your input because the redstone control got messed up. But due to how expensive items and machines are in GTNH, I think that this ordering generally makes sense? There's definitely some room for discussion here though. Also, some things are just really annoying, and probably deserve to be placed higher because of that (random teleport, chest scramble).

Also, as SteamDoge pointed out, there's a few seemingly minor effects that could actually have huge consequences due to how GTNH works. Anything that creates fire could explode all of the player's GT machines, and anything that removes blocks could also cause this: like if the player just happened to use that block to contain the lava around their rock breaker, the lava could spill out and cause fires leading to an explosion. (If we do add effects like this, we should probably add a quest warning the player not to use such materials in their base.)

---

The last category, unavoidable loss of progress, is the one that I feel is most "unfun" right now. Since it's impractical to stay out of the base, the only ways to avoid these warp effects are to just avoid getting that much warp at all, or very careful planning and a far-away, sacrificial setup to quickly rush through all of the warp-inducing research and then eat a pure tear. I think that the main goal of this issue is to make this type of warp effect less unfun, by pushing these effects later in warp.

However, Prometheus's comment above about giving the player time to prepare brings up a good point. Another solution to these effects being unavoidable, would be to add in a delay time, giving the player time to get to a safe place out of the base. I think we could fairly easily do something like, when these effects trigger, we first send the player a chat message warning them that something bad is about to happen, and give them some time to get out of their base. Then we trigger the actual damaging warp event.

If we want to try this, I had some ideas:

• We should add a quest somewhere where it will be seen by players accumulating high warp amounts. This quest could explain the delay mechanic, as well as tell the player what the warning messages / signs are.
• The quest could also suggest (or give as rewards) getting a staff of traveling, and setting up a travel anchor in a warded jar / "panic room" somewhere safe. The staff of travel would allow the player to get to safety quickly regardless of where they are in the base. Players with extremely large bases would maybe need to build several panic rooms, which could be an interesting mechanic for base builders.
• With the staff of travel technique, I feel like around 8 seconds of warning could be a good amount - short enough to be scary, but long enough to get to safety. Also, we'll probably want to add in audio cues for all of these, to make sure that players notice them.

[D-Cysteine]

Discussion with SteamDoge gave me an idea for a different way to potentially suppress warp effects while in base: armor that gives negative warping. So as long as you are wearing it, it'll reduce your effective warp. This should work even on servers where players can be logged off, as opposed to things like the soul brazier (and warp tumor? Not sure why that one is broken actually) which don't work as intended because players can be offline.

We can have the armor take damage over time or something, and so wearing it would incur an ongoing cost to maintain it. Maybe have a version that uses EU instead, with a tiny battery, so that it would only work well in places where the player is able to set up a wireless charger to keep its charge up? Need to check if negative warping even works first though.

Some possible ideas, as suggested on the Discord:

• Different upgrade paths for the armor. It could be upgradeable to offer more warp reduction, or switch the ongoing cost to something else (repair materials to EU or Vis from a wand, for instance)
• Warp reduction could be an enchantment or other add-on effect that could be applied to any compatible armor. Might be tricky to implement though?
• This could be a bauble instead of armor
• Relevant code is here: https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/WarpTheory/blob/master/src/main/java/shukaro/warptheory/handlers/WarpHandler.java#L240-L257

The original idea behind the soul brazier could also be a good solution: basically a block that protects whatever is around it from warp. Though I'm not sure if it's feasible to implement something like this (e.g. the soul brazier being broken due to issues with implementing this).

[Shibva]

While armor is not a bad idea, I do think it would be pointless unless it used an armor modification system like applying it to armors via a Infusion like that of runic shielding or to use a mix-n-match system like with HBM nuclear tech's armor modification system where it's simply like bauble slots for armor (certain modifications can only be applied to certain slots and armor [ie: a necklace like modifier can only be added to a chestplate slot, boot stuff exclusive to only footwear, etc] that allows to easily add and remove modifiers that exist between other amors (if you, for example, have modifiers that give the suit the ability to be treated as a hazmat that you added on an old armor, you can take them out and move them into the new armor)

Personally, I wouldn't go down this but like the idea of a multiblock machine that can be made to work either in protecting terrain from warp effects that cause damage (preferred) or it will act like a pylon made of bath salts and "asorb" (counter) the energy caused by the warp event into the machine when the player is within the machines radius of opperation (as some one helped me put it, like a wireless charger but for warp and does the opposite of what its supposed todo)

Due to the nature of warp and flux, the multiblock's "inner workings" can degrade as it handles this into biproducts (flux essentia and any other that may Be apropite as a runnoff); as a result, this multiblock will need to have matemence very often But can still run with maintenance issues present while it can run, it's I'll-advised to not do full maintenance as for every maintenance issue present the machine can "leak" some of the "warp energy" the machine asorbs form the player that experiences a warp event in the form of form flux, creatures composed of flux, and in the worst case, taint the land.

The purpose of this device was to prevent terrain damage from warp events but may end up being a device that acts like a grounding rod for warp events to be redirected to the machine and asorb it. The lowest tier of this multi block can be low range and even have a more frequency to needing maintenance, but as you go up tiers, better and more resisent materials will be used and will lower the need of maintenance as a result and also may increase the things range

For the machine to work, power, essentia, and purifying water (water + bath salts) must be provided to "asorb" or cancel a warp effect. As the machine is tiered up, less and less things are used (example: 500mb of purifying water is used per asorbtion by the machine at its lowest tier (LV or MV) while at its max tier they it can go up to only uses 10mB of purifying liquid per operation)

Some components will be needed tiered appropriately; my goal for this idea is to be able to make this machine In late MV or Early HV at its lowest tier as a more effective way than using purifying liquid.

• Note: if the route of the machine goes towards being a "warp event suppression pylon" then this should be done for both the warp events in thaumcraft and custom warp events added by WarpTheory

[bombcar]

Here's a warp effect - "Power has gone out from you" and all items in inventory/equipped have EU drained to zero.

[bombcar]

I like the idea of some form of grounding - even if only for certain warp effects or in certain cases.

Here's the thing - many players on servers with anti-grief (claims, etc) really don't have much of a downside for a wither besides free nether stars (and maybe killing some golems, etc). By the time you have enough warp to be causing withers, you should be adequately prepared to fight one.

Except for the base exploding part - for those without base protection, it's hugely dangerous. For those players something that can identify a warp effect and "cancel/ground" it at some cost could be nice, but this may be a separate thing/feature request.

I do like the idea/concept of "teching" magic more (also speaking of warp effects, some of the research says it pisses off witches, so witches should appear ...)

[Shibva]

Their also should be a messAge informing the player that a warp even has been canceled if the machine does its job when within operating range

"you feel as if a dark/twisted force was suddenly pulled away from around your body"

[Shibva]

I do like the idea/concept of "teching" magic more

In thaumcraft; most see the interaction of magic and technology as a abomination

[yukieiji]

One of the problems with Warp is that we don't know the amount of distortion that can be obtained through research. as a result, I think that there are many cases where the amount of Warp that produces a "potential loss of progress" effect is reached before one knows it.

Is it possible to let the players know the approximate amount of Warp will get when they finish the research(Before complete the research)? This change should not require the implementation of items that prevent the Warp effect in the base, as we will be able to guess which stage of the Warp effect ours themselves are in, and use it to deduce whether the research will progress the stage or not.

[Prometheus0000]

Is it possible to let the players know the approximate amount of Warp will get when they finish the research?

You already get told this in a lore-way, from 1-5 except the ones we change to be higher. People just don't care or pay attention.

[Prometheus0000]

I do like the idea/concept of "teching" magic more

Personally I don't like this, but I don't like it in specific ways, like the EMT wand recharging thing that makes it seem like you just use tech to skip fundamental thaum stuff.

Or using UUM to skip making any of the magic metals.

[Shibva]

Personally I don't like this, but I don't like it in specific ways, like the EMT wand recharging thing that makes it seem like you just use tech to skip fundamental thaum stuff.

Well Magic and Tech have somewhat of a love-hate relationship from what I have observed in lore, though dispite this a connection has been made

The machine that I had described will need various forms of input, and the thing is theres one thing I thought of as well, this machine will be able todo it on not just one player, but can work wtih any player that has a warp event in its radius, though this will increase the consumption of resources but makes it so group research while working towards the pure tear or amulet can be easaly managed

[Prometheus0000]

I don't care about lore, what I care about is people ignoring the proper progression and just throwing EU or w/e at it so they can skip stuff. Also, rather than making a new thing, fixing the existing one seems better.

[Cata-bre]

So are we all agreed that the wither should remain as the highest warp effect? If so, I propose we figure out what warp level we want to place it at, maybe set the warp level for the other effects in Warp Theory as well, and take a look at the gaps. Then, we can figure out roughly how many new warp effects we want to add, as well as their rough severity, and then we can look at

I'd like to see the Wither at 200 Warp (per #5643) and warp effects scaled into your four categories. Gaps would be filled as needed.

1. Mostly harmless (0-50 warp)
2. Potentially dangerous (51-100 warp)
3. Potential loss of progress (101-150 warp)
4. Unavoidable loss of progress (151-200 warp)

Such scaling still forces you to deal with warp, but it allows for more exploration of Thaum + addons than is currently possible. Anyone in MV/HV/EV has to limit their warp until they can get the Pure Tear at IV. The game play experience of Thaum right now is balanced poorly w.r.t. warp; you have tons of consequences for researching at lower tech tiers, but once you hit IV all consequences vanish from crafting the pure tear.

Allowing players to research more while still dealing with effects makes the IV warp removal (Pure Tear) feel like less of a cliff.

This pack is the first time I've played with TC4, and I wasn't really sure what to research until I did some "meta" research on the Discord. It would be great if TC4 research felt less meta/allowed for a bit more exploration. I'm not advocating that players are able to research everything. But being able to research a bit more (by increasing Warp Theory range to 0-200) would make Thaum less needlessly punishing.

I agree with @Prometheus0000 that Thaum should be insulated from EU usage (outside of what already exists in EMT).

[Shibva]

Well it docent have to be, EU, I was just suggresting EU as a power source for the machine to run, it can be something else, I just used EU because I wasnet aware of any other energy that the machine could use

It could run on essentia but im not sure if there are means for GT machines todo this

[Prometheus0000]

Why would we need a GT machine to do thaum stuff? The thaum mods exist, you know?

Not to mention that the topic is new warp effects.

[Shibva]

dude, I was just suggesting an idea. this topic was stemming off a conversation that was had about an idea; the same could be said about the armor idea, and that was made by the same guy that made the thread

[Cata-bre]

Is it possible to tie the base Thaumcraft warp effects to Warp Theory such that you can't afk in a hole until the warp effects disappear? If several of those, such as the Eldritch Guardian, could be tied to Warp Theory they'd be add thematic warp effects.

Ideas for warp effects (some of these cribbed from previous comments):

• Spawn Taintacles
• Spawn a zombie in Thaumcraft Armor
• Spawn a weak Crimson Portal that only spits out a few enemies
• Spawn Wisps
• Vis drain on a wand in inventory
• Wither potion effect
• Send the player to the Witchery dream world next time they sleep
• An "Unnatural Thirst" effect where you have to eat a blood item (Tinker's has several) to reduce the effect timer (very similar to Unnatural Hunger)
• Spawn tainted mobs (tainted chicken, tainted cow, etc.) OR convert a nearby friendly mob to its tainted version.
• Is it possible to generate fake mobs only visible to one player?
• Create faces in blocks that only appear for a second or so at a time. You look at a wall, see a face in the wall, and it disappears.

[Savallator]

Can we first please come to a conclusion about what we want to achieve? Because some of the effects here will just make players avoid TC as much as possible, as already a significant portion of the playerbase does. Also, keep in mind you don't have the choice of what to research if you want to progress far in tc, because for unlocking Ichor you will absolutely need a significant portion of warp by researching items you otherwise don't even need. I mean, if that is the challenge here i can also think of some even more annoying warp effects: -> Change a random stone in the vincinity, that is not touching air, to a spawner of type Wither -> Scramble items in any nearby inventories around (funny with nukes!) -> drain nearby Battery buffers of power -> Randomly disconnect/connect nearby pipes and cables -> have the player emit redstone signal to its environment for a short time

But honestly, what do you want to achieve with warp? Because in it's current state, stuff like the Decay/Life effect is just destroying bases, the lightning is annoying every player on the Server and also very buggy, and some of you want even more annoying effects. Do you really want the playstyle to be "don't do any warp stuff until you are ready, then get a seperate base, do everything warp related and quickly reset warp"? Because that will actively drive people away from the pack.

Edit: I do like what Cata-bre said for example, that is annoying, but not destroying stuff

[D-Cysteine]

Can we first please come to a conclusion about what we want to achieve?

Agreed; I think that this is the most important question, which we need to answer first. I've been busy with other things lately, but once I have more time, I was planning on trying to direct the conversation here back to answering this question.

I think a good starting point for this is figuring out roughly what effects should happen at which warp levels, like in this comment or this comment.

[Cata-bre]

Can we first please come to a conclusion about what we want to achieve?

I want TC gameplay to be less all or nothing. @Savallator describes the problem with the current playstyle well:

Don't do any warp stuff until you are ready, then get a separate base, do everything warp related, and quickly reset warp

I want to achieve a better warp/gameplay curve for Thaumcraft + addons that will:

• Cause more players to play with Thaumcraft
• Allow for a better risk/reward ratio
• Still be punishing at high levels of warp

Currently the risk (warp effects) do not scale well with the rewards (multiple Dangerous/Taboo researches). Many players wait until IV/pure tear to completely circumvent this risk-reward curve. This means they aren't engaging with Thaumcraft or warp at all.

By increasing the Warp Theory range we can make the Thaumcraft risk/reward curve more engaging so players don't circumvent it. We also give players more options/choices/research paths. Want to heavily research Blood Magic, but not other pages on the Thaumonomicon? That's viable. If you want lots of Blood Magic research and other tabs on the Thaumonomicon? Well, you'll pay for that in warp effects. Completely unlocking multiple pages will still have consequences. I'll make a separate comment with a table detailing (what I think) is a better warp risk/reward curve.

[Cata-bre]

Here is a new (and quite rough) table based off of @Prometheus0000's table (from his comment in #5643) and @D-Cysteine's comment on four tiers of warp effects (from this thread).

Warp Effect	Warp Amount
Mostly harmless	0-50
Fake Explosion	10
Spawn Bats	15
Fake Creeper	20
Blindness	25
Rain	35
Blood	40 ​
Nausea	45 ​
Vis drain on all inventory items	50 ​
Unnatural Thirst	50 ​
Unnatural Hunger	50 ​
Potentially dangerous	51-100
2 minutes of Poison III	51
Jump Boost	55 ​
Friendly Creeper	60 ​
Livestock Rain	70 ​
Wind	80 ​
Spawn (or convert nearby vanilla mobs to) tainted mobs	90 ​
2 minutes of Wither III	90
Spawn Wisps	95
Potential loss of progress	101-150
Lightning	101 ​
Spawn Zombies in Fortress Armor	110 ​
Random Teleport	120 ​
Acceleration	130 ​
Decay	140 ​
Spawn Hostile Creeper	150 ​
Unavoidable loss of progress	151-200
Random Tree	155
Spawn Taintacles	165
Chest Scramble	175
Spawn Wither	200

I've slightly modified the values from Prometheus's table and added in some of my own ideas. I've italicized the effects I've added in and values I've modified. I'm all for increasing the poison effect to 2 minutes and making it Poison III. Same with Wither.

[Savallator]

Imho getting Blindness and Nausea even with low warp is very annoying and also boring, because it is both just "wait x seconds until you can continue". Also, please no rain. Don't punish the whole playerbase in SMP when just one player has warp. It rains way too often already. Edit: also i think stuff like decay should be removed. It is just not fun, and it does a lot of damage to the world (more than Withers). Also, it does a sort of "hidden" damage you don't notice immediately, but it annoys you for weeks. Random Teleport is bad as well in its current state, because it lasts way too long and is also just "wait until it wears off". Maybe just tp once or twice, and not for like 20s?

[Cata-bre]

I agree with you; annoying global effects penalize everyone else not playing Thaumcraft. I also like the idea of removing Nausea and Blindness and replacing them with more interesting effects.

What effects do you want to see?

Edit: I'm alright with the decay effect (and similar effects) as long as it is on the higher end of warp effects. Penalizing players for very high warp is permissible as long as they are warned. 140+ warp is reached intentionally; you don't get there unless 1) you're completely ignorant of TC (and didn't RTFM) or 2) don't care at all about warp effects.

[Savallator]

Maybe something only distorting vision a bit instead of nausea. Or giving the pumpkin overlay for a time (without wearing a pumpkin)?

[Savallator]

Decay could maybe reworked, as well as the swamp effect, to affect way less blocks and also only affect visible blocks (maybe even like the existing "death laser" effect, but for blocks?)

[Savallator]

Also, unnatural hunger is broken in combination with hunger overhaul since you can only eat zombie flesh so often...

Edit: I'm alright with the decay effect (and similar effects) as long as it is on the higher end of warp effects. Penalizing players for very high warp is permissible as long as they are warned. 140+ warp is reached intentionally; you don't get there unless 1) you're completely ignorant of TC (and didn't RTFM) or 2) don't care at all about warp effects.

The problem with decay is that it can fuck up your base so bad it will take A LOT of work to repair, and also fuck up blocks hidden in the wall. It is the most annoying effect imho (together with swamp). I would rather have dozens of withers than decay.

[Prometheus0000]

Also, unnatural hunger is broken in combination with hunger overhaul since you can only eat zombie flesh so often...

Doesn't it just take longer to eat? Unless you eat it when you aren't under the effect, or it stacked to >6, it shouldn't be a problem.

PS: Decay should affect more blocks, not less.

[Savallator]

it stacks until you can no longer eat... Cans don't reset /affect the counter, so the only thing i eat is the flesh...

[Savallator]

And: fundamentally, what are you trying to achieve with making warp effects even more annoying? Did you ever have decay fuck up your base? It is really bad already, especially since it affects mostly blocks behind walls. Making it even more annyoing will just make player play tc less, and that already is a problem.

[Prometheus0000]

Well, that's a drawback to using cans all the time. Time to remove cans. Or make them their own food that you can only eat so much of.

[Savallator]

yeah, much fun to still need 5 different foods lategame...

[Prometheus0000]

And: fundamentally, what are you trying to achieve with making warp effects even more annoying? Did you ever have decay fuck up your base? It is really bad already, especially since it affects mostly blocks behind walls. Making it even more annyoing will just make player play tc less, and that already is a problem.

Of course. But it doesn't affect chiseled blocks, so you can just ignore it 95% of the time, so it isn't really strong enough. If you care what happens to the blocks in the walls, that's your problem. You can just replace them all with chiseled ones.

This of course assumes it gets pushed back further, rather than staying where it is. Which is where I thought it was going to go?

yeah, much fun to still need 5 different foods lategame...

It's more that tin cans are so super duper lame. I'd rather have a difficult to craft food equivalent to the top tier stuff that fills you halfway or all the way that acts like tin cans in regards to SoL, so you need to spend more than non-effort making it. As it is you can just make anything into tin cans.

[Savallator]

It destroys the blocks behind the wall, and under the floor. That is my problem. That is why i suggested it only affecting blocks you are looking at, so only visible blocks. I still find patches of sand and gravel way deep down from the few times i had the effect back then before i disabled it.

[Prometheus0000]

I mean, I don't mind it only affecting 'visible' blocks, I just wish it affected chiseled and ztone ones as well. You'd probably need a big list, since there can still be non-TE important blocks.

About that, I think that rather than checking where the player is looking (I'm not even sure that's possible), using the calculation for the exchange foci would be better, where it gets blocks that are exposed to air in a certain area (in this case focused on the player, not where you used it).

But if you just changed it to what you said, it wouldn't do anything ever unless you have a garden area you walk through all the time, or build with cobblestone. It's supposed to be annoying.

[Savallator]

That is the point - if you make warp too annoying, people will just not play TC because of it, like it already happens for a major part of the playerbase. Also, mechanics like the ichor unlock and stupid research requirements force you to get a large amount of warp to progress to the good stuff. I would rather make warp effects more harmless, let the total warp level decay over time (or let the research give only temp warp), but make actually crafting/using tc stuff give more, and also remove warp removal items. that way thaumcraft moves away from "either don't use it so it does not ruin your base, or rush through it at IV in a seperate base and evade all the effects". Since i play on a private server, i have no problems with warp, i will just disable the effects that are destroying the fun. But on public servers you see most of the people staying away from thaum and missing out on a big amount of content just because some people find it fun to have an annoying mechanic punishing players for progressing.

[Shibva]

agreed if that is to be eft as is or made to work on chiseled blocks then it should be reserved for higher level warp effects like close to the wtiher new rate or something

[DisasterMoo]

Might add to this: I've recently crafted a 10k primordial aspects node matrix. Got about 30k normal warp and ate a pure tear. About 3hrs of warp effects, which didn't bother much but what was really annoying were the teleportation and thunder warp. It kept occurring for about 3 days (left afk) making the game impossible to play until it went off.

Some suggestions:

• Pure tear warping effects fixed (ie: 500 random effects regardless of warp amount)
• Teleporting warp only sums up to a fixed amount / reset each time it is added
• Pure tear doesn't cause teleportation warp.

[Prometheus0000]

You can just die after eating it and all the effects will stop.