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LMMS / lmms

Cross-platform music production software
https://lmms.io
GNU General Public License v2.0
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LMMS redesign concept #1911

Open budislav opened 9 years ago

budislav commented 9 years ago

(Click to enlarge) lmms_preview

Hi all, My previous work for Zynaddsubfx has same purpose to dock all windows in one (link is dead) http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191

It is in development phase > https://github.com/fundamental/zyn-ui-two

Link to full concept: http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/LMMS-UI-UX-Design-Concept-Single-Window-523696539 https://www.behance.net/gallery/38503021/LMMS-UIUX-Design-Concept-Single-Window-Interface https://www.behance.net/gallery/194917259/LMMS-Redesign-Concept

Full version (mirror): full version

IvanMaldonado commented 8 years ago

@budislav There is something I don't like about the newest version of the design. You changed the knobs for horizontal sliders on the controllers and there are no faders in the mixer. Some programs like GIMP could use these flat graphics for the controls, because they have always used controls of this kind. Every control should stay like it has always been in my opinion.

tresf commented 8 years ago

You changed the knobs for horizontal sliders on the controllers and there are no faders in the mixer.

Likely to save real-estate.

Every control should stay like it has always been in my opinion.

I think a better justification is that there's more control in granularity if the sliders are kept. I tend to favor the sliders too, personally, as they're quite intuitive when placed directly next to the db readout.

softrabbit commented 8 years ago

There is something I don't like about the newest version of the design. You changed the knobs for horizontal sliders on the controllers and there are no faders in the mixer.

Horizontal sliders, I like them. It's easy to read the level (ok, round knobs with a clear highlighted sector around them aren't as bad as traditional hardware-imitating knobs), and they're easy to layout; you can stack sliders in a sidebar and make it pretty narrow without changing the layout.

zethorpe commented 8 years ago

I didnt see anything in this thread about the piano roll. Has anyone redesigned it to use horizontal lines to differentiate between the white and black keys? I didnt see any discussion about the piano roll except for one image that op posted. especially since the icons for the tools in the piano roll window are horrendus

Spekular commented 8 years ago

Horrendous is neither specific nor kind, perhaps you ought to be less rude and more descriptive?

zethorpe commented 8 years ago

well they just dont look good. they are too detailed to be an icon some of them arent consistant and there is an over use of gradients and drop shadows.

Also on a different note the thing that says "please open a pattern by double-clicking on it" would probably be better as a drop down menu showing all the current patterns.

grejppi commented 8 years ago

@zethorpe Are you aware that there will be a new theme and a new set of icons relatively soon?

zethorpe commented 8 years ago

Are you aware that there will be a new theme and a new set of icons relatively soon?

ive heard about a UI update soon. will it be using this UI design or another?

Umcaruje commented 8 years ago

ive heard about a UI update soon. will it be using this UI design or another?

Check out #2587

vlad0337187 commented 8 years ago

I had seen in 30 of May 2015: https://vk.com/wall-87783789_470 Here 16 LMMS users vote "it's good".

Yes, I agree, it's very very good looking. BUT I think that it'll be great to use this color theme and theme of widgets with only change: -remain design with subwindows in the main window as it's now to allow people choose the best appearance for them. Because one divided window doesn't give users such freedom like it's now.

teamblubee commented 7 years ago

lmms

This is what LMMS looks like on my system. I support this move, if only for the HiDPI support. I am on FreeBSD and the audio tools are all pretty weaksauce over here. LMMS seems to have the best OSS support but trying to do anything useful with UI that tiny is definitely a no-go.

I am even willing to throw in some development time to get this implemented.

With a theme like this in the future people could design their own themes and that will allow LMMS to have multiple themes contributed by the community. I think that we really have to get away from fixed sized display.

ollieperree commented 7 years ago

Is anyone currently working on this? I'm willing to help.

tresf commented 7 years ago

Is anyone currently working on this? I'm willing to help.

No one is working on this. You are welcome to start, but warning it is a very large initiative. If you are not yet familiar with the codebase I strongly recommend you patch a few minor bugs to get familiar prior to tackling such a large first effort.

ollieperree commented 7 years ago

I strongly recommend you patch a few minor bugs to get familiar prior to tackling such a large first effort.

Right, that's what I'm planning to do in the next couple of months, then in July and August I'll hopefully be able to contribute to this project.

michaelgregorius commented 7 years ago

The following steps might be feasible to get this one finally going without getting entangled in the existing LMMS code base:

  1. Acquire the assets from @budislav.
  2. Add a new library to the CMakeLists.txt which only has dependencies to Qt. This library has no connection to LMMS and its functionality.
  3. Implement the different user controls that are needed to compose @budislav's design in that library by subclassing existing Qt Widgets and adjusting their style or by implementing completely new widgets. Use @budislav's assets here and keep the library as generic and reusable as possible. Don't add LMMS specific functionality here.
  4. Test the GUI components of that library by adding a new GUI prototyping executable to the CMakeLists.txt which only has a dependency to the new GUI library and Qt. This executable acts as an experimentation playground that can be compiled quickly without having to compile the full LMMS code base. At a certain point it will likely look a bit like the GTK3 widget factory in that it showcases all implemented new widgets.
  5. Once most of the widgets are implemented add the new GUI library to LMMS and make the existing LMMS widgets subclass from the classes in the library. Add the LMMS specific functionality, e.g. signals and slots, here.
  6. Slowly morph the existing LMMS GUI design towards @budislav's design.

This might also be something nice for an LMMS Git Project as it has several characteristics of a project:

One nice thing with the outlined approach is that the existing LMMS will not be affected in case the project does not make it to step 5. Because a new library and executable is used it is also possible to implement this in master without the need for a separate branch.

Unfortunately I don't have time to manage such a project but perhaps someone else wants to step into this role and use the steps described above as a first project outline.

I am interested to hear your feedback.

vlad0337187 commented 7 years ago

I think, that there's no need in replacing with this standard design. Our new design seems very good to. Maybe it would be better to do, what @michaelgregorius told, but don't slowly change current design to this, but leave two possibilities:

And to implement this color scheme as a variant of LMMS theme and add possibility to choose between them.

budislav commented 7 years ago

@michaelgregorius consider first item on the list without a hitch :) I have all .psd files so that is not problem.

@vlad1777d

I think, that there's no need in replacing with this standard design

Can you explain me what standard design mean?

Our new design seems very good to. Maybe it would be better to do, what @michaelgregorius told, but don't slowly change current design to this, but leave two possibilities:

  • use window-based design
  • use this mono-window design

And to implement this color scheme as a variant of LMMS theme and add possibility to choose between them.

This new concept is all about usability, I think it should be nice to have possibility to just load a theme and make a new one with just selecting a colours somewhere in settings but since this is not only theme but whole new concept you will need this design by default and new theme to build on top of this (editing this theme so you you can make it like old lmms). I really carefully designed all of ui elements so it is very close to original design but it have a new redesigned look. It would be very hard to make this new concept live based on old theme because you don't have this whole new concept designed in old theme. But if they make system for editing theme completely that would be nice.

Leaving possibility to have window-based design is not something I would use and I am sure that nobody would, so that would be just a wasting a time and effort. I don't see a single reason for doing that. It is a very old concept where you wasting your time with click, move, resize a window, close it, find it open it,.... Please try to explore this new concept more I believe you will find it more useful.

But they can make an option to detach this tabbed windows (like in krita) but I really don't see a point.

tresf commented 7 years ago

@vlad1777d, if LMMS is able to, the single-window design is going to happen. This isn't really a vote on current theme versus single-window. At our current rate, single-window is 5yrs+ out and by then we'll be ready for a new theme anyway.

The existing MDI window interface is not well received by newcomers and it's really a design element of the 90s that had it's place but in modern age computing needs to die a horrible peaceful death.

This deep hatred dislike for MDI isn't so much of an opinion as it's a measurement of effective UX/UI over 20 years of computing. The major problem with MDI interfaces is that they require a very good task launcher and keyboard shortcuts to continually bring focus to commonly used windows. A good use-case for this problem is to try to use the mixer window at the same time as the piano roll editor. The two windows don't fit in most monitors without sacrificing critical real estate of one window.

Another downside to MDI is no-docability or non-obvious docability. For example... get one critical element (e.g. the play button) and imagine it moved to the middle of the screen. This is what occurs when there's no reliable location for critical inputs. Single-window solves this by putting critical inputs in sane, predictable areas.

In theory, MDI is a nice concept because it encourages stacking which looks tremendously useful on display however in execution it usually fails because once one window falls behind it's hard to get back to the front.

For these reasons, single-window interfaces have become better options. There are still limitations and downsides which I think have all been mentioned above, but the concept is the best we have at the moment.

vlad0337187 commented 7 years ago

@budislav , under "new design" I mean such colors in theme: lmms_theme_new new automation new grid (I couldn't find images in issues, so I uploaded them here) I like this style. I'm not sure, I want to change it to colors from this topic. But I like colors from this topic too, so, I think, would be better to add them both, for example, to .css files and add ability to change themes.

@budislav , @tresf , about single window. I agree, that current MDI system has problems. If new system would be something like is in Blender (you can move plane borders and change type of all planes (for example, one plane is Piano Roll, but you can resize it and switch it to display Song Editor) - than I like this idea.

If it would be something like fixed-length (for example, 300px) areas, that I cannot resize or change their type (to change layout) - I dislike it.

The reason for me to like approach with windows - I can resize them and move. So I can change the layout (for example, Song Editor was in the top of screen, I resized it and moved into the bottom of screen)

tresf commented 7 years ago

If it would be something like fixed-length [...] I dislike it.

It would be as dynamic as humanly possible.

I like [current] style [... and ...] ability to change themes.

If we keep it .css, this will be possible.

budislav commented 7 years ago

If new system would be something like is in Blender (you can move plane borders and change type of all planes (for example, one plane is Piano Roll, but you can resize it and switch it to display Song Editor) - than I like this idea.

No, not like blender but more easier, faster and suitable for LMMS. You can resize those tabbed windows and reorder them, move them on a second monitor, and they are automatically snapping to all edges so you don't need to worry about overlapping, resizing them ect. You can make a lot of personal layout with this system depending on your screen size.

You only can't resize width of controller rack, and height of instrument and effect rack or both of racks if you split them. They simply have fixed height or width. Now just imagine a freedom of making your own layout. And on the top you have a list of saved layouts you can switch between them so you don't need to touch anything and if you do, you can save that layout. Is that enough control for you?

vlad0337187 commented 7 years ago

@budislav , @tresf , than all is well =) It would be great if we could switch from this color theme to that dark, that's currently in LMMS.

tresf commented 7 years ago

It would be great if we could switch from this color theme to that dark, that's currently in LMMS.

@vlad1777d changing the color is always going to be possible however the mockup above would most likely be the initial target for the first release.

budislav commented 7 years ago

@vlad1777d Theme from this design is already "dark" (white on black), just with blue tones. I choosed that color scheme because of LMMS 1.1.3. I wanted to make something common, to look like a child of old LMMS, not to destroy him completely. It is made to be good on laptop screens with very low screen brightness and for good monitors. Contrast should not be a problem but I didn't received any feedback on this so, It is what it is.

budislav commented 7 years ago

I just noticed it have past two years and 33 days since I presented this to community.

65874759

michaelgregorius commented 7 years ago

@budislav I think we are all aware that this issue is open for quite some time now. :) However, it's no small feat to implement a completely new design. That's why I proposed to handle it as a project with a coarse plan to get it going.

I think a big factor in what's holding LMMS back is that most of the features are implemented by individual developers and that there is only so much an individual developer can do. Another thing is that even if a developer decides to implement a big feature on his/her own that there is the risk that the changes don't make it into the project and that this work is wasted then. An official project approach might also help with this because it can be seen as some form of commitment of the LMMS team / project that the big new features are really wanted.

@tresf Do you think it makes sense that @budislav commits his assets to the LMMS artwork project? This would be a feasible first step which might in turn motivate others to use the artwork to implement new widgets using it.

Another question would be whether we can use the PSD files or whether we need them in another format? Can GIMP open PSD files? Do the PSD files have some useful features that are not covered by open source equivalents and that might go missing with a conversion?

tresf commented 7 years ago

@tresf Do you think it makes sense that @budislav commits his assets to the LMMS artwork project?

I don't think it has a whole lot of value in lmms/artwork as a proof of concept.

This would be a feasible first step which might in turn motivate others to use the artwork to implement new widgets using it.

I'm not sure if that's true. Most of the mockup above is a style sheet, font or very small glyph (or perhaps eventually an svg). The small glyphs really don't have a home until the UI starts to take shape I think and if for some reason @budislav becomes unavailable we have several capable people that can re-create them based on the mockup.

I think the largest task here and what's sure to drive momentum is what you've already identified, and that's a commitment by the team as well as well as what I believe was mentioned previously, the start of a second UI that eradicates the MDI container.

Perhaps another approach is to start Core/UI separation first with our existing codebase, but that's less sexy so it has less marketing appeal in general.

Part of me wonders if we could take this in a brand new direction and actually start a spinoff project; something that's loosely based off of LMMS.

Hard to see the forest for the trees.

BaraMGB commented 7 years ago

Part of me wonders if we could take this in a brand new direction and actually start a spinoff project; something that's loosely based off of LMMS.

Do you mean a complete rewrite?

budislav commented 7 years ago

@michaelgregorius @tresf I am aware this is not small task but why two years just to make a new branch or fork or to start Core/UI separation? :) I think @Wallacoloo started doing Core/UI separation?

I am not programmer and I don't know how LMMS code works but this is what I would do if I am developer like you guys.

Decide you really want this new UI. I think almost everyone from community agreed this is the the best way for LMMS future. I am not selling anything I think this is just good enough to sell itself :) But if you think this is really good, don't ask anyone else for opinion. You are not genie from the magic lamp or goldfish, you are not here to satisfy all wishes.

You are working on something you think it is good, or you want to make it good right? Because on the end nobody will pay you to do anything. I see some conservative users who don't like new design, they also don't like new gnome, or kde, they never liked unity or anything new. You don't need to care about them. If you have a fear that nobody will use new UI you shouldn't be. If you make new UI I can bet nobody from old users would click on download button of that old version ever again.

If you think that old LMMS will fall apart then make a fork of old LMMS and make a completely new project. When I started redesigning I had just idea about how it should look, but on the beginning that was just an idea. After a half year I completed it. Zyn Fusion project lasted over one year with 4 different versions.

How much it could have been done for two years? Don't judging anyone, just asking, only curiosity :)

If you decided to do new UI in this same LMMS, I am sure you need to stop doing old design, old way, implementing new features on that way. Stop doing bug fixes and focus only on how to make this UI possible.

If you need more developers ask them on g+ community, facebook, email old developers, friend developers, ask on kde forum, here, anywhere. How many developers you need for this? If nobody are willing to contribute, not a big deal, right? Maybe it is better if one or two brains do the whole logic :)

In my case I like that. I think if someone start changing this concept he would just broke that consistency. That is the problem with present design it looks like 300 peoples worked together but everyone on his way. let's put this and this.. There are no guidelines, nothing, everyone design how ever he want, so it looks like alpha version not like it's how many years old? Design is not the thing you can just jump in.

So without guidelines you can just broke design. With this kind of design I think you can't broke it so easily because it's modular, if you just using ui controls you have, following the guidelines. It's like GUI framework for music software. Maybe you need to make this. I don't see knobs not in gtk or qt framework and I don't understand that. But I think @fundamental made this?

After I proposed this design you guys started working on new GUI theme based on this design instead doing exactly on this design. And now users like @vlad1777d want to have that new theme instead of this theme? Is there something wrong about this design? I didn't get any feedback on that, if you just said me we don't like gray and blue, can you make black and green I would say yes I can, but first can we make this.

I worked on Photoshop in that time because Krita just started implementing .psd layer styles so I thought it would be really compatible but it is not. Krita do not open .psd so good so I need to redo everything in Inkscape .svg because GIMP and Krita are not the tool for UI design. It's not hard for me, I mean I would redo everything in Inkscape but I would like to know if someone really going to start developing this?

Nobody said you have a deadline but this experiment could have started two years ago right? :)

Did anyone knows which year was the first release of LMMS? Is there are one screenshot of that release? I would like to see it :)

I just found first message on source forge developer mailing list from Tobias Doerffel from 2005-06-27 (12 years ago) there are no messages before that.

Hi everybody, finally after 324 days of development LMMS 0.0.9 has been released! Compare to 0.0.8 it has been almost completely rewritten. The result is a quite stable, clean and powerful new LMMS, which brings a lot of new features.

Maybe it's time for one more complete rewrite. :)

tresf commented 7 years ago

This says it all:

finally after 324 days of development LMMS 0.0.9 has been released!

It's a lot of work. Let's not criticize or minimize the ongoing effort to get this done. For example, the theme change is hardly related to single window. They both change appearance and require new art, but that's where the similarities end. This task will start when someone has either 324 days of extra (thankless) time on their hands -- or alternately -- a very organized (lead-devel styled) rewrite approach.

vlad0337187 commented 7 years ago

@budislav , I told about that new design, because I made several mockups for it =)

Your design I saw first time near 2 years ago, so I got used to it. I posted it in our Russian LMMS community: https://vk.com/wall-87783789_470 , that's proof that I liked it (19 people liked, 2 disliked, 17 people want this into LMMS, 4 - don't).

Why do people started to work on new instead of implementing this? I think, because making new colors is easier, than making new GUI + colors. But we have what we have: 2 good color schemes. I don't know exactly why, but it's so. I think, we must save what we have. Taking in mind, that tastes differ, I think, it would be better to make 2 color themes and add ability to switch between them.

If I could - I could write GUI, but I know Python\GTK\Vala\Coffeescript, not C++ and QT. Learning C++ can take near year, so I cannot do this now. QT is enough large too, so I cannot start working on it.

I think, would be better to do, what @michaelgregorius told here: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1911#issuecomment-298107170 : to start making core and GUI more separate. after this, can be created second GUI, which launches functions of core. It can have this looking, loaded from .css file (or something like it, if QT doesn't support .css theming). Also we could create two types of widgets: one - for this theme, one - for black. And load them according to chosen theme. (some widgets can be copied from current theme) This will allow to have differences not only in colors, but also in shapes of UI. So we will have current theme in single window + this theme.

We need now only to wait =)

RebeccaDeField commented 7 years ago

@budislav I do not mean to bring this thread off topic but I could not find your email address anywhere to message you. I would like to invite you to our server on Discord at https://discordapp.com/invite/3sc5su7. This is where the design related developers on our team post UI wips and where much of the informal dev communication takes place. Would be quite nice to have you included in those conversations.

budislav commented 7 years ago

@RebeccaLaVie Thanks, I didn't know for that chat on Discord, I will join for sure :)

RebeccaDeField commented 7 years ago

I know we all want to see the Single Window Concept implemented as soon as possible, but we also must acknowledge that it may take quite some time to get there. I do believe that just because we have not yet realized the goal of eradicating the floating windows yet, that we can't put @Budislav's work to good use. I think we agreed on that particularly with the Instrument Plugins project and future projects I had planned to improve the UX can utilize many of the ideas illustrated in his mockups even with our current limitations.

I have touched base with Budislav about this and we both agree that any effort spent on integrating his work would be better spent on the layout and usability, while still keeping to the color palette we are using in the current default theme. We can think about recoloring the LMMS skin in the future, but what we have now works well. Unfortunately, we discovered that in order to use his designs in Inkscape, they will have to be recreated from scratch. I have attached a very rough mockup of the Single Window Concept made in GIMP using our current colors. We can use this as a reference to make use of his layout ideas without worrying about clashing colors, if needed.

green 1

The plan is to take this one project at a time, starting with the instrument plugins, then moving to the areas of the program that need the most help to make the LMMS more user friendly. :)

cc @Umcaruje @BaraMGB

EDIT: I do not know if this is only on my end, but the link somehow made the text of this comment garbled when posted. For some reason, taking out the link has fixed this for me. I hope anyone confused in email understands my updated message on Github now.

musikBear commented 7 years ago

we discovered that in order to use his designs in Inkscape, they will have to be recreated from scratch

Is that because of incompatible graphic-files? There are covertion tools that can do (almost) everything, surely inkskape exports as BMP.. or?

budislav commented 7 years ago

@musikBear nothing to worry about. There are no need for .svg's at this point, because LMMS already contains all elements I used in mockup like knobs and buttons.. They will use same css styles from Noir theme so there is no need for designing or changing anything in Inkscape. Everything will be drawn from software this is one of main feature of my design so UI will be ready for retina one day. They just need to use measure tool in Gimp or any plugin for browser which can do that :)

ghost commented 7 years ago

This looks so good! I

NETMANSKY commented 7 years ago

@budislav your job is great! I don't understand why developers stubborns. I wanna this UI. New UI now!!!

RebeccaDeField commented 7 years ago

@netman2k8 I pulled some comments about what our developers think of this concept from this thread.

For your (awesome!) LMMS-UI-Concept I fear this requires a complete rewrite of LMMS's GUI.

Very interested to know the possibility of this.

As far as a singleton window, we likely have thousands of lines to clean-up to make this a possibility, but your mockup is delightful and we're likely to use it as a reference point when discussing major UI changes in the future, thank you!

What type of overhaul are we looking at here if we were to adopt this new UI?

To do this proper, we probably would be best splitting this initiative into some higher level components and go from there.

If LMMS is able to, the single-window design is going to happen. This isn't really a vote on current theme versus single-window. At our current rate, single-window is 5yrs+ out and by then we'll be ready for a new theme anyway.

None of the developers are actually apposed to @budislav's work. We are a very small team, without the resources to implement the single window mockup at this time. The complexity of the task if we are to even have anyone join our team with the skills or time needed to pull this off has very little to do with stubbornness.

NETMANSKY commented 7 years ago

@RebeccaLaVie I read these comments early. I'm not coder and disigner but soundproducer. And I can not help you directly but I want to do. I love LMMS, but as an end user I had to move to a commercial DAW that is developed by only two people! And yet they do not limit their DAW at the end of the trial period, and the price is only 60$. Won't mention the name here, but it is one of the most quoted DAW. It has everything, but I want to see it in LMMS: VST stability, usability, openness to communicate with other DAW. Only two guys made it. And You write about a small team and lack of resources. That's no reason not to make a good product. But in my opinion may be it should to change a conception? May be need to try gather up some money on kickstarter or another place if you have no resources? @unfa offered money but I found no answer for this. Your slogan - Made by musicians, for musicians, in my opinion, mismatch reality. Your forum thread -Suggestions: Got a great idea for the future of LMMS? almost unrequited. I know my posts: https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25821#p47118 https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25821#p47128 will not requited! I fear I will never see it in LMMS. I will never see @budislav GUI...

tresf commented 7 years ago

Only two guys made it. And You write about a small team and lack of resources. That's no reason not to make a good product.

Stop this rubbish now. Get this conversation off of our tracker. If you want endless discussion, go to Discord. If it continues, we'll lock the thread.

NETMANSKY commented 7 years ago

@tresf I'm so sorry that my opinion hurt and angered you. So sorry... @budislav Брат. искренне тебе сочувствую, но ты сделал отличный прорыв в GUI этой программы! Но это же Европа, что они еще могут... У них свои понятия.

michaelgregorius commented 7 years ago

Won't mention the name here, but it is one of the most quoted DAW. It has everything, but I want to see it in LMMS: VST stability, usability, openness to communicate with other DAW. Only two guys made it. And You write about a small team and lack of resources. That's no reason not to make a good product.

I think it's no problem to mention that it's REAPER. Yes, it is produced by only a handful of people. One of them is Justin Frankel who became a multi millionaire from selling Winamp to AOL and who likely has lots of free time at hand. They are also in a position where they can develop their product as full time jobs (combined with a lot of passion).

This is quite a difference to having a software developed by a handful of people who do it in their spare time over the internet with no real project management tool (but also with a lot of passion). All these points make it hard to focus on specific features or have a real focus at all. However, I have already written about most of the problems that I see in another comment in this thread and don't want to repeat myself.

tresf commented 7 years ago

@netman2k8, we want to channel your interest and enthusiasm, this just isn't a good place for it, I'm sorry. The developers hang out on Discord and this type of conversation is permitted in #general and #programming (please not #devtalk). Let's continue there. Then you can voice your opinion and get proper feedback without the risk of bulking up our GitHub tracker. For discussion around a Kickstarter campaign: #2745.

winniehell commented 5 years ago

I really love the design suggested here and understand that it's a lot of work, so I would like to help.

I can imagine that the following change in concept would be a first iteration into the right direction:

That is each window has one the following states:

Does this suggestion make sense?

/cc @blinry because you mentioned interest in this, too :smiley:

winniehell commented 5 years ago

To explain a bit the reasoning behind my suggestion:

I don't think implementing this new design all at once is a good idea because it does not only change how things look but also changes several workflows. In my experience it helps to break down such a big task in small bits that can be released individually. That way the maintenance cost for the fork or feature branch is reduced and also user see small improvements earlier.

Most of the suggestion in my previous comment (https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1911#issuecomment-520149997) is actually to remove existing functionality in the UI. My hope is that this does not only improve user experience but also code complexity (without having looked at the code at all). The only part which requires new functionality being added are the detached windows. I'm happy to make that a separate issue in case it needs further discussion.

I'm a developer and have worked with C++ and Qt in the past, so I'm willing to give implementing my suggestion a try.

NETMANSKY commented 5 years ago

@winniehell As you know @budislav offered a new one-windowed design of LMMS. It was absolutely revolutionary idea in that time. But community rejected him... I still looking his design and crying. Maybe yet is not late? Is not too late?.. In my opinion:

I'll risk to offer to re-look @budislav idea as main direction to development of 1.3 version.

tresf commented 5 years ago

@winniehell I believe your argument is, "lets cripple change the interface now to prepare the users for the inevitable". I'm not sure I agree (I'm only one opinion, so take it with a grain of salt).

So although I appreciate the top-down design, I don't think removing a minimizing button is going to help the effort.

I'll risk to offer to re-look @budislav idea as main direction to development of 1.3 version.

Perhaps when we get away from conceptual talk. @budislav's interface design is pretty clear to me. @winniehell is trying to help plan these changes, not necessarily dispute design.

I'm a developer and have worked with C++ and Qt in the past, so I'm willing to give implementing my suggestion a try.

👍 👍

winniehell commented 5 years ago

The only part which requires new functionality being added are the detached windows.

It looks like this is already being worked on in https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/3532. Sorry for the noise! :see_no_evil:

tresf commented 5 years ago

@winniehell here's what I'm talking about in regards to responsive layout: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2068

This is an attempt by @michaelgregorius to make all of our LADSPA plugins "just fit" inside a container. I feel we first need to move all UI components into responsive containers in order for single-window to be viable.