USB-C?

[daling]

Hey, a few weeks ago I got a pretty awesome idea: would it be possible to hack this iron into having USB-C PD input?

The USB-C specs allows for 3A at 20V, or even 5A. This would mean that it would be able to power the iron from like any common available charger. Sadly I don't have the knowledge nor the skills to pull this off .

Wouldn't that be pretty awesome? :D

I did some research and fount out that the STM32F0 devices can be used for USB-C PD. The STM32 in this TS100 is a STM32F1 and seems currently not supported. But my knowledge about STM32's and USB PD is very limited, maybe someone out there is able to tell us more.

[qoobaa]

Take a look at ZY12PDS on Aliexpress. It's much better than the previous board. I used it to make an adapter for Thinkpad, and it works flawlessly. It costs $12, allows to select voltage by soldering pads on the PCB (no buttons). It's also very tiny - can be easily wrapped in using a heat shrink tube.

[mtp-24]

@qoobaa Hey that looks awesome! How do you choose the voltage? I can't seem to understand the instructions.

Like how do I set it to 20v for the TS100?

I'm also thinking of getting the version with the USB-A port and the button so I can cycle thru the voltages and just use a USB to DC cable.

By the way, does the ZY12PDS support both PD and QC3.0?

[qoobaa]

It's 20V by default, (XX means no connections). If I understand correctly, you just need to solder these pads according to the description below them (I haven't tried), X means no connection, O means the pads are soldered.

[mtp-24]

So for your cable you didn't solder any of the pads and your using 20v? This might be the cheapest way to have USB PD on the TS100. Based on the product description ZY12PDS might support QC3.0 as well but I can't be certain because the translation is pretty bad. The other PCB versions that have a button also have an LED indicator that can change color to indicate which voltage is set.

[qoobaa]

Yes - it's 20V without soldering any pads. I use it with an Anker power adapter with PD support only (no QC), works perfectly.

[clowrey]

That is awesome! I bought the model from YZXStudio with button - but if wired directly to the TS100 it will enter into USB programming mode when powering up on 5V - so it never goes to soldering mode even after 20V... You could avoid this if you use an adapter cable, but I wanted to permanently solder the USB-C-PD board to the TS100 so it will be always connected. But this model that does 20V always hopefully avoids this problem? Has anyone tested yet?

[qoobaa]

I've got two spare modules atm, I'll test it when I find some time.

[mtp-24]

Maybe I'll wait for your test before I order. Just to see if there are issues like jumping to a lower voltage

[clowrey]

On second thought there is really no way it could not supply 5v when first connected as that is always the default of the cable.. so probably have to modify the firmware of the TS100 to behave like I want. Or put a mosfet to only supply power once 20v is reached. Both modules should work you just have to power up the USB-C-PD module before it is connected to the soldering iron.

[Ralim]

@clowrey starting it on 5V should not enter the iron into USB mode unless you are using miniware firmware. My firmware does not do this. (Which would be one easy solution around this)

[clowrey]

Thanks @Ralim I will try change the firmware.. Mine is still on the default firmware it came with, not sure what that is.

[mtp-24]

I suddenly realised, can I actually get the full 20V with the ZY12PDS that has a USB Type A port? I ready somewhere that PD is only for USB C to USB C. Is that accurate or it doesn't matter? What if I connect the ZY12PDS using USB Type A to DC 5.5 2.5 will the TS100 still get the 20v?

with

[clowrey]

Yes I believe it will...not safe of course if you mistakenly plug anything else into that USB port when it's on the 20V mode but it should work. Be aware some of those USB to 5.5 will not fit the soldering iron which needs an extra large center pin connector. Also allot of them use like 24-28awg "copper" to save a few cents.. I had some that were really bad so try to get one with 18AWG or larger.

[mtp-24]

Thanks! What would be the issues when using 24-28 awg instead of a beefier 18 awg? I'm just starting out and not yet too familiar with electronics.

[clowrey]

I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

[provalinf]

Top, I just made myself a usb-c jack cable, as I use it as well in DC5525 and USB-C.

[joric]

@clowrey where are the technical details? It's not instagram. What's Type-C-20V adapter did you use? Is it custom made? Is it from Aliexpress?

[clowrey]

I only use USB-C: my laptop + phone and now my soldering iron all use the same cable/adapter never thought that would happen but the day has come!

The PCB is called YZPDS by YZYStudio - same manufacturer as most of the others above, but new smaller model that defaults to 20V output.

Okay I have updated my page with real links to the products: https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

[whitehoose]

It works! ... I expect a great possibility of instant success.

I'd slightly disagree. Portability is key for me too ... but a few things limit my enthusiasm. Walking round with a massive warhead being the first .. my aim is a single s4 pac per visit I carry 2 spares in a thermal box ... just in case. Massive powerbanks make big bangs!!! More importantly, it's all about redundancy. If you put all your eggs in 1 basket you end up losing when you need it most. I carry a ts80 a couple of batteries and a gas iron for bigger stuff. The gas is the lighter than any of the other components - so easy to include. Its also about thermal mass - the TS irons are both pretty punchy but you can't expect them to defy physics - they do have limits that "just a few more volts" won't compensate. As someone said - the engines won't take it. However red the tip goes, sometimes that teeny weeny end can't deliver, you just need a bigger fire.

I was reading reviews on the latest batch of phones and a big chunk of them are qc4 so there will be a shedload of support now that "ordinary people" will be wanting to fill their drawers -

RIP qc3 can't say I'll miss you.

[joric]

@clowrey does it also support QC chargers? Just wondering. PD is pretty complicated maybe this controller supports QC protocol too? Just in case, as on mobile phones.

[clowrey]

I really hope QC4 dies as well and we can have one standard to rule them all that being USB C PD - it makes sense.

The ZMI USB C PD Powerbank QB820 does 20V at 2A 20,000mAh at 3.6V or 72Wh and weights 405g - it can charge my laptop, cell phone, or soldering iron and I already carry it in my backpack everywhere.

If you need redundancy on a power source bring along your USB C PD AC wall power supply which is also in my backpack - I really like the Cable Matters 72W 4-Port USB C Power supply with 1 USB C PD and 3x USB A power supply - own 6 of them one in every location I might connect a laptop or cell phone.

[clowrey]

@clowrey does it also support QC chargers? Just wondering. PD is pretty complicated maybe this controller supports QC protocol too? Just in case, as on mobile phones.

I doubt it supports QC protocol... Buy USB C PD power supplies ;)

[whitehoose]

If you need redundancy on a power source bring along your USB C PD AC wall power supply which is also in my backpack.

If I had access to mains I wouldn't be messing round with batteries or powerbanks at all!!!! Always look for the least tec answer - it's usually the most reliable. Unfortunately my needs changed and the easiest fix was the TS80 ... I've just about made my peace with that decision but one of these days we'll pay for the over engineered, indulgent, tech for tech's sake situation it's created.

By the way @c .... re Qualcomm's QC4

This latest generation brings a number of improvements, but perhaps the most remarkable change is that Quick Charge 4 is now compatible with the USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery (USB-PD) specifications set by the USB-IF standards body.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10846/qualcomm-announces-quick-charge-4

[Roet-Ivar]

Hi guys. Really interesting stuff in here!

One thing I can't really understand with the ZY12PDS, my charger has PD has for all voltages (5v/9v/12v/15v/20v), does this mean I can't use utilize 5v by bridging this chip (i.e always getting 12v)?

I was hoping to make myself a couple of cables with dedicated ZY12PDS chips for all these voltages so I can charge a phone, power my ts100 or a raspberry pi for instance. Thanks!

[whitehoose]

@Roet-Ivar As any voltages other than 5v are negotiated, seems logical that whatever the negotiation protocols/voltages the device uses/delivers, the default power on will be always be @5v Unless you include a dedicated boost to 5v<. It's always going to end in tears for low voltages if you overvolt a plug which as a set voltage as is the case with USB's current default of 5v. Where 5v is critical and If you have doubts about supply stability, I'd incorporate one of the many tiny 1-2a buck converters which usually have a wide input range in a dedicated 5v lead. Cost pennies - could save embarrassment.

[joric]

Got ZYPDS today from ebay here https://www.ebay.com/itm/233102637939 ($3.67, free shipping). Stable 20V from laptop PD charger, but only 5V from QC charger. DISAPPONTED! But it's okay. TS100 definitely wins over TS80 now, because I'd sure mostly carry PD charger (for the laptop), not QC.

[aotd1]

There is a simple way to make USB type-c to DC jack cable: 1) Take something like this. It already has PD trap for 20v in the USB connector 2) Cut MagSafe and solder 5.5*2.5mm DC Power Male Plug Jack 3) ... 4) Profit

Would be great if someone finds same as (1) cable without MagSafe, or type-c connector bundled with ZY12PDS

[bl4k1st]

@aotd1 Thank you, do all cable cords have a PD trap? Could I simply buy one from amazon and have a cable with PD trap, if not, how do I recognize one?

[aotd1]

@bl4k1st no, I choose this one with MagSafe connector because it has 2 hacks internally: 1) PD chip telling the charger that something wants raw 20V on one side 2) The chip that telling the MacBook is connected to original old MagSafe charger on another side

I think type-c connector bundled with ZY12PDS is a very specific thing and it's a problem to find it (I simply can't find correct keywords for search =)

Other guys get raw ZY12PDS and add the plug jack to it: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3384396

[joric]

@aotd1 probably because it's no ZY12PDS it's just ZYPDS.

[aotd1]

Finally, I found it Not tested, but looks like it is what we need

[bl4k1st]

Just to report: I am now using a (Aukey) Power Bank, putting out 18W on USB-A port, a Power-Z QuickCharge injector and a USB- round connector cable. It allows the TS100 to solder at about 14W portable. Using only QC2, because it ramps up stepwise quickly, QC3 is ramping continuously and takes way longer to ramp to 12V

The Power-Z injector was expensive though :(

[samster395]

I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/

Your website isnt working, would love some more info on this.

[clowrey]

I have modified one ;) https://hilo90mhz.com/ts-100-usb-c-pd-mod-20v-via-internal-adapter/ ![IMG_20190515_215657](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/6935928/57839116- Your website isnt working, would love some more info on this.

You're right.. I have to rebuild the server that website was hosted on.. Still have all the content but haven't found the time to fix it yet.. Here are the pictures which comprised the bulk of the content on that page.

[majuss]

I love the infos on this thread, however I lost the overview :D I want to connect my TS80 to any USB-C PD enabled charger (laptop etc.). So what kind of adapter do I need to get the 20 V USB-C to 20 9/12 V QC3?

So interesting stuff, if I use a C-C cable on my Mac and the TS80 it doesn't work, but a A-C cable with a small A-C Adapter works fine but very slow (guess it's limited to 15 W USB 3.0).

Can anybody clear things up and help me get the most out of the TS80?

[whitehoose]

majuss

Depends just how you'd define "most"; most years, most good joints or most faults. Ok I went for ralim's firmware and I bought a TS80 package which included a PSU. The PSU is a stock qc3 unit that delivers 9v in "overdrive" and 5v most certainly isn't enough on it's own (my first reason for coming here was stock FW gave an error on 5v - Ralim's did eventually get to the melting lead point, but slooowly. As far as I'm aware 5-9v is the design spec for the 80 - with every qc3 adapter I've tried, it negotiates 9v no more (despite qc3 being capable of more with the right devices). It does everything I want within that range including big (enough for me) groundplanes and 4mm thick bus and power leads. I have different kit for handling bigger. Any more than that, I honestly can't see that given the quite modest thermal mass of the tips that despite the quite astonishing capabilities of the iron which seems to keep up (or beat) the ts100 in most things - you're not going to get quality results just by overheating the tip - soldering is a chemical reaction that only works well with a heat transfer and cooling curve that's quite clearly defined. You're likely to only get a pile of scrap by forcing the 80 to swallow 20v.

Your iron - your decision - but if you bought the kit to actually solder things - and those things are girders - you bought the wrong one, if not - mine works well within the limits. I don't see the point in killing the iron I'm pretty certain that it's been said that the tips are all specced at >450c and that the chips are for 12v max (although mine has never asked that from any power source I own.

I get the over clocking thing with PCs, but that's an accepted "sport" where the machines aren't really expected to work correctly in real life. Same with the HiFi guys and petrol heads. Their "best" is something else. But solder gets brittle if overheated and won't fuse if under cooked - so there isn't much point unless you just want 0-450c in as short a time as possible (and it seems neither temp control nor time management is accurate enough in the hardware to verify either).

[majuss]

Yep sorry I ment 9/12 V QC 3.0 :)

So is there some kind of QC 3.0 Adapter with male C and female C?

Ralim mentioned something in august 2018: "Though, a really nice product if your up for it, that is on my to-build list but buried too far deep would be to make a small USB-c inline adapater that converts between USB-PD and Quick Charge 3.0." This is exactly what I'am looking for and I wonder if something is out there already. If not I may produce it in the next months.

[whitehoose]

USB4 combines pd and qc compatibility. Once the phone bunnys start using it the adaptors and other gadgets will be everywhere. Problem at the moment is qc3 doesn't seem to support qc3 even from the same manufacturer let alone including PD. QC3 is good to 3A while PD is good to 12v bjt vs mosfet - I can't see an adapter being a practical option while they can't come up with a consistent qc format

[majuss]

So after like 2 hours of plugging the TS80 into various devices I have lying around I can confirm something pretty interesting. These cables by the company Rampow have a QC3 Adapter built in, which means with the help of this cable I can plug the TS80 into virtually ANY USB-power source (every Powerbank works, MacBook Pro 2017, MacBook Pro 2010 with USB 2.0, MacBook Pro USB-C charger...) even my Mi 8 worked as a power source and it always drew 9 V and warmed up at a normal speed. A similiar C-C cable should also work fine.

I don't know if anybody said something about these cables already, so here are my infos.

[whitehoose]

Yours has the advantage of being made for the job AND being red. There are a couple of other options - not really straight alternatives AOKoda Lipo to USB Power Converter QC3.0 Adapter Quick Charger (Phone or Tablet) or ISDT BattGo BG-8S Smart Battery Checker Balancer Receiver Signal Tester Quick Charge Function both need 7-27v so are better suited to lipo 4s or above which gives you a quite robust power source although you might get away with some USB2 units.

The other other alternative is a <2A buck boost converter mine is a 3a / 3.2-28v -> 2-26v and while it will work from some USB2 powerbanks - on some cheaper banks either the 3.8-5v boost or the protection tends to pulse the supply on and off making it unusable - the answer there is to tap directly onto the cells(s) and insert one of the many stand alone 18650 protection boards which don't seem to interfere.

The downside with that is the double conversion from 3.8v ->5v ->qc3 ->9v rapidly further diminishes the already short battery life - even a mediocre 4s lipo will give you a good hours soldering. but in an emergency ...

[polarathene]

These cables by the company Rampow have a QC3 Adapter built in, which means with the help of this cable I can plug the TS80 into virtually ANY USB-power source (every Powerbank works, MacBook Pro 2017, MacBook Pro 2010 with USB 2.0, MacBook Pro USB-C charger...) even my Mi 8 worked as a power source and it always drew 9 V and warmed up at a normal speed.

@majuss That Rampow cable is USB 3.1-gen1 3A Type-C. Max power QC3.0 permits is 18W (12V@1.5A, other voltages can use different amperage, but max is 18W over the wire). Whatever is used as power source needs to support QC, else you'll get typically 5V@1.5A afaik(Maybe 3A or as low as 500/900mA depending on source). Nothing about the USB-C cable itself afaik really matters about supporting QC3.0, that's up to the power source and device, the Rampow cable page didn't seem to mention anything that indicated they had some chipset internally to force pull a certain current(which'd be undesirable in most cases).

What I did notice is their marketing images in the gallery show the wire breakdown and specify the gauge sizes of the wires as 24/32AWG, 32 would be for data which usually is 28AWG, no clue if that causes lower transfer performance(not that it matters here since it's all about power). 24AWG should be able to handle 2A fine apparently.

A similiar C-C cable should also work fine.

That is a basic USB-C cable, only handles USB 2.0 data and 3 amps(good for up to 60W with USB-PD iirc, need 5A cable for more). The product page oddly states 28W is the max the cable supports, while quoting some QC 3.0 voltages/amp combinations that equate to 18W(not a typo exactly as it also went into their marketing images).

Just thought I'd clarify this stuff for anyone following along. A lot of discussion on voltage here or amps separately, but they are both important for the amount of watts to be drawn. As are the cables, note some power banks also cap the output regardless of capability with voltage or amp output, my xiaomi mi powerbank for example will only permit 15W, so achieving 18W via QC is not possible there.

For those looking into cables that boost 5V, you'll take an efficiency loss(usually around 20%) from the final output current, and keep in mind that the amperage will decline as you increase the voltage in addition to that. Some of these products also restrict the amperage because of heat dissipation (another reason that AWG of the wires is important if you want to push more amps through without risk of melting the cable insulation and causing a fire, afaik 18-20AWG will handle 5A ok).

The Power-Z injector was expensive though

@bl4k1st , it also appears to be out of stock? Did you see it available somewhere?

Finally, I found it. Not tested, but looks like it is what we need.

@aotd1 Did you get to try it? Thanks for the link, that product sounds/looks very useful! I'll share the link again without the url shortener:

USB-C PD 2.0/3.0 to DC 5525/5521 barrel adapter cable - 15V/20V - $5USD. I'm a bit surprised that it doesn't have any notable change in size, it would be good to hear how well it works.

I had come across these which cost more and handle the USB-PD at fixed voltage with a ZY12PDS, which someone mentioned earlier I think. So if someone wanted a product with that already setup with the cabling, it seems that'd be it, but the product @aotd1 mentioned earlier seems better if it works(I've not tried either personally but would be happy to know if someone has).

[majuss]

So the Iron shows 8.4 V when I plug the cable into a MacBook Pro 2010 with a USB2 port and warm up speed is fine. How do you explain this behavior? Other A-C cables don't work on any non QC3 power sources, but this cable works with EVERY USB power source. What other explenation is there if not a built in adapter.

[whitehoose]

A frightening number of people seems not to appreciate that these things aren't made by harry potter - they follow electrical principles which are either cast in stone - or limited by design, If you buy a gadget made for charging a device battery. Within the laws of physics there is plenty of wriggle room. Especially when they are made for a non tech audience who think it's all magic anyway. They are easily identified, they usually start any plea for advice by assuring everyone they are computer phobic, but like Beyoncé they own the latest iPhone (lolz!).

QC3 devices handle the business of fulfilling appropriate voltages as negotiated by the DEVICE in question. Just because a cable conforms to QCanything doesn't necessarily mean that it fulfils EVERY aspect of the standard and indiscriminately pumps out 12v@3A.... a microscopically small controller built into a pocket sized device physically can't dissipate 1KW of energy - so by design it will deliver (say) 9v but limited to (say again) 500ma - never the 12v @ 3A the spec makes provision for. Copper is quite expensive so on a £2 lead you are either going to get aluminium conductors or very thin poor quality copper. that may have the dimensions of 24awg but will have the resistance of stone.

My wife just bought a supermarket USB lead having run out of fleabay supplies. It's surprisingly good quality with a resistance 1/4 that of the fleabay and now performance means my wife's phone charges in 3 hours rather than 8.

If you possess basic electrical knowledge and can find a tech spec for the device you are interested in - it's very easy to explain why ... in this case - a charging lead that probably charges a device in twice the time the "official" kit does it also performs better than a sub-standard USB2 lead. Remember because it speaks qc3 it's still a win as a charger and delivers a little more oomph. However - when you ask the cable to deliver an army of pixies able to melt enough lead to cover a football pitch - it's not going to happen.

Anything that will fit inside a USB plug simply won't be able to handle the number of pixies you'd need to do serious work Fine for a 9v trickle charge that by the time it's struggled down a high resistance conductor arrives panting at only 8.4v but it will keep your phone online when plugged in to a single cell usb2 powerbank containing a 650mAh cell. Physics however will stop that setup delivering your request for 12v@3A

[JennyEverywhere]

I got a gadget on Tindie called the PD Buddy Sink that's a wonderful gadget. It negotiates with Power Delivery USB devices (Not QC) for voltage, current, or power, or ranges thereof, to help work around the inadequacies of the power device to negotiate the specific values you want. It's programmable through a TTY connection. It's about an inch square, and you can get it with bare solder pads or with screw terminals for output. I found 3d printed cases on Thingiverse that lets you use wire leads to the board, or put Andersen Power Pole connectors in the case.

I didn't get the things for my TS-100, though, I got it to power low-power ham radio transceivers from a PD USB-C battery bank or a GaN USB-C charger. Works like a total CHAMP. I can reliably get 12v at 2 to 3 amps, depending on the power supply -- 2A from a Ravpower 26800mAh PD bank, 3A from a Nekteck 45W GaN PD AC charger. The current is clean, no nasty RF birdies anywhere that interferes with my gear, and it reduces the weight of portable gear I carry and lets me substitute any unitasker power sources for multitaskers. The PD bank I now use can charge my Chromebook, my phone, or run a ham radio transmitting at 5 watts. I like it.

https://www.tindie.com/products/clarahobbs/pd-buddy-sink/

---Gwen

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 3:06 PM whitehoose notifications@github.com wrote:

A frightening number of people seems not to appreciate that these things aren't made by harry potter - they follow electrical principles which are either cast in stone - or limited by design, If you buy a gadget made for charging a device battery. Within the laws of physics there is plenty of wriggle room. Especially when they are made for a non tech audience who think it's all magic anyway. They are easily identified, they usually start any plea for advice by assuring everyone they are computer phobic, but like Beyoncé they own the latest iPhone (lolz!).

QC3 devices handle the business of fulfilling appropriate voltages as negotiated by the DEVICE in question. Just because a cable conforms to QCanything doesn't necessarily mean that it fulfils EVERY aspect of the standard and indiscriminately pumps out 12v@3A.... a microscopically small controller built into a pocket sized device physically can't dissipate 1KW of energy - so by design it will deliver (say) 9v but limited to (say again) 500ma - never the 12v @ 3A the spec makes provision for. Copper is quite expensive so on a £2 lead you are either going to get aluminium conductors or very thin poor quality copper. that may have the dimensions of 24awg but will have the resistance of stone.

My wife just bought a supermarket USB lead having run out of fleabay supplies. It's surprisingly good quality with a resistance 1/4 that of the fleabay and now performance means my wife's phone charges in 3 hours rather than 8.

If you possess basic electrical knowledge and can find a tech spec for the device you are interested in - it's very easy to explain why ... in this case - a charging lead that probably charges a device in twice the time the "official" kit does it also performs better than a sub-standard USB2 lead. Remember because it speaks qc3 it's still a win as a charger and delivers a little more oomph. However - when you ask the cable to deliver an army of pixies able to melt enough lead to cover a football pitch - it's not going to happen.

Anything that will fit inside a USB plug simply won't be able to handle the number of pixies you'd need to do serious work Fine for a 9v trickle charge that by the time it's struggled down a high resistance conductor arrives panting at only 8.4v but it will keep your phone online when plugged in to a single cell usb2 powerbank containing a 650mAh cell. Physics however will stop that setup delivering your request for 12v@3A

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Ralim/ts100/issues/24?email_source=notifications&email_token=AENBU7PTGHA5ZOHHUQ53RILQI2NC3A5CNFSM4DS55KR2YY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOD6IWIVY#issuecomment-529622103, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AENBU7IIOXGPPIKPRFPDP43QI2NC3ANCNFSM4DS55KRQ .

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[whitehoose]

So Jenny have you tried putting your wonderful gizmo to actual work? Looking at the proportions I'd guess about 11/2"x2" (40x50mm) ( plug it into any USB PD power supply with a high enough power capability. It negotiates with the power supply and turns on its output, giving your project up to 3 A at 5, 9, or 15 V, and up to 5 A at 20 V). I'm persuaded it maybe COULD deliver ... if only it could talk to the Iron .. the TS80 is QC3 only - so a non starter - have you found the magic word to get yours talking to your ts100? There's lots of talk about VOLTS - but no mention in the blurb of them big strong AMP pixies. What sort of power output do you actually use in a sustained session? Normally I'd consider getting one to see - but at $30 per unit and postage to UK of $66 my laughter turned to hysteria before I could apply for a loan.

I got my ts80 as a hopeful tongue in cheek gadget. I really wanted it to work - but QC3 just seems determined to make things as awkward as possible That's why I ended up here - USB2 sort of works with ralim's firmware - it's a long walk - but it gets there eventually.

The stock PSU and cable does a passable job and at home within it's class it's a capable gadget that I can use for it's intended purpose. Take it out on a field trip - and it becomes a total agoraphobic mess! I'm interested to know if any of the people proposing PD have actually got past the theory stage and are melting lead?

I've tried different batteries and powerbanks, I've been playing round with buck boost converters and just when you think we're off - QC3 slaps you round the head. At the mo my best efforts is a s4 lipo feeding an AOKoda qc3 controller. A little "lumpy" but it delivers a decent power to weight tradeoff and actually melts lead in a respectable way - if I get desperate I can plug a buck boost into my USB 5 PB to give 14v ish to again feed the AOKoda qc3 controller. It's a time limited option - but does work in a flap.

My last option is to use my MI pro qc3 powerbank which does the job ... but not for long My old lead acid powered all my needs all day.

[JennyEverywhere]

No, I don't use it for soldering. But someone might find a way to use it for that.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 5:12 PM whitehoose notifications@github.com wrote:

So Jenny have you tried putting your wonderful gizmo to actual work? Looking at the proportions I'd guess about 11/2"x2" (40x50mm) ( plug it into any USB PD power supply with a high enough power capability. It negotiates with the power supply and turns on its output, giving your project up to 3 A at 5, 9, or 15 V, and up to 5 A at 20 V). I'm persuaded it maybe COULD deliver ... if only it could talk to the Iron .. the TS80 is QC3 only - so a non starter - have you found the magic word to get yours talking to your ts100? There's lots of talk about VOLTS - but no mention in the blurb of them big strong AMP pixies. What sort of power output do you actually use in a sustained session? Normally I'd consider getting one to see - but at $30 per unit and postage to UK of $66 my laughter turned to hysteria before I could apply for a loan.

I got my ts80 as a hopeful tongue in cheek gadget. I really wanted it to work - but QC3 just seems determined to make things as awkward as possible That's why I ended up here - USB2 sort of works with ralim's firmware - it's a long walk - but it gets there eventually.

The stock PSU and cable does a passable job and at home within it's class it's a capable gadget that I can use for it's intended purpose. Take it out on a field trip - and it becomes a total agoraphobic mess! I'm interested to know if any of the people proposing PD have actually got past the theory stage and are melting lead?

I've tried different batteries and powerbanks, I've been playing round with buck boost converters and just when you think we're off - QC3 slaps you round the head. At the mo my best efforts is a s4 lipo feeding an AOKoda qc3 controller. A little "lumpy" but it delivers a decent power to weight tradeoff and actually melts lead in a respectable way - if I get desperate I can plug a buck boost into my USB 5 PB to give 14v ish to again feed the AOKoda qc3 controller. It's a time limited option - but does work in a flap.

My last option is to use my MI pro qc3 powerbank which does the job ... but not for long My old lead acid powered all my needs all day.

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[polarathene]

So the Iron shows 8.4 V when I plug the cable into a MacBook Pro 2010 with a USB2 port and warm up speed is fine. How do you explain this behavior?

@majuss No clue, the TS80 is QC3 capable, but the power source should also be QC3 capable, otherwise it's kind of dangerous to pull voltage higher than supported afaik. A-C cables themselves are actually against USB specifications. A USB 2 Type-A port should only support 5V and up to 1.5A.

If the cable is going to behave in such a dangerous way, it should be stated so on the product page. Have you actually measured the voltage/amps, or are you just going by what the iron claims on the display?

Physics however will stop that setup delivering your request for 12v@3A

@whitehoose your ramblings are a bit hard to follow sorry. My response earlier should have laid out some clear information about the concerns you talk about. If you have the appropriate cable along with compatible power source and device on each end, then 12V/3A can be negotiated no problem.

I'm not sure if 24AWG handles constant 3A well, but afaik 22AWG should? Actual wattage delivered from one end to the other will depend on voltage drop. The longer the cable, the more resistance(AWG wire size applies here too) which equates to a loss of voltage, decreasing the wattage on arrival to the device(like the 8.4V mentioned here).

If a voltage booster is used(rather than fast charge protocol), then as mentioned amperage will take a loss here(not only in the adjustment to the higher voltage, but in the loss of efficiency in doing so, via heat dissipation as you mention). So again, final wattage at the device takes a dive in amps as well as voltage, providing even less power.

Regarding the PD BuddySink, you seem to have misunderstood the product. The USB-C port is for input power from a power source, the board itself is negotiating the fixed power requirement you have with all the joys USB-PD 3.0 offers regarding that.

The output you can then connect the wires to a connector of your choice to route the power to a device, such as DC5525 for TS100 or I guess another USB-C cable/connector for TS80. Jenny doesn't use it with a TS80, and I myself am not sure if the TS80 would respond well to that, it might not be a suitable product for the TS80.

Just supply a QC compatible power source or some adapter(if one exists for the power source).

Regarding amps, that's really up to how you approach it. You need a power source that can output the amount of amps at the voltage you want, as well as a cable that can support it. The device itself will likely take whatever voltage(if accepting a variable voltage), and convert to the voltage the circuit wants to work with(possible efficiency loss), amps available will adjust accordingly with that, but the circuit will only draw as many amps as it requires(I don't know how the TS80/TS100 work in this regard as I don't use the products, I assume software/interface allows you to increase that demand or it draws a constant amperage at whatever voltage it receives?). Usually the amount of amps you're sending over the wire won't be all that high, 3-5A at highest for USB-C, voltage is a bigger player here(speed effectively), with the combination of the two giving a wattage output that is more meaningful as whole.

The TS100 at least takes 12-24VDC, the table I saw shows 12V/17W(~1.42A) with 40s to heat 30c to 300c, while 24V/65W(~2.7A) manages it in 11s.

[whitehoose]

polythene Thanks for clearing that up, I hadn't realised the ts80 would adjust the voltages automatically to give the full 5 amp. Thanks for making the situation clear.

[JennyEverywhere]

The Buddy Sink will give full PD power if the supply device negotiates output according to spec. Many devices, most notably QC/PD devices that try to do both, and fail to give proper support to either.

I don't think you were saying that I don't understand what the Buddy Sink does. I do. I don't use it for a TS-80 because I don't own one, I own a TS-100. Since the TS-100 has a coaxial socket, the cable I made for my radios should fit, I'd just need to reprogram it for maximum voltage and amperage, and use a PD source that can deliver it. The RAVpower bank I have can deliver 20v, but I think amperage is lower than 5A. I could power the TS-100, though, and probably as well as the laptop supply I use now.

Since this was originally a list for the TS-100, that's why I subscribed. I have no need for a TS-80 at this time, and wouldn't want to have to re-buy all of the tips I have to sweet one up comparably.

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 5:11 AM whitehoose notifications@github.com wrote:

polythene Thanks for clearing that up, I hadn't realised the ts80 would adjust the voltages automatically to give the full 5 amp. Thanks for making the situation clear.

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[majuss]

@polarathene

I'am just trusting the iron on the voltage measurement. What's the easiest way to measure it?