Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!!

[Hexstream]

I'm the canary in the coal mine, and I'm almost dead.

MICHAŁ HERDA (PHOE) SCAMMED TWITTER INTO LOCKING MY ACCOUNT FOR CALLING OUT HIS DOXING.

---

[edit: Also see the urgent appeal, since I replaced the link at the start of the pitch to point here instead of there.]

Sorry for the mass ping, but this is extremely important and I should have done this way earlier, I just didn't think of GitHub as "social media"...

Please support the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser!!! The deadline is 10 december 2020!!

Here is the post on twitter and on LinkedIn. Please spread far and wide for the eternal glory of Common Lisp!! And please make a donation if you can afford it.

Also see my urgent appeal to LispWorks, Franz, the Common Lisp Foundation, Paul Graham, Planck EZ, and everyone else for additional context. Here is the post on twitter and on LinkedIn.

Please make sure to sponsor me from an account able to give out doublers, you should see a banner confirming this at the top (when logged in).

Also beware of prorating, which might significantly cut down your contribution if you are not careful. Any prorating will be announced on the checkout page, and you may need to sponsor at a higher tier to arrive at the amount that you intended to contribute.

I am inviting the following people (and everyone else interested) to help make the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser successful! I simply found them on the Common Lispers list and removed a few, such as (most of?) those that I am quite sure will not be interested.

@svetlyak40wt @guicho271828 @cbaggers @telent @mbattyani @duncan-bayne @artob @mdbergmann @eudoxia0 @kingcons @ahungry @rudolfochrist @ebrasca @genworks @pcostanza @cracauer @sabracrolleton @cxxxr @thodg @delaray @vindarel @orivej @pfdietz @vseloved @xrme @easye @dimitri @michaeljforster @froydnj @antifuchs @fukamachi @rongarret @Slids @lukego @macdavid313 @chaitanyagupta @slyrus @marijnh @froggey @ahefner @marcoheisig @bhyde @kaygun @lispnik @pkhuong @gwkkwg @borodust @fiddlerwoaroof @danlentz @sjl

[Hexstream]

@dlowe-net @thephoeron @orthecreedence @pmai @zkat @ralt @melisgl @jmercouris @mmontone @scymtym @jimka2001 @PuercoPop @luismbo @tpapp @pvlpenev @can3p @sellout @mpsota @gregcman @quasi @CodyReichert @csrhodes @fare @ruricolist @snmsts @drmeister @vsedach @gigamonkey @Serentty @nikodemus @durrendal @jsnell @alessiostalla @billstclair @nklein @malcolmstill @robert-strandh @nzt @sebity @jorgetavares @joaotavora @kennytilton @davazp @didierverna @veddox @Zulu-Inuoe @luksamuk @ryukinix @avodonosov

[Hexstream]

@mark-watson @nhabedi @wiseman @awolven @varjagg @TeMPOraL @inaimathi

[joaotavora]

But I thought I was the chief architect of the looming Common Lisp revolution! Or was that the dear leader of the looming Common Lisp revolution? 🤔

[ryukinix]

Good luck! God bless you and the Lisp community. We are in suffering.

[mdbergmann]

I've looked through most of the links (I hope). But it's completely unclear what should the raised money be used for. What are the short, mid, long term goals?

[joaotavora]

I've looked through most of the links (I hope).

Hopefully, you didn't click through all of them. I did, and I regret it.

[ahungry]

@Hexstream I don't consider github social media either, so I'm confused why I'm being tagged in something I have no association with - the issue/name tagging is meant for project development, not for what appears to amount to begging.

If I donated the minimum ($5/month) to you, why shouldn't I donate it to all Quicklisp contributors? At that point, given there are thousands of them, it'd likely cost me over $5000/month to support, which is not realistic.

Could you let me know where I can find the list of people you sponsor/donate to that have contributed to Quicklisp, or CL?

[Hexstream]

@ryukinix Thank you. We sure are! Things will get better. (And they will get better much faster if I get at least some minimal funding...)

@mdbergmann I am dedicating most of my life to Common Lisp Open Source. You may like to consult my roadmap for my most concrete and immediate goals. A core goal of the fundraiser is to enable me to concentrate almost all my energy on Common Lisp Open Source instead of having to divert energy elsewhere due to financial concerns.

@ahungry

I'm confused why I'm being tagged in something I have no association with

The association is that you are using Common Lisp, and are thus presumably potentially interested in helping Common Lisp succeed, and one of the most direct ways you can do that is by helping fund me with this fundraiser, since that would dramatically increase my productivity at very low cost, so that I can contribute even more faster due to giving me a better quality of life through improved finances. Also, GitHub will double your contribution, which is extra nice and cost-effective.

the issue/name tagging is meant for project development

A major reason why I am soliciting funding is to accelerate the development of my relevant Common Lisp Open Source projects.

what appears to amount to begging

I am working tirelessly to improve the state of Common Lisp infrastructure (notably including community resources), which will eventually lead us to a more dignified state where top Common Lisp Open Source contributors like me (and obviously others) no longer need to resort to anything even resembling begging to get funding. Also, I'm not sure if it counts as "begging" since I have already delivered tremendous value to Common Lisp Open Source. I think it's fair to expect at least a little payback at some point.

If I donated the minimum ($5/month) to you, why shouldn't I donate it to all Quicklisp contributors? At that point, given there are thousands of them, it'd likely cost me over $5000/month to support, which is not realistic.

I don't understand the argument. This is completely unrelated. If you decided to invest thousands of dollars in the Common Lisp community, then giving 5$/month to everyone is literally the least effective way to do good. That's not going to really move the needle for anyone.

Whereas if this fundraiser is successful, then that would vastly increase my productivity as a top Common Lisp Open Source contributor, thereby directly benefitting the entire Common Lisp community.

Could you let me know where I can find the list of people you sponsor/donate to that have contributed to Quicklisp, or CL?

Actually I have been sponsoring a few relevant Common Lisp people (and had to temporarily stop due to cashflow issues), although for some reason they almost inevitably end up backstabbing me in some way. If the fundraiser is completely successful then I can resume the remaining sponsorships immediately and add more, but this is incidental. This is not where my core value is. I am doing this fundraiser because I need funding to help me work on my projects faster. Asking who I am funding strikes me as a bit incoherent in this context.

---

I hope this helps clarify things for some of you.

[ralt]

Just to clarify for everyone in this thread, @Hexstream "contributions" have been analyzed here by Michael "phoe" Herda (@phoe): https://gist.github.com/phoe/ccba343687dc21e3a71d0dc6db68c96e (spoiler: it's not great)

I was really confused as for why I was tagged as well and had to do some research, where I found this link among various twitter and github threads.

[Hexstream]

@ralt Michał Herda (phoe)'s "analysis" of my work is malicious, superficial and fraudulent, as I have already denounced several times. Literally the only reason I have not completely debunked him in real-time is that I'm too busy with the fundraiser. I have consistently debunked him in real-time before that. When I revealed to him that I didn't have time to debunk him because of the fundraiser, he immediately jumped on the occasion to unleash his most batshit insane attacks. He is a fraud. I have promised to thoroughly debunk him in 2021.

[CENSORED]

See the full story.

Also, he has himself publicly revealed that (and this is a direct quote you can verify) he is "already under weekly care of a psychotherapist and less frequent, but consistent, care of a psychiatrist", although [CENSORED]. As linked from my tweet, the actual place he says that is here.

[ralt]

Regardless of phoe's neurological troubles (which I doubt, but that's another issue), I'd say that you should take care of the feuds you have with at least 2 fairly well-known people in the Lisp community (I saw another twitter thread where you were saying Xach was a psychopath?) before promoting yourself for a fundraiser from the Lisp community as a whole.

In other words, clean your door, and then come back once that's done.

[samuel-hunter]

I'm probably going to regret engaging in what looks like a days-long flamewar, but...

@ralt Michał Herda (phoe)'s "analysis" of my work is malicious, superficial and fraudulent, as I have already denounced several times.

I took a casual look at your Twitter account (which I suppose you do the majority of your debunking?) and found it's not entirely convincing:

---

Unfortunately as a student, I don't have the expendable income to give back to the community financially, but if I were, my judgement tells me to first go look at the libraries and development tools that supported me first.

[Hexstream]

@ralt

I said Zach Beane is a sociopath, and he has never denied or otherwise addressed this in 2+ years after I revealed it. I'm mostly over it at this point, and we actually have a pretty good working relationship these days.

I have already repeatedly unilaterally de-escalated the situation between me and Zach Beane, and I am strongly considering moving the "PSA about Zach Beane" (which has already been gradually moved to the very bottom of the page) off of HexstreamSoft if the fundraiser is successful or at any later time where the power dynamics would change enough that I can ethically do that. Now that I am starting to be successful, obviously I don't want to start punching down or anything like that.

[Hexstream]

@samuel-hunter phoe concentrates on the one metric on the page that is obviously patently incorrect, and publicly and persistently and insistently claims that this completely invalidates all the other obviously much more credible and accurate metrics on the page. This is proof positive that he is neurologically damaged.

Keep in mind that this guy represents himself as someone who has serious and relevant things to say about me and my work. He really does not. He's just trying to quickly scam everyone while he can (while he knows I'm too busy with the fundraiser to respond), and unfortunately he is experiencing some success in that endeavor. I will completely debunk him in 2021, as promised.

[alessiostalla]

@Hexstream if you want your efforts in raising funds and producing good value for the community to succeed, I think you should reevaluate how you address others, because regardless of what you think is right or wrong, your way of communicating will only alienate people. As much as you can contribute to the community all by yourself, you need collaboration to succeed, as you already know since you're asking for resources from others. So, regardless of what you think of other people's neurological or psychological problems, if you want to maintain a collaborative stance, you'll have to be reasonably kind to them (and no, screaming to go to a neurologist asap when you don't understand them is NOT being kind to them). The choice of behavior is yours, and you'll see others reacting accordingly. I can only say that your way of addressing others that disagree with you has actually discouraged me from donating anything, regardless of any technical merits that your contributions may have, that I have no interest now to find out as I put good collaboration over technical value.

Good luck with your efforts.

[Hexstream]

I have already extensively interacted with phoe, unlike you. He was already [CENSORED], and now he's just getting exponentially [CENSORED], and it's not going to get better unless there is a serious medical intervention. I never throw accusations lightly. He is the only one who has ever thrown anything that I did not immediately debunk, and this is entirely because I am busy with the fundraiser, and he knows this and deliberately takes advantage of this. I will completely debunk him in 2021 as promised.

As for my "interaction style", that is mostly due to me being consistently attacked and humiliated for helping build the Common Lisp community towards a more dignified state, as I explained. The more funding I get, the more I can just concentrate on building our infrastructure rather than defending myself against countless, constant unfair attacks.

[johnlorentzson]

Phoe would like to respond to this, but is unable to since you have blocked him.

[Hexstream]

@johnlorentzson Yes, this is correct and proper, and the justification for it has only kept increasing since then. Michał Herda (phoe) should concentrate all his efforts on [CENSORED]. I do not believe he has anything useful to contribute to this debate, or at least, any tiny value he might bring would be completely overshadowed by the mayhem caused by [CENSORED]. I will completely debunk him in 2021, as promised. It won't be pretty.

[johnlorentzson]

I can't read the Tweet you are linking because you have blocked me.

[Hexstream]

I don't remember that. What's your twitter handle?

The tweet says: "This was not on my 2020 bingo card: First, I have to declare phoe as being the single biggest threat to the Common Lisp community right now, although it is circumstantial. I'm forced to temporarily block him to concentrate on the fundraiser. I shall thoroughly debunk him in 2021."

You can also log out to see all tweets.

[parjanya]

It would be convenient to write something anyone actually uses first, then asking them for money to increase your productivity. For now, as I see it, more productivity on writing useless software isn’t particularly useful.

[Hexstream]

Actually, there has been vast and nearly constantly increasing interest in my work for several months, and my libraries are only a small part of my extensive contributions. I have much more exciting stuff in the works.

[gwkkwg]

FWIW, I'm unsubscribing from this conversation and do not wish to part of it.

[Hexstream]

Right, sorry for anyone not interested.

[genworks]

Ok I'm going to throw a little curveball into this discussion.

1. Unapologetic enthusiasm for CL, such as Jean-Philippe exhibits consistently, in principle is wanted and needed in our community.

2. The way JP is expressing said enthusiasm seems widely perceived as an ego-driven cocktail with a twist of paranoid delusion and a sometimes shocking lack of filtering and tact (JP would probably refer to this lack of filter & tact as "ethical" because he is being transparent with his agenda -- ok, hard to argue with that, but sometimes if you want results you have to learn how to do some sugar-coating and cultivate a certain amount of humility, otherwise you are constantly going to be sabotaging your own goals.

3. There are plenty of deserving projects and efforts trying to improve the CL infrastructure. Phoe has started a twitter thread listing some of them. We are hoping the CLF will be online soon with a check-the-box option for projects hosted at common-lisp.net (or at least mirrored at gitlab.common-lisp.net) to activate a fundraiser hosted on CL-based, CLF infrastructure. So it's a bit unclear how JP's fundraiser fits in to this landscape. In response to his direct request to the CLF (through me personally) for us to grant him funding, I've given JP a response from the perspective of the CLF that essentially this is not how our funding model works (at least at this time, we don't have funds sloshing around to be granted to arbitrary projects -- especially ones who have no presence at common-lisp.net -- although what we can do is help with hosting a fundraiser on the CL-based infrastructure we're trying to put together for that purpose if a project does have a presence at cl.net).

4. Now here's the curve ball: A couple years ago, the CLF hosted a fundraiser for the lead ASDF maintainer. Toward the end of that fundraiser, Jean-Philippe showed up with a $2,520 donation, allowing us to reach our matching goal. At the time, he requested to remain anonymous, but at this juncture, I think it's important to spread the word that, due to his sincere enthusiasm for our community and our ecosystem/infrastructure, he did make this sacrifice from his limited funds (I did get permission from him to disclose this now as well). So although he made this donation without expectation of any direct payback, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think it would be a gracious move if some of us would hold our nose and chip in a bit for his current effort, if for no other reason, strictly to express some gratitude for this possibly ill-advised and rash "leap" he took a couple years ago, and help ease some of the "buyer's remorse" he may be feeling from that. I'm going to pitch in $50.

5. In the bigger picture, Common Lisp will thrive better if those of us who are in a position to do so can increase efforts to look for opportunities to make money from CL from the wider market, rather than looking inward at each other in the technical CL community for financial support. Of course there's a bit of a catch-22 where it'll be easier to make money with CL when the CL infrastructure gets better, and that will happen better with a more coherent funding model for independent library and implementation developers. But let us not let perfection be the enemy of progress; I can confirm that it's possible to make money with CL today in the here and now. Just passing money back-and-forth among the technical community is not going to grow the whole pie as much as a concerted effort to bring in money from outside by implementing useful products and services in CL for users who don't even know they're using CL (or don't care).

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, I'm done.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 4:25 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

Right, sorry for anyone not interested.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/issues/1#issuecomment-740188972, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AACZBMGQHJXEK6ZNGJZ3L7DSTVB3VANCNFSM4UPUXQNQ .

-- My Best,

Dave Cooper, david.cooper@gen.works genworks.com, gendl.org +1 248-330-2979

[Hexstream]

@genworks

Thank you so much for speaking out, Dave! It's really RARE to see anyone take my side, and this is surely my biggest endorsement yet!

As a bonus, here is what I sent Dave shortly after making my big donation, I think it's pretty informative:

It should be plainly obvious by now that my commitment to the well-being of the Common Lisp community is ABSOLUTE (though not exclusive, see ponies 😂). I also have a strong commitment to "hilarity", and the Common Lisp community, through its various dysfunctions, unwittingly provides plenty of instances of and opportunities for such, in the form of grossly unfair glaring inconsistencies, many of which are to my direct and prolonged detriment and that I am in a position to further magnify through my unfailing benevolence.

Witness Zach Beane (admittedly a strong contributor), who gets all the praise in the world while being astoundingly deaf to the needs of the community and has in countless documented cases denied to dedicate even a SHRED of his vast influence towards the promotion and reinforcement of important community-building initiatives, such as the ASDF Appreciation Fundraiser. Meanwhile, my prolonged and mounting attempts to unify the Common Lisp community using my far more limited resources, of which the Common Lispers list is only the most recent among my string of such initiatives, have mostly been met with summary dismissals and even charges of dividing the community.

Having received an apparent offer of a high-paying part-time remote job from a top-tier tech company on April 1st (LOL), and the ELS beginning on that day, and the ASDF Appreciation Fundraiser having been extended to April 8, and April 1st being my birthday, and a senseless wave of slanderous nonsense being unfolding on the Common Lispers list reddit thread, I thought here was a cosmically hilarious opportunity to immediately dedicate my anticipated new resources to the Common Lisp community, hence my large donation to immediately complete the fundraiser doubler.

While the timing of the offer of course gave me pause, there were multiple signals that this was a genuine offer. I completed an important interview yesterday and am waiting for the results. After a few more steps, if all goes well, I should soon be able to dedicate even more resources to the communities I care about, as I will finally have lifted myself out my financial precarity after 12+ years of work. For years I have refused to even look for a job for fear of compromising my dedication to the open-source community, but the flexible format and high paying rate of this job would allow me to even further enhance my participation in the open-source community, in stark contrast to traditional employment agreements. I am really grateful that this offer has landed into my lap out of nowhere and that I didn't even need to look for it, and did not even have to negotiate the salary.

So now I believe you would have a much better idea of the context of my donation. I thank you fondly for your support!

edit: The company was Triplebyte, they fucking rock!

[genworks]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 7:06 PM Jean-Philippe Paradis < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@genworks https://github.com/genworks

Thank you so much for speaking out, Dave! It's really RARE to see anyone take my side, and this is surely my biggest endorsement yet!

For the record, I am not taking any "sides" here. I'm simply pointing out that you made this donation and expressing an opinion that it would be gracious if folks could separate that wheat from the chaff.

Note that your donation setup does not appear to allow one-time donations - unless I'm missing something, everything is "per month." I just signed up for $25 and plan to cancel after the second $25 has been charged.

Thank you again for your generous support of ASDF back in those heady times.

[Hexstream]

For the record, I am not taking any "sides" here.

Well, let's just say it's rare to see any Common Lisper publicly say something positive about me, period.

I'm simply pointing out that you made this donation and expressing an opinion that it would be gracious if folks could separate that wheat from the chaff.

Ok, well I hope this is not the chaff. (edit: Updated the link to be a bit more specific.)

Note that your donation setup does not appear to allow one-time donations - unless I'm missing something, everything is "per month."

GitHub Sponsors could certainly use some usability upgrades. I'm thinking of starting a ko-fi after the fundraiser if GitHub Sponsors has no immediate plans to improve usability for one-time donations.

I just signed up for $25 and plan to cancel after the second $25 has been charged.

Thank you! That will then effectively be a 75$ USD donation since GitHub will double the first one and not the second (since the doubler will have expired).

Thank you again for your generous support of ASDF back in those heady times.

Thank you, honestly that was pretty reckless and created a lot of drama in the family. :(

[delaray]

Hi Folks,

First of all for those who don't know me, I am President of LispNYC.org and a former ALU president and board member. I also served on the X3J13 Ansi Common Lisp committee for 3 years.

FWIW, I agree with David Cooper and thank you David for your wonderful introduction and summary of Jean-Philippe.

I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be grateful for his past generous contributions.

I will talk to Heow Goodman, Vice President of LispNYC, and Arthur Smyles, our Treasurer, and see if LispNYC can make a contribution as well.

I encourage you all to support Jean-Philippe in whatever capacity you are able to.

Best regards,

Pierre-Raymond de Lacaze rpl@lispnyc.org

[Confusing repetition of Dave's message (https://github.com/Hexstream/sponsors.hexstreamsoft.com/issues/1#issuecomment-740263942) removed by Hexstream to compensate against Outlook bug. See edit history to verify.]

[Hexstream]

OH MY GOD, thank you so much! This is... unimaginable!

It looks like we really can turn this thing around, after all!!

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

(Remember, the deadline is 10 december 2020!!)

[thephoeron]

I've had quite enough of this nonsense. Just so we're all clear, the sponsorships from myself and Black Brane have been cancelled, and I have purged all Hexstream libraries from our software stack.

Why? I told Hexstream to apologize, and instead he escalated.

I don't mind admitting that I was wrong about Hexstream, and Phoe was right. I stand by the decision to hear them out and let them prove themselves by their own merit, as we have come to the truth fast enough.

[Hexstream]

Alright, please tell everyone in excruciating details on what basis you want me to apologize to phoe, who has suddenly decided that transforming himself into a scam artist literally overnight was a great fucking decision. He can't just magically erase my 14 years of genuine hard work like that.

The stupidest thing about this is that phoe is, or was, a genuinely great Common Lisper, with tons of useful contributions. Now he has decided to almost completely overshadow all that for no reason. IN 2 WEEKS. It's pathetic and, frankly, so damn illogical that this again points at neurological damage. A psychologist and a psychiatrist won't cut it anymore. He needs a neurologist. NOW.

TRUTH IS COMPASSION, people.

[duncan-bayne]

I'm tempted to donate solely to pay for the entertainment that this thread is providing. I haven't seen cringe comedy this good since The Office wrapped up.

[Hexstream]

We're just getting started! :rofl: (Here's some inspiration.)

[lonjil]

I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be grateful for his past generous contributions.

I still have no idea what it is he is doing. He made that cool #'format table, and he has some libraries on QL. His roadmap has a few more libraries on them. They seem somewhat interesting. His sponsorship page on GitHub makes vague claims about spearheading a movement, citing his CV for credibility. But that CV doesn't seem to have any large contributions or anything like that, so idk what I'm missing. The only interesting things I saw are what I mentioned earlier in this comment.

[johnlorentzson]

For what I've seen around in the community I get the impression that most people either don't know who he is, or they dislike him.

[Hexstream]

@lonjil

His roadmap has a few more libraries on them. They seem somewhat interesting.

Pretty sure that's a vast understatement. At least some of the stuff I will release in 2021 will pop your socks right off, and it will only get better after that. (And definitions-systems 2.0 will be even more important than lispy-format 1.0, due to extremely wide applicability.)

My roadmap also represents only a subset of the cool things I'm planning to do. So yeah, stay tuned.

But that CV doesn't seem to have any large contributions or anything like that, so idk what I'm missing.

Look again, but yeah, it would be A LOT more impressive if I hadn't had to spend multiple man-years fighting all the censorship, slander and other bullshit.

For what I've seen around in the community I get the impression that most people either don't know who he is, or they dislike him.

That's the point of all the censorship, slander and other bullshit, yes. But those tactics are starting to lose their effectiveness a bit.

If I get proper funding in 2021 (and beyond), which it looks like I likely will, then my productivity will GREATLY increase. (Or simply if this fundraiser is somehow a complete success, but this looks like a bit of a long shot at this point (unless there are other big endorsements and donations), so people really need to wake up and act quickly... The deadline is 10 december 2020!)

[thephoeron]

"Truth is compassion"? Now that's funny.

Truth reduces to logical resolution. Compassion reduces to empathy. Resolution deconstructs and validates a thesis by inference. Empathy identifies and embodies all that it perceives. Inference establishes soundness and validity stepwise over unique truth values, to expose contradictions and refine knowledge. Embodiment entails no judgement, discrimination, deconstruction, or analysis.

This is a contradiction.

Therefore, Truth and Compassion are mutually exclusive conditions. You can have one or the other, but not both.

Would you like to choose? Or shall we vote on it?

[Hexstream]

Poetic, but inscrutable. And given your conclusion, certainly incorrect.

Truth is compassion. This is a fact. An axiom.

[benthepoet]

@samuel-hunter phoe concentrates on the one metric on the page that is obviously patently incorrect, and publicly and persistently and insistently claims that this completely invalidates all the other obviously much more credible and accurate metrics on the page.

You seem to trust the Alexa metrics except for the one that's inconvenient to your objective, and yet you have no accompanying data to prove that what Alexa is telling you is legitimate/illegitimate. Alexa only captures your traffic if you're using their certified metrics otherwise it's merely an estimate. Unless you have Google Analytics data to back up your claims, then any claim of popularity is certainly questionable.

[joaotavora]

Truth reduces to logical resolution. Compassion reduces to empathy. Resolution deconstructs and validates a thesis by inference. Empathy identifies and embodies all that it perceives. Inference establishes soundness and validity stepwise over unique truth values, to expose contradictions and refine knowledge. Embodiment entails no judgement, discrimination, deconstruction, or analysis. This is a contradiction.

Cool philosophy skills bro! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Hexstream]

@benthepoet

You seem to trust the Alexa metrics except for the one that's inconvenient to your objective

What's really convenient is that it is patently obvious that not 100% of the traffic to my top 200k site originates from Canada, and thus that metric is easily and trivially ignored.

you have no accompanying data to prove that what Alexa is telling you is legitimate/illegitimate

Actually, I do, mostly thanks to Cloudflare Analytics. And you have no accompanying data telling you that the Alexa metrics are illegitimate, except the laughable and easily ignored "100% Canada" one.

Alexa only captures your traffic if you're using their certified metrics otherwise it's merely an estimate.

It's a pretty good estimate at 1 million and up, which is why they start showing their graph in that range. Almost nobody uses certified metrics, simply because the estimates are already good enough.

Unless you have Google Analytics data to back up your claims, then any claim of popularity is certainly questionable

I'm sorry but if you want to claim that my top 200k site has no popularity whatsoever, the burden of proof is on you.

[thephoeron]

@Hexstream ahem.

• Re-stating a falsified assertion does not make it true.
• A fact is a very specific kind of proposition, one that has to be defeasible to begin with, and rigorously demonstrated to be true.
• An axiom is a stated assumption, held as true for the sake of an argument, but not necessarily true. They're more like conditional expressions, but more powerful because they enable free conjecture while maintaining rigor.
• I don't think you understand the meaning of poetic or inscrutable. It's trivial to further deconstruct and validate each couplet of my proof.
• Asserting a falsehood is just sad.

By the way, you just exposed yourself as delusional. For everyone's reference, Delusion is the pathological necessity to impose an irrational, fixated belief inconsistent with reality onto the world and others. You do it a lot, Hexstream, but a play-by-play always helps.

[Hexstream]

@thephoeron Unfortunately, it seems that you no longer have anything meaningful to contribute to this debate, which is surprising and disappointing. You are very much sounding like a slightly more erudite version of phoe right now, which might begin to explain why you might in any way agree with him.

It seems this debate has activated a catastrophic failure in your cognition, so I'm going to block you for now.

(edit, 11 december 2020: I should specify that I have EXTENSIVELY chatted with @thephoeron privately and I can easily recognize when he veers off into random meaningless philosophical gibberish, that's simply never useful.)

[borodust]

His nickname does contain Phoe too!

[Hexstream]

Hahahaha! Yes, I used to think that was unfortunate, but now...

But seriously, @thephoeron is generally very highly functioning, and he is at least overwhelmingly a decent person, as far as I am aware. I think the current situation is just too much for him to handle. Nobody's perfect.

[Serentty]

So you're registering a startup, and instead of accepting investments, you only want sponsorships? If this were some sort of charity it would be a different story, but I'm not going to donate to your business just because you're using Common Lisp.

[genworks]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 8:39 PM Pierre de Lacaze notifications@github.com wrote

...

FWIW, I agree with David Cooper and thank you David for your wonderful introduction and summary of Jean-Philippe.

I completely support what Jean-Philippe is doing and we should all be grateful for his past generous contributions.

Hi Pierre,

I respect your softhearted reply here, but since you say you agree with me, and then go on to make another statement which could be construed to reflect my position (or worse, the position of the CLF), I feel the need to set the record straight. While I am on a one-time basis "grateful for his past generous contributions," I do not "support what Jean-Philippe is doing," and the one past generous donation certainly does not make up for the years of abuse he has dished out.

Jean-Philippe appears to have within him a demon which craves attention, accolades, fame, fortune, etc. This is commonly called "ego," but is more accurately understood as "false ego." Let's admit it – we all have this demon, this false ego, to some extent (ok at least I do, speaking for myself). Of course I want everyone to love my work and shower me with praise and accolades and material benefits, and so do you probably. But most of us, to a greater or lesser extent, manage to keep this false ego in a bottle and beat it over the head with a broomstick if necessary in order to keep it in check. Some of us (so I'm told) even manage to connect with our real, actual ego, which has nothing to do with seeking out material fame & fortune. For whatever reason, Jean-Philippe is missing any sort of broomstick apparatus or connection with his real ego..

Hexstream's resultant performance and presence so far fall into the category of "attractive nuisance" in my opinion. It's "Attractive" in the sense that the unwavering enthusiasm for Common Lisp may appear to newcomers as a siren call. Then "nuisance" in the sense that we are dealing with an individual who will be quick to blame others for his troubles and attempt to smear them in the mud. It can be a scary situation to find oneself in, and has not only caused large and ongoing amounts of pain for several prominent individuals in the CL technical community, but one can also imagine newcomers to Common Lisp doing google searches regarding resources and community, falling prey to this attractive nuisance, then running screaming in the other direction not only from Hexstream but from Common Lisp entirely, due to false association. hel.

This situation needs to be contained. Continuing to ignore Hextream is not going to contain the situation, as phoe has correctly concluded, because the more we ignore him the more he fills the internet with conspiracy theories and misleading statements about Common Lisp and its community -- content which hurts every single one of us.

This is why Phoe's work is so important on the one hand – the Hexstream hyperbolic claims need to have copious rebuttals posted and linked as wide & far as possible so that newcomers do not become misled by the unchecked attractive nuisance. On the other hand I urge the community to understand that Jean-Philippe is a living entity and a fellow human being, and to look for every opportunity to throw love and empathy his way even though he has caused so much pain to others. I'm convinced this is the only way to deflate and ultimately dissolve this unfortunate situation. Part of how to show empathy can involve helping to make Jean-Philippe whole for the ill-advised donation he made a couple years ago. In retrospect, I wish I had tried harder to talk him out of making that donation, because it was pretty clear even then that it was a rash and unwise move on his part. So yes, now I'm trying to socialize the losses from my personal mistake at that time. It's simply an opportunistic moment because github is going to match donations. If anyone donates, I urge you to make it clear that the donation is not to be confused with condoning JP's abusive and malicious behavior nor compensating for any past library work which is neither used nor depended upon.

Phoe's efforts are not calculated to cause pain to Jean-Philippe, they are calculated to protect the general population from misinformation regarding Common Lisp and its community. Some pain to Jean-Philippe is likely an unavoidable side-effect of this work, and Phoe has made the open-eyed personal decision to bear the negative karma for this side-effect. As much as we need compassion for Jean-Philippe, we need even more for Phoe. He is going through a difficult time now, probably more than we can imagine, and more than he imagined at the outset of this magnanimous intervention.

Also, other than our official "no" response to Hexstream's appeal for emergency funding, none of my musings here are in any way meant to speak on behalf of the CLF, and I should have made that more clear initially. Moreover, in the hypothetical scenario that the CLF indeed were to have access to discretionary investment capital, my vote would still be a "no" at this juncture.

Jean-Philippe, if you're reading this, I am praying that you can retain your unalloyed devotion and enthusiasm for Common Lisp, while somehow finding a way to let go of your monstrous false ego which is alienating you from the very community which deep down I know you love (even the ones you smear). Also please let go of the toxic idea that this community owes you a living in any way shape or form or the even more toxic and disastrous idea that there is no way this community can thrive without your goodself spearheading it. You may or may not receive donations in the future in appreciation for contributions, but you cannot force such a turn of events to happen, and depending on such a thing happening for your main income source is a recipe for disappointment. Rather than looking inwards to the CL tech community, look outside for ways to generate funds (maybe by applying CL) --- and you will find them (I pray).

-- My Best,

Dave Cooper

[Hexstream]

@Serentty

There's a lot to unpack here...

So you're registering a startup

Well, I am planning to register in 2022, mostly as a way to save money, but it's a bit incidental. I didn't need to do that earlier because I had almost no cashflow anyway (around 1000$ CAD in revenue per year), so not much money to save on fees at that time, obviously. It would have been premature optimization.

and instead of accepting investments, you only want sponsorships

??? Sponsorships are a form of investment, aren't they? Since the primary focus of my life is Common Lisp Open Source, people can invest in me through sponsorships, which pretty much directly means that they are thus investing in Common Lisp and the Common Lisp community, given the nature of my work and especially my focus on community resources.

If this were some sort of charity it would be a different story

I mean, I had already been contributing to Common Lisp Open Source for nearly a decade without getting paid a single cent (I got my first sponsor in January 2020 and my first major sponsor in April 2020), and I had been building up experience with Common Lisp for 4 years and 5 months prior to that, also without getting paid a single cent (though I did intend to make money, just failed).

I do intend to eventually turn a profit, but for years my plan for eventual sustainability has been to throw free stuff at the world for free and hoping that people eventually throw cash at me for free. I think that seems like the optimal model for everyone involved.

but I'm not going to donate to your business just because you're using Common Lisp.

Ok, but around 100% of my use of Common Lisp is to contribute to Common Lisp Open Source, so this seems like a pretty nonsensical objection. I don't "just use" Common Lisp...

[Hexstream]

@genworks Your intervention is brutal and deeply misguided.

Since around 100% of the (actual or perceived) problems with "my ego" stem from the constant gross injustices that I am facing, a quick fix for that would be the Common Lisp community granting me very basic funding. In my current situation, 1000$/month (a relatively paltry amount compared to, say, an actual salary) would be basically infinite money, for fuck's sake.

past library work which is neither used nor depended upon.

Anyone can use them, at this time they are mostly or entirely used and depended upon by me as a springboard for producing much more important contributions. Isn't that enough? If I can make many high-quality small libraries (especially the case with my newer ones), then surely I can gradually scale that up to more important work, and that's easier and faster to do with a bit of funding than no funding. And let's not forget all the time and energy I spent in contributing to Common Lisp community resources and fighting off the endless fucking stupid unfair bullshit associated with doing such work in the community.

How about we grant me some basic funding for a few months and see if that helps the situation or not? I bet it will, tremendously. I've been contributing to Common Lisp Open Source for more than a decade already, completely unpaid until this year. We all know I'm in this for the long run. What's the risk in funding me a bit, exactly?

I guess I feel entitled to basic justice and equity. And efficiency.

Phoe's efforts are not calculated to cause pain to Jean-Philippe

They absolutely are, and anyone subscribing to his deranged notions will look pretty silly when I completely debunk him in 2021.