Training for non-lite brogue?

[RojjaCebolla]

If broguelite is partially designed to be a training mode for newer players, i'd suggest not removing quite so many things, and not needing to reduce item gen to match.

• if item generation is normal, then playing with full free id helps players develop an intuitive feel for how much risk they take when equipping unid'd items in brogue. the current settings will give an inaccurate feeling of sparseness and safety.
• some cursed weapons are worth it. i'll take a -1 broadsword over a starter dagger any day.
• using negation to fix a weapon that's good but cursed is an important play even in normal brogue. it's good to learn that interaction, and removing it makes the scroll/charm less interesting.
• as a side benefit, having item gen closer to CE-norm means that seeds will be less divergent, and seeded competitions more social and comparable.

[buster-blue]

I don't think the potential for brogueLite should be limited by the idea that it's training for brogueCE. Brogue already has easy mode for that. I think brogueLite can be something more than a stepping stone.

[HomebrewHomunculus]

Hi, when I stated that players could start with Brogue Lite and then graudate to CE if they want, that was just one of the potential ways to play it, not its major design goal. The original seed of the idea was just to make something for myself to play during breaks.

When I say "training", it's probably something more broad and general than what you're envisioning. I do not believe that every skill that Brogue CE uses should be taught in Lite. For example, the skill of weighing a cursed weapon and choosing it over a non-cursed weaker one is a very marginal skill, I believe, and not one worth trying to force in.

Negating cursed items is an interesting use case, and a good one to bring up. Since the lack of cursed items will make negation less valuable, then perhaps the answer lies in rebalancing negation in some other way.

The lack of seed compatibility is unfortunate. Dungeon layouts and monster layouts are exactly the same. But sadly, because of the way Brogue generates items, it's not possible to remove some of them without affecting the others. It would be nice to simply have the negative items disappear, but have everything else be in the same place as in CE - but I don't think there's anything we can do about that. Unless we commit to keeping 100% item parity with CE - but at a minimum we have to remove scroll of identify.

By the way, if you're interested in testing out the gameplay with just the auto-ID before the item removals, it's always possible to check out an older revision and build from source. Here are some potentially interesting revisions:

9e08805f711de758b142521969b94d4c920ba60b - before removal of negative scrolls (just identify was removed at this point)

37f85510a5c3039d7618e170ca403907cc2b6be4 - after removing of negative scrolls and hallucination, but before cursed equipment was removed