The greatest rebalance mod I‘ve ever seen！

[MeteorA7Lee]

Truly there have already existed a lot of mods that want to balance this game，but none of them did as well as yours. I think what brakes this game most is the broken proc chain and the endless growing range of some items，that makes the game so boring in the later period， it‘s also the way how you made balances. However, totally removing the proc chain is not the best way in my view……It’s also a unique feature of this game，isn‘t it？I think the main issue is the clover，how about try to chance it‘s stuck effect？Like add some proc items damage rather than make the proc chain more easily to start？If you are available，I‘m glad to tell more about my idea about the items rebalance，thank a lot.

[Moffein]

Sure thing, feel free to tell me what you got. Clover stacking was something I had in mind since it gets pretty out of hand and laggy once someone gets a bunch, but I wasn't too sure where to go with it. For proc chains, I feel like there might be a few items that could justify having low proc coefficients (ex. Ukulele, Meathook), while others (ex. the on-kills, Tesla) end up being too dominant if they have any chance to proc.

[MeteorA7Lee]

Glad to extend some of my opinions. The first thing is that the Berzerker is too OP，only one can provide 100% attack speed and +50% move speed which last 6s，the time may last too long？I main，I can always hold the Maximum buffs and seldom discontinue in the entire game（except for Mithrix fight）. It‘s contrary to it’s original intention—— kill lots of enemies in a short time that you can gain a nice buff. So what about try to halve it‘s duration OR halve the attack speed and move speed and double the max pile？ The chance of Chronobauble is great，but I think is‘t still too conservative，way not make the Damage Taken can be piled？What I think is，the real balance is，every item is worth to pile ，but not things like“ one Chronobauble is good enough，and now I should get as much ATG as I can."Also the same idea can be used on the Grenade，such as，when I stun an enemy then he takes more damage ect. So the Leeching Seed is still a junk item……What about get some buffs when you get healed OR get X% heal form damage when the HP lower then a certain point？In my view, it's a quite easy way to enhace a weak item by add some extra effort（mostly，DAMAGE ）on them. Glad to share these，and thanks for all the work you've again XD

[Moffein]

Shortening the duration of Berzerker's is something I could consider doing, since it takes a long time for all stacks of the buff to expire. I'll have to experiment and figure out how much I should lower it though.

I'm hesitant to make Chronobauble's damage bonus stack since it's an item that gives a multiplier to your entire damage output, and stacking it on top of crits and all the other modded items that give raw damage is a bit much. I'll give the stacking behavior some thought, but I'm not in a rush to make changes to it.

I think vanilla stun grenades are fine (and pretty underrated), since being able to stop an Elder Lemurian mid-attack is already a strong effect.

I'll take a look at Leeching Seed. Percent heal is something I originally considered, but was hesitant to do so. Ideally I'd like to leave it as a flat HP heal (like vanilla Scythes), but if I can't make that work I'll look at trying out other things. Right now, at +3HP/stack, it gives a similar amount of HP to Vanilla Scythes when stacking (Vanilla scythes are +4HP/stack) but without needing crits to trigger it.

[MeteorA7Lee]

Long time no see due to some of my work……But I'm still following the mod with interest. Surprised to see this mod have already been updated a lot！And there are some my suggestions for the further update.

First, about the clover changes，I think it can be designed like the Scepter，that more than one clovers will randomly turn into other red items.（But for sure，some changes about the purity also should be done）

Second，can you just add some config to change the teleport/void/mass/ship's radius and charge speed？ Even the rewards of mass charging are given，it's still a little bit unsatisfied. （maybe every full charged mass can have some effection on Mithrix？I think it will be fun）And I think it's OK to add some airflow and jump points in the final stage, just to help these guys who didn't pick enough movement speed items to feel less painful.

Third，some red items are still too weak. What the main problem in red item is that they are so specific. Think that if I played the Loader and only pick up N'Kuhana，Rack or Plant in the entire game, it will be absolutely a bad game experience. ( just an example，we all know the Loader doesn't rely on red items too much……） So, what I said is, the red items are supposed to be more effective for all the survivors due to it's rarity, at least, some won't be entire rubbish for some survivors.

Aegis，N'Kuhana，Rack. They are all seem to be specially designed for Engi. (They don't seem too bad for other survivors since the seed have the percentage healing，but they are still not powerful red items）

Happiest mask makes me upset, it can be a fun item but it's not. So, I think it's OK to give it a 100% chance to trigger, but add a cd (just like 20s). And lower the damage multiply, add some movement speed and attack speed just to make the mob's attack be more effective.

Forth，as the OSP has a long cd，I can hardly survive in a long run，the only choice is to stack Shadowfade（even stacking the bears is still not safe）but in vanilla I can use the combination of Rack and Planula to help me be invincible.（it's a unhealthy mode, but I can see something through this……）, it's that the enemies’damage is rather high after the first loop，if I'm being hit，I can only depend on the OSP.

So that's also why almost everyone runs the later loops in an automatic way（in vanilla，just see the Daggers and Missiles fly in the sky）,cause taking every single damage can be deadly. So，you can see the items on damage and on defense have rather disproportionate growth curve，may it still too cautious for you to enhance the infusion and other defense items？(Or can you rebalance the enemies’ damage growth？）

[Moffein]

Glad to hear from you again!

For Clovers, ideally I'd like to see if I can still keep stacking in some way. Making it like Scepter where it caps out at +1 luck is something I've considered, but I'd like to keep it stackable like the other Vanilla items.

A lot of hosts I play with use mods to increase the size of the Moon and Void holdout zones, so I can look at adding those changes into the mod. In the meantime, RiskyArtifacts' Artifact of Expansion has config options for these settings.

N'Kuhana being situational is something that's bugged me for the longest time. I don't really feel it's in dire need of changes compared to other items, but it's something I'll keep in mind. Personally I find Rack fine, if not a bit boring.

Happiest mask being guaranteed but on a cooldown sounds pretty good, I'll look at that.

I find that OSP is fine since it stacks on top of Shield Gating as well. The main issue I've had is enemies being slightly too tanky due to the removal of proc chains, which is something I've been trying to fine-tune. Enemy damage while looping is lower than vanilla due to the linear run scaling, but I'll take a look at how it scales deep in to runs, since I usually only go 10-15 stages in.

I'm definitely not opposed to tweaking Infusion and other defensive items some more. Was considering making Infusion stack infinitely like 1, but with every 100 orbs gained causing the health value to diminish (first 100 orbs gives 100hp, next 100 gives 75, etc.)

[MeteorA7Lee]

So，uh，do you still remember what I said before？That I think it's OK to give more items damage bonus as the proc chain has been removed.

Well，after some experimental runs，I think you are right to give OSP a basic CD as now I can always recover form low HP quickly due to the Seed（may it seems a little bit OP now？）

And now I don‘t think too much about items，though they are not totally satisfactory，but，well，some of them are much better then before. ( but，what do you think about medkit and plant？I still don't like them at all……）

As now I see you are working on the survivors tweaks，I have some ideas about it. Like the Loader can be more specific on her speed（like reduce her basic damage but add her damage bonus from speed，and I think her M2 and first shift are in a good situation，may only need some numerical value change）

I’ve seen your another mod called ”savage acrid“，to be honest，I don't think it's the best way to balance him like this，due to this game's environment is much more dangerous to the melee than other similar games（One reason may be the monsters‘ Sight Range ’s change so the players are easier to be exposed under tons of attack）. Like Merc has invincibility to protect himself and Loader is not a traditional melee as she can gather all her damage into one hit，so most of time she is on a safe place，waiting for next punch.

So，I mean，if this kind of problem is not changed，put the key point on Acrid’s poison maybe still the best way……AS to strength his melee ability may create a monster that is built by high figure and hard to balance. （just like the juggernaut in LOL，if you know it）But，anyhow，there still exist some great melee mod such as Sett，maybe you will find some inspiration on it？

As now I will always play this game with banning the printer，scraper and the shop because I think it's too boring to get the any exact item you want，at least，”random“ is the most fun of Rogue，and I will feel even tired to go to the shop after every stage，roll and select the lunar items，or waiting for the 3D printers or scrapers，ect…… All these things destroy the fun of the game. So I may also not good at providing issues about “what if some items stack too high”.

I really say a lot this time，hope you don't mind about some of words I said that you may think they are meaningless……

I will share a interesting video about Engi with you by e-mail，and the last thing I want to ask is what’s the meaning of the Chinese characters on your HAND mod？I‘m a little curious about it. XP

[MeteorA7Lee]

Well, it's a truly funny interact of mask and Engi’s turrets. Though I have find it for a long time, but I can only do this by stacking lots of clovers before.  But now, only one mask can do this well. So want do you think about it？Do you want to change it?（As the CD can't be removed by Shower or just add some black lists. After all，it's too OP.） or just retain it as a interesting interact of Chaos？

------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------ 发件人: "Moffein/RiskyMod" @.>; 发送时间: 2021年12月8日(星期三) 凌晨1:37 @.>; @.>;"State @.>; 主题: Re: [Moffein/RiskyMod] The greatest rebalance mod I‘ve ever seen！ (Issue #2)

Glad to hear from you again!

For Clovers, ideally I'd like to see if I can still keep stacking in some way. Making it like Scepter where it caps out at +1 luck is something I've considered, but I'd like to keep it stackable like the other Vanilla items.

A lot of hosts I play with use mods to increase the size of the Moon and Void holdout zones, so I can look at adding those changes into the mod. In the meantime, RiskyArtifacts' Artifact of Expansion has config options for these settings.

N'Kuhana being situational is something that's bugged me for the longest time. I don't really feel it's in dire need of changes compared to other items, but it's something I'll keep in mind. Personally I find Rack fine, if not a bit boring.

Happiest mask being guaranteed but on a cooldown sounds pretty good, I'll look at that.

I find that OSP is fine since it stacks on top of Shield Gating as well. The main issue I've had is enemies being slightly too tanky due to the removal of proc chains, which is something I've been trying to fine-tune. Enemy damage while looping is lower than vanilla due to the linear run scaling, but I'll take a look at how it scales deep in to runs, since I usually only go 10-15 stages in.

I'm definitely not opposed to tweaking Infusion and other defensive items some more. Was considering making Infusion stack infinitely like 1, but every 100 orbs gained causes the health value to diminish (first 100 orbs gives 100hp, next 100 gives 75, etc.)

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从QQ邮箱发来的超大附件

It's truly THE ”Happiest“ mask.mp4 (336.53M, 2022年01月08日 22:08 到期)进入下载页面：http://mail.qq.com/cgi-bin/ftnExs_download?t=exs_ftn_download&k=3a3363666f11cf8e5cedf91a15620a4b5a50050400015a504e035600064f0c0101034e5e0b005b49570a075200570102060453523346382d1714104647104d081a13372e764299d52b5213165a074b10c283430b5211534a0e4357660e&code=c3cf3b8d

[Moffein]

I'm a big fan of Medkits, and I think they're in the right spot of having a strong effect while not being a 100% must-take item like Tri-Tips and Lensmaker Glasses, though they aren't as useful once you start looping and have a ton of healing items. Desk Plant is definitely pretty underwhelming, but I haven't thought of ways it could be tweaked.

As for survivor tweaks, It's likely that Loader/Acrid may end up quite different from their Vanilla versions, as I feel they lack depth, both being entirely based around a single gimmick (Loader being entirely reliant on Grapple+Shift, Acrid simply passively killing the map with R without worrying about items) while not having much nuance to their playstyle.

I've only got a few vague ideas for Loader, but I want to change her so that she's not known as the easy-mode survivor that gets laughed at when people pick her, while still keeping the fun parts of her gameplay (like her Grappling Hook + Shift combo) intact. I'm considering tweaking her M1 and giving her a selectable passive where she chooses between barrier-on-hit or bonus damage while going fast, but nothing is concrete until I actually get to test her out in-game.

For Acrid, I'll likely be going a very different direction from Savage Acrid. I'd like to change his kit to be closer to his RoR1 kit, which was based around stacking multiple different DoTs on enemies, rather than simply pressing R and passively killing the entire map with poison damage. I have a few ideas in mind, but I'll need to actually test them in-game to see if they play well.

I'll take a look at the Happiest Mask when I get the chance. I'll probably increase the cooldown, while keeping the Blast Shower interaction since I like the idea of it interacting with more items than just Elemental Bands.

The HAN-D subtitle is a joke about the poor-quality hardsubs that are often found in bootleg DVDs. I took the phrase "Kill Magma Worm" (since HAN-D was known for being able to deal massive damage to Magma Worms in RoR1), and ran it through Google Translate multiple times until it became something nonsensical, and translated it back to English at the end. I added a bunch of 啊 characters as a reference to the infamous Duwang translation of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 4, where "Ora Ora Ora" is translated as 啊啊啊.

[MeteorA7Lee]

About Plant，I think it can be designed like REX‘s second R（Or Tooth），kill an enemy will possibly drop a “fruit” and pick it up will randomly strengthen your movement/attack/regen speed or give some damage/armor bonus（a little bit like Filial Imprinting in 1）.

And what about make the Medkit's buff can be stacked？（But of cause the healing of per stacked buff should be reduced）Then it may be a balance for those survivors who can‘t easily leave combat.

For survivor tweaks，I approve your opinions on “Depth”，which I my view，It’s a symbol of good combination of each skill，and most skills have a good interaction with enemies that makes the players feel a lot of fun.

Just Like Merc，who depends too much on his R. Though the anniversary update gives his primary skill a new buff，most of players may still press RRRRRRR and forget they have M1 in the late game. What if expose is not only a buff that does damage and reduces CD? Can it have a specific buff on his each skill？Like trigger the expose with R will strengthen this R，etc. (And about his shift, I think it's great to remove attack speed scaling. Dash scale with move speed is OK, a better solution for better melee comboing can be done like shift will end up at finally enemy's back it hit. ）

Loader is a strong survivor due to her high basic stats，I think we should nerf her high stats and encourage some more skillful play ways like using M2 to grab the Pylon and give a punch to enemies at the maximum speed. One idea is her primary skill can charge for her Gauntlet（like add some basic damage or add the speed bonus，what inspired me is Sett‘s Haymaker Grit Bonus Damage），another crazy idea is deleting her Knuckleboom and it will turn to a buff skill which totally serve for the Gauntlet.

Acrid，as you said，don't need too much items and can do tons of damage（especially in monsoon and multi-players eclipse）only by spreading poison and without any risk. I think we can make him a poison master who combines several kinds of poisons（just like what you said，lots of dots，and now I think what about add even more Debuffs？）One primary idea is change his primary skill into poison kinds changing like MULT's R（Which is a way totally give up his melee ability. ) And as you said his R is too easy to spread the poison，it can be designed like a finish skill，it won't add any poison on enemies，but trigger all the remaining dots damages on enemies，so he should add poisons on enemies only by his M2 and shift，and change the poison type，press M2 again……Finally，press R and BOOM！I think it's pretty Cool.

Finally，the reason why I’m curious about these Chinese characters is I‘m a native Chinese speaker，so it may also be the reason why sometimes I select the words that seems not idiomatic. So I also don't know much about the ”infamous Duwang translation“……(In Chinese, star platinum's "Ora" is translated into 欧拉 rather than 啊，which is more similar in the pronunciation ) But whatever，I’m a big fun for JoJo's Bizarre Adventure，who is waiting for the update of stone ocean and the coming soon JoJolands.

Anyway，I‘m pretty glad to talk all of these with you. :p

[Moffein]

Combining Desk Plant with Filial Imprinting sounds interesting, I'll give that some thought.

I'll be leaving Medkit the same as Vanilla, since it's already a decent item.

I think Mercenary is pretty much perfect already. I'd like to add some client-side QoL options to his Shift skills in the config, but I think his kit already has a good amount of depth in how he can combo his skills.

I'll keep your thoughts about Loader/Acrid in mind.

That bit about the proper Chinese translation of "Ora" is interesting! The Duwang translation was the first English translation of Part 4 from over a decade ago, and it ended up becoming a joke due to being really low quality (apparently it was some Chinese student's project for an English class that he ended up failing).