Quotation marks position

[vv-monsalve]

The quotation marks position is working with Uppercase and ascender height. However, when used with lowercase letters they look shifted up. Should we find a compromise in the position by making it a bit lower?

E.g. France Traditional

[josescaglione]

Hi @vv-monsalve , how many UPM would you shift them? Please be aware that we cannot have localised punctuation so any changes in the tall masters will have an impact in a lot of the models. Am I right to asume that this also impact on quotesingle quotedbl quoteleft quoteright? What about asterisk ?

The French fonts have no curly double quotes but just straight ones. See the capture here.

[josescaglione]

sorry, I forgot to add my opinion for what is worth... I think the vertical position and size of these signs in Playwrite are correct. Shifting the quotes down will make it look odd when used with caps or ascenders.

[vv-monsalve]

Based on our review today, the following is a list of comments and suggestions for your consideration.

Single quotation mark or apostrophe used in common contractions for languages like English or French

• They look shifted way above, making their role hard to see or understand.
  • They seem oddly short for this set of proportions but also just in general terms.
  • The position of these glyphs would be a bigger concern since their recurrence is even higher in the kinds of short text than quotes, in general, and probably within the educational context of these handwriting models.

Alternatives of solution:

• Making them longer and dropping them down. Making it as high as possible without it feeling strained in “it’s”.
• Making the rest match, seeing if that’s tolerable for quotes. Better to get the majority case right.
• Localizing the position for the models with long ascenders.

[josescaglione]

Thanks for your comments @vv-monsalve , we will make them longer and shift them down.

[josescaglione]

@vv-monsalve this is 60UPM longer, minus 200 vertical shift. Please let me know if it is ok and we can repeat in other masters

[vv-monsalve]

After a pair review, this looks better now. There is the added recommendation on kerning to t' and ,' pairs

[josescaglione]

Cool, I passed on the kerning comment to Vik. She generally thinks we should maintain it fairly open and prefers not to touch these pairs. But she will nevertheless review

[vv-monsalve]

I was adding more info but didn't make to publish them before your last comment:

Some added comments suggest to:

• Test them being even bigger (keep the bottom where it is now, but extend the top all the way to the ascender, and test from there)
• The marks feel a bit heavy now.
• The marks height and position should be reviewed both in the "short" and "long" masters.

[josescaglione]

I will make some tests and we can go over them in the next meeting. I must say I did try to make them longer suring last revision and starts looking really bad. Will check again though.

[josescaglione]

FYI, I changed the thin masters to make comma and all quotes a bit longer and lighter as requested. Also changed the Regular masters for the comma and baseline quotes. Reaching the cap height with quotes is not working as we have a difference os 200 UPM. This should be visible in the next commit.

[davelab6]

Localizing the position for the models with long ascenders.

I think this, done as case feature, would be ideal - but not for this v1 release, and likely as part of a future round of careful Primarium research that specifically investigates quote marks and other punctuation

[josescaglione]

Thanks @davelab6 . Agreed

[vv-monsalve]

I think this, done as case feature, would be ideal - but not for this v1 release

Excellent!

This should be visible in the next commit.

@josescaglione please ping me when you push the latest files into the lang-build branch, so we can find the v1 release shape definition.

[vv-monsalve]

This is the position of the current quotes in the France Traditional (one of the highest ascenders) in the lang-build branch at commit 658f99f

They look good for the v1 release. @davelab6

[casasin]

@vv-monsalve : Is this issue ready to be closed then?

[vv-monsalve]

Fonts in lang-build branch at commit cc1f569 look good for v1 release. There are some kerning cases, but I'll report them in the related issue.