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JACoders / OpenJK

Community effort to maintain and improve Jedi Academy (SP & MP) + Jedi Outcast (SP only) released by Raven Software
GNU General Public License v2.0
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Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? #88

Closed dusty22 closed 11 years ago

dusty22 commented 11 years ago

So the electro-binoculars view is messed up in JKA SP, works fine for everything except lightsabers/melee which have no 1st person view, so it forces it to stay in 3rd person.

Any chance this could be fixed, and maybe the 1st person lightsaber view could be brought back from JK2?

I heard JK2 used it's own special transparent model for 1st person sabers, but JA could just use some variation of the cg_thirdpersonalpha cvar to some extent, which doesn't work but I think is supposed to make the playermodel look transparent...

Also, I would love to see the screenshotted save games return from JK2...

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

Unfortunately, the first person lightsaber will require some assets from JK2, which we're not allowed to distribute with this project. Sorry. I can fix the electrobinoculars though.

shinyquagsire23 commented 11 years ago

Couldn't you do something to prevent the lightsaber from rendering to create the same effect? Or, just have the saber model there.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

The problem is that the player model needs a model_fpls.skin in order to remove body parts which are in the way, and I can't remember for the life of me if JKA has those or not.

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From: shinyquagsire23mailto:notifications@github.com Sent: ‎4/‎12/‎2013 12:56 AM To: Razish/OpenJKmailto:OpenJK@noreply.github.com Cc: eezstreetmailto:eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Couldn't you do something to prevent the lightsaber from rendering to create the same effect? Or, just have the saber model there.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/Razish/OpenJK/issues/88#issuecomment-16275881

dusty22 commented 11 years ago

Already labeled this as "wontfix" huh?

2 problems:

  1. Why can't you use assets from JK2? Don't tell me OpenJK counts as a standalone game... I mean I can use assets from JK2 in a mod I make...
  2. Why would we even need to use assets from JK2 anyway?

(Wall of text approaching!) I could even make a ghetto 1st person saber view using cvars. I'm talking about pure coding here. I'm pretty sure all outcast did was just take the 3rd person camera, zoom it in appropriately, then code the game to treat that as the 1st person camera, which is also used for having the saber out with electro-binoculars/light amp goggles on and prolly melee.

The only thing JK2 did otherwise I'm pretty sure was have a partially invisible/transparent kyle model so in 1st-person view you wouldn't partially see the head or anything but the hands and arms. What I suggest is coding to make the whole playermodel partially transparent in 1st-person view like how the cvar cg_thirdpersonalpha (which doesn't actually work) is supposed to.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago
  1. illegal to redistribute ANY game assets with OpenJK/game source, outside of SDK/mods.
  2. not assets from JK2 specifically, ones from JKA. Can't derive them/make new ones in that one

Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:51:12 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Already labeled this as "wontfix" huh?

2 problems:

  1. Why can't you use assets from JK2? Don't tell me OpenJK counts as a standalone game... I mean I can use assets from JK2 in a mod I make...
  2. Why would we even need to use assets from JK2 anyway?

(Wall of text approaching!)

I could even make a ghetto 1st person saber view using cvars. I'm talking about pure coding here. I'm pretty sure all outcast did was just take the 3rd person camera, zoom it in appropriately, then code the game to treat that as the 1st person camera, which is also used for having the saber out with electro-binoculars/light amp goggles on and prolly melee.

The only thing JK2 did otherwise I'm pretty sure was have a partially invisible/transparent kyle model so in 1st-person view you wouldn't partially see the head or anything but the hands and arms. What I suggest is coding to make the whole playermodel partially transparent in 1st-person view like how the cvar cg_thirdpersonalpha (which doesn't actually work) is supposed to.

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dusty22 commented 11 years ago

Assets from JK2 or JA, why would any of them be needed? You could just do 1st person true-view style like MB2 or code models to be partially transparent in 1st-person mode right? You wouldn't have any need for any assets/modeling edits.

(You're probably ready to strangle me aren't you Eez?)

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

Re-read what I posted. "You'll need the model_fpls.skin for each player model" <- specifically the part where I mentioned this (I'm paraphrasing here)

Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:06:42 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Assets from JK2 or JA, why would any of them be needed? You could just do 1st person true-view style like MB2 or code models to be partially transparent in 1st-person mode right? (you're probably ready to strangle me by now right Eez?)

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mrwonko commented 11 years ago

Well... we can always create a separate "ordinary" Jedi Academy mod that adds the skin files, upload that e.g. on JKHub and then mention it in the readme, or even check for its existence ingame. We just can't distribute it together with OpenJK as GPL.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

I was thinking about doing this, yes.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Willi Schinmeyermailto:notifications@github.com Sent: ‎4/‎13/‎2013 3:46 AM To: Razish/OpenJKmailto:OpenJK@noreply.github.com Cc: eezstreetmailto:eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Well... we can always create a separate "ordinary" Jedi Academy mod that adds the skin files, upload that e.g. here and then mention it in the readme, or even check for its existence ingame. We just can't distribute it together with OpenJK as GPL.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/Razish/OpenJK/issues/88#issuecomment-16329180

shinyquagsire23 commented 11 years ago

I personally think that we need to do something similar to ioquake3 where we patch the game's files. Perhaps add something into cmake that combines all the files in one of the repository's folder into a pk3 so that we can still have diff visibility and we can fix some of those bugs without a separate mod.

ghost commented 11 years ago

I don't understand why you can't just make a new .skin file, or use TrueView, as neither would be original assets, and they're just text documents.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

They're derivatives of base assets, which is touchy. And trueview is shit.

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 10:33:22 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

I don't understand why you can't just make a new .skin file, or use TrueView, as neither would be original assets, and they're just text documents.

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ghost commented 11 years ago

Trueview is shit for guns, but for melee and saber it works alright. I also like the JA++ trueview implementation, works quite well.

As for being derivatives, I guess if you really want to avoid that then it just has to be a separate PK3 download, that really won't be an issue.

dusty22 commented 11 years ago

I mean, why do you need .skin files for 1st-person view anyway even if you're doing it JK2-style? You could still do it, you'd just be able to see part's of the player's model that shouldn't be seen in the view, am I correct? Or even with coding you still need some kind of .skin special for 1st person for it to work period?

I thought all the .skin files did was remove parts of the model Raven didn't want the player to see in the view...

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

Because JK2 did it with the skin files. It's all involved with the surfaces and surfing them off. And if you wanted to retain compatibility with custom mods, you'd want to use .skin files instead of hardcoding all the surfaces. It's just way way better to use .skin files for this sort of job, trust me.

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 11:19:31 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

I mean, why do you need .skin files for 1st-person view anyway even if you're doing it JK2-style? You could still do it, you'd just be able to see part's of the player's model that shouldn't be seen in the view, am I correct? Or even with coding you still need some kind of .skin special for 1st person for it to work period?

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dusty22 commented 11 years ago

I mean, is coding a universal-model transparency effect that can be used in 1st-person view difficult?

In my mod I thought about making a 1st-person saber view by zooming in the 3rd-person camera, and then I wanted to use "cg_thirdpersonalpha" because I read it makes the player's model partially transparent based on the value, but I couldn't get it to work...

If that could be made to work somehow, it'd be so much faster than making tons of .skin files, at least I would think....

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

Yes, because you can't "do" it universally. You'd have to force specific surfaces to get turned off, which are different for each model, and it'd be impossible to nail them for sure. (Doesn't help that modellers for whatever reason want to use off-the-wall names for surfaces ._. )

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 11:30:20 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

I mean, is coding a universal-model transparency effect that can be used in 1st-person view difficult?

In my mod I thought about making a 1st-person saber view by zooming in the 3rd-person camera, and then I wanted to use "cg_thirdpersonalpha" because I read it makes the player's model partially transparent based on the value, but I couldn't get it to work...

If that could be made to work somehow, it'd be so much faster than making tons of .skin files, at least I would think....

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

DT85 commented 11 years ago

Perhaps add support for first person lightsaber code-wise (maybe a toggle like "JK2 FP Lightsaber" menu option) and just stress somewhere in a readme you need to do this, this and this for the assets to get it to work.

dusty22 commented 11 years ago

@eezstreet Huh, well it seems weird Raven seemed to think they could make a cvar like that, unless they had some hacker powers we don't know... Any chance the electro-binoculars could still be fixed for JA? I mean, every weapon except sabers and maybe melee just uses the same view.

So what if you can't use your lightsaber with the 'nocs out?

@DT85 Perhaps. It would even work completely, the player's model just might block the view slightly at times.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

You could probably push the view forward a tad when not using the binoculars. But that's a crappy solution. I don't know what you're talking about with "cvar", there's no cvar that lets you use first person lightsabers as far as I know.

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:09:48 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

@eezstreet

Huh, well it seems weird Raven seemed to think they could make a cvar like that, unless they had some hacker powers we don't know... Any chance the electro-binoculars could still be fixed for JA? I mean, every weapon except sabers and maybe melee just uses the same view.

So what if you can't use your lightsaber with the 'nocs out?

@DT85

Perhaps. It would even work completely, the player's model just might block the view slightly at times.

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dusty22 commented 11 years ago

Every weapon uses the same view for electro-binoculars except sabers/melee, which use the cruddy broken view, why not just use that same view?

By cvar I was talking about cg_thirdpersonalpha.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

Lightsaber isn't rendered in first person. It renders a viewmodel, which doesn't exist for melee/sabers (for obvious reasons). You'd get an even more broken view.

Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 18:32:37 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Every weapon uses the same view for electro-binoculars except sabers/melee, which use the cruddy broken view, why not just use that same view?

By cvar I was talking about cg_thirdpersonalpha.

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dusty22 commented 11 years ago

^Ah, that makes more sense. I guess the only option would be true-view of some kind.

Still, for the electro-binoculars, it forces you to put away your weapon while the binoculars are out, and then re-equips it once you put them away. Could we have this for sabers too that they'd use that view, and just not allow the player to attack with the binoculars out? (makes no sense you'd be able to hold both the saber and binocs simultaneously anyway...)

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

So you mean like having WP_NONE and looking through binoculars? Yeah, seems easy enough.

Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 03:40:55 -0700 From: notifications@github.com To: OpenJK@noreply.github.com CC: eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

^Ah, that makes more sense. I guess the only option would be true-view of some kind.

Still, for the electro-binoculars, it forces you to put away your weapon while the binoculars are out, and then re-equips it once you put them away. Could we have this for sabers too that they'd use that view, and just not allow the player to attack with the binoculars out? (makes no sense you'd be able to hold both the saber and binocs simultaneously anyway...)

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dusty22 commented 11 years ago

Well, however every weapon besides sabers use the binoculars. The other weapons don't do anything ugly or hacky as far as I can tell.

eezstreet commented 11 years ago

While in saber mode, the player model still renders, this was done for FPLS but serves no point now.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: dusty22mailto:notifications@github.com Sent: ‎5/‎1/‎2013 4:58 PM To: Razish/OpenJKmailto:OpenJK@noreply.github.com Cc: eezstreetmailto:eezstreet@live.com Subject: Re: [OpenJK] Electrobinoculars and 1st-person lightsaber/melee for JA from JK2 SP? (#88)

Well, however every weapon besides sabers use the binoculars. The other weapons don't do anything ugly or hacky as far as I can tell.

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/Razish/OpenJK/issues/88#issuecomment-17306072

77Mynameislol77 commented 2 months ago

Sorry for the necro, but why not just allow the cvar but strip out the part where you can see your player model? I'd personally be fine with a floating sword, especially if it's a hidden cvar in the console.