[TF2] Players can bypass equip region restrictions using the +quickswitch command.

[gurfan]

The quickswitch menu does not check for equip region conflicts on some cosmetics. Using the quickswitch menu allows players to equip cosmetics that would normally conflict. This happens with cosmetics with the whole_head equip region.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Open the quickswitch menu using +quickswitch
2. Equip a whole_head cosmetic that would normally conflict.

[concernedtradermain]

Leave quickswitchable miscs alone..

[thejaviertc]

Yes, this bug exists, I have just found this one in a MvM match:

It's using 2 full-head cosmetics at the same time.

[jh34ghu43gu]

Proposed fix: remove conflict between whole head and hats (cant remember actual region name if that's not correct) in schema.

[Kibbleknight]

Instead of fixing this bug, equip region restrictions should be loosened further to be less draconian. There are a few perfectly fine item combinations in the game that don't work together for literally zero reason other than region conflicts.

[Aggr0n]

Removing this undocumented feature will negatively affect in-game economy. Please fix it :+1:

[UprankPrankup]

fucking snitch

[AzureWoof]

Yes, this bug exists, I have just found this one in a MvM match: It's using 2 full-head cosmetics at the same time.

This isn't very well known about. What you probably ended up taking a picture of is a cheater who disabled equip regions on their client, which is way more common.

[Archetexture]

There is no reason for this to be fixed, and this would ruin a huge part of tf2's economy. The only people that have a problem with quickswitch miscs are either too poor to afford good hats in general or so obscenely rich that they can buy all-class ones. This "feature" literally has no impact on the game, and I personally believe the criteria for what makes a "misc" a "misc" should be a lot more relaxed. There are tons of hats for Engineer that clip a lot less than the Brainiac Hairpiece, yet they're still considered hats. (i.e. Professor's Peculiarity, Peacenik's Ponytail, Big Country, etc.)

[Archetexture]

Okay, Gurfan, how is this okay --

But this isn't?

[AzureWoof]

I personally think that equip region restrictions should be way more relaxed. There's a ton of cosmetic combinations that don't clip with one another, yet are restricted due to equip regions being too strict.

[gurfan]

@Archetexture None of those cosmetics use the whole_head equip region and they should not be affected by this fix. Feel free to submit a new issue addressing the images you have just posted. Thanks!

[Archetexture]

@gurfan I am also making a point that doing this would NEGATIVELY impact the in-game economy. AFAIK, updates to equip regions have only made specific cosmetics go up in price, not down. This would cause a huge crash, and that should be taken into account when considering a "fix" of this magnitude.

[MicRouSN7]

I completely agree with Archetexture here. Valve hired these people to fix bugs that are negatively affecting the game. But I'm sure Valve would prefer to keep making as much money as possible with these bug fixes as that's kinda the whole point in hiring them - making sure people keep playing the game and enjoying it. Removing what is basically a feature at this point that gives certain cosmetics more value would definitely do more harm than good to Valve and the game, especially since nobody is negatively effected by this bug remaining. If anything, I think jh34ghu43gu is on the right track with removing the conflict outright or reducing restrictions outright.

[concernedtradermain]

Great work everyone! The for-hire programmers tasked with fixing some of the bugs and exploits reported here will end up confused by the discourse in this thread and leave quickswitchable miscs alone as they do not want to deal with opening Pandora's Box.

[Archetexture]

@TF2CutContentWiki That's what someone who has nothing invested in the market would say. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it wouldn't affect thousands of others. Quit being selfish, and look at it from someone else's perspective. Yeah, I happen to have an expensive quickswitch item, but bias aside, this would be incredibly stupid. No amount of issue reports will make you right about this. This oversight hurts nobody, and it does not affect gameplay in the slightest. Reverting it will only cause backlash. These contractors were hired to get rid of bugs that were either "quality of life" improvements or serious, game-breaking issues.

[jh34ghu43gu]

this is a bug and as such should be fixed.

IMO not a good reason on its own, especially in a game like tf2 where bugs created many staples of the game.

[Archetexture]

Also, THIS is the reason why giving tf2 to the community is a horrible idea. The community admins would not be fair, and would only make decisions on their own beliefs, not the overall community's. Valve may be incompetent, but they really try to levy their decisions based on community reactions to changes they make. People like you only seem to care about themselves.

[rabscootle]

I don't see the problem here aside from some users deciding that the valuation of some items should be dependent on what's clearly a bug. Ideally this should be fixed like any other issue on this board, just like the Iron Bomber's projectile size.

[jh34ghu43gu]

I don't see the problem here aside from some users deciding that the valuation of some items should be dependent on what's clearly a bug.

I think fixing this now after its had years to become an ingrained feature within the trading community would imply all the other weird glitched items are no longer "off limits" of being reverted to their "proper" state. No this isn't a 100% fair comparison, but neither is the iron bomber one you made because a projectile hitbox affects gameplay; clipping hats does not (any head-visibility affects would exist regardless of this bug existing because the whole head covers it regardless of what it's clipping with).

IMO this change only has negative consequences; on the trading scene by devaluing a subset of items, and additionally decreasing creative freedom when designing players' loadouts. If you are trying to "save the art style" by preventing clipping you should have made this issue back in 2013 because there really isn't an art style left to save. I've already said why I think "fixing bugs because they're a bug" is a dumb reason. I have yet to see a loadout that abuses this bug to created a harder to see player head/hitbox that a regular loadout wouldn't also create. My original reply was meant to be a joke before I left for work but after writing this out I actually think it'd probably be the only good "fix" for this since it wouldn't hide these cosmetic combos behind an arbitrary setup&command for the lay-player.

And before anyone calls me a QS shill I don't own any, or if I do it's unknowingly and I don't actively have them equipped because I use a real misc for my double unusual combos :sunglasses:

[Fonteu]

It should be fixed precisely because it hurts traders. Please get your money up and buy real miscs.

[Mikusch]

I don't really see what all this ruckus is about. A bug is a bug and should be fixed. If it was meant to be a feature, equip regions would not have been added to the game in the first place. You could make the argument that some equip regions are nonsensical but that is a completely separate issue.

Also, if you invest your money in a game with the only security being the existence of a bug and that bug ends up being fixed, that is really your own fault.

[matty4kek]

I don't really see what all this ruckus is about. A bug is a bug and should be fixed. If it was meant to be a feature, equip regions would not have been added to the game in the first place. You could make the argument that some equip regions are nonsensical but that is a completely separate issue.

Also, if you invest your money in a game with the only security being the existence of a bug and that bug ends up being fixed, that is really your own fault.

Well, to be fair, It took high end traders about a year to "inflate" the prices of the unusuals in question, so they don't want it to be fixed or they are losing money. I don't think you should take the "economy" into consideration, when it comes to actual bugs. As for someone who owns one of those unusual hats, I don't mind this being fixed, as It's an actual bug. In short, to all the people crying economy here, stop being greedy. This is a bug and It should be fixed.

[MicRouSN7]

@matty4kek I am not being greedy. I have no intention on selling the items I bought. I bought them to keep because I like the combinations I wear and want those to remain possible. Some of the combos I have just aren't possible with what's in the game. That being said, a big part of what's keeping this game alive is its very active trading community. It's also one of the biggest money makers for this game for valve. Those crates that collect dust in most people's inventories are being released for one major reason. The chance of an unusual being dropped. Same thing with old unusuals in circulation. Keys are constantly being bought to buy those desired expensive unusuals. At the end of the day, valve very much cares that the game stay profitable. Otherwise they wouldn't have fixed the Crate Depression issue and would've let old God tiers plummet in price. Either leave the bug be or remove the conflict from the items imo. There's more than one way to fix this issue and it could he as easy as "fix the glitch and make all whole heads miscs."

[Archetexture]

@matty4kek Let me guess, you're a "tax the rich" guy.

[Archetexture]

@Fonteu Demoman doesn't have a misc, and most good ones are locked in trader/collector backpacks.

[matty4kek]

@matty4kek Let me guess, you're a "tax the rich" guy.

Sorry, I don't understand what that means or has anything to do with TF2 or TF2 bug fixing/reporting.

[Archetexture]

@matty4kek For some reason, you want to punish people that are making more money than you. Gee, I wonder how that correlates to my previous comment.

[matty4kek]

@matty4kek For some reason, you want to punish people that are making more money than you. Gee, I wonder how that correlates to my previous comment.

Sorry, I'm just interested in bug reporting, If that in some way hurt your feelings, I did not mean to do that.

[Platina6978]

I agree with the sentiments of Rabscootle and Mikusch, bugs should be fixed. I do agree that there are many nonsensical equip region conflicts (both ways) that should be addressed indeed. But keeping a bug in because some people are hurt more by fixing it than others seems silly to me. Like Mikusch said, if you invest into items based on a bug, that's on you.

Also mind the rules guys, keep it simple and polite here. We are just here to objectively report on bugs and discuss them in a civilized manner if need-be, nothing more.

[Archetexture]

Except this "bug" has been in the game since 2013, and it only serves to hurt people that own these items. If this was something that was relatively recent, and it had no time to ingrain itself in the trading scene, I would feel differently, but for many years this was thought to be a feature that was left ignored for a reason. I never thought I would be defending profit traders, but here I am; I have found people that are even worse human beings.

[Archetexture]

@matty4kek Nice ulterior motives. It's pretty obvious that you don't care about bug reporting, because you just made a GitHub account to comment on this particular thread. If you're going to lie, at least make it more believable.

[matty4kek]

@matty4kek Nice ulterior motives. It's pretty obvious that you don't care about bug reporting, because you just made a GitHub account to comment on this particular thread. If you're going to lie, at least make it more believable.

I'm ending with this post, but I've been posting here since 2018 and I made my account at like 2017, you can just check my profile. Feel free to check my bug reports from 2018, Have a nice day.

[Archetexture]

@matty4kek >Hasn't posted about bugs in 4 years and thinks that supports his previous comment. What a clown.

[kisak-valve]

@Archetexture, that's enough, you're falling foul of Do not insult, harass, or demean anyone. (https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games#conduct) Continue to harass @matty4kek and there will be consequences.

[Archetexture]

I disagree with your notion that what I've said can be defined as "harassment."

[AzureWoof]

I agree with the sentiments of Rabscootle and Mikusch, bugs should be fixed. I do agree that there are many nonsensical equip region conflicts (both ways) that should be addressed indeed. But keeping a bug in because some people are hurt more by fixing it than others seems silly to me. Like Mikusch said, if you invest into items based on a bug, that's on you.

Also mind the rules guys, keep it simple and polite here. We are just here to objectively report on bugs and discuss them in a civilized manner if need-be, nothing more.

I agree with all of this. This should be fixed, but we should definitely look at finding a way to update equip regions for specific items in the future, as some of the restrictions make little to no sense. It'd be difficult, because there's so many cosmetics now in the game, so whatever changes need to be made may need to be with the equip region system itself. Perhaps more equip regions could be added to the game to help differentiate between what should and shouldn't conflict, as the quantity of cosmetics in the game today absolutely outweighs the original scope of that system.

[matty4kek]

Honestly, the game has a huge problem when it comes to equip-regions. There are way too many cosmetics in the game where their equip region just makes no sense, but I personally think with the help of the community, Valve could possibly push an update slowly updating the equip regions for the "problematic" cosmetics.

[CorvisCord]

Looks like the "ew you spend money on a video game" crowd has arrived. This bug is harmless, people who are against quick-switching are basically one of two people: Elitists who think quick-switches aren't real miscs and should be removed from their status as such, or people who just hate traders and want them to mald.

[DrCactusTF2]

Ultimately I think the best solution to this would be to fix the exploit while also updating the current equip region system allow for more freedom in cosmetic choices without breaking visual consistency.

Many of these combinations could work normally, and just dont because of the current limited set of equip regions. Adding some more regions might do a lot of benefit for players

[slender100]

Looks like the "ew you spend money on a video game" crowd has arrived. This bug is harmless, people who are against quick-switching are basically one of two people: Elitists who think quick-switches aren't real miscs and should be removed from their status as such, or people who just hate traders and want them to mald.

This bug could open up issues, such as making headshotting players more difficult. A bug is a bug, regardless of whether or not it is "harmless", and needs to be fixed.

[MicRouSN7]

Looks like the "ew you spend money on a video game" crowd has arrived. This bug is harmless, people who are against quick-switching are basically one of two people: Elitists who think quick-switches aren't real miscs and should be removed from their status as such, or people who just hate traders and want them to mald.

This bug could open up issues, such as making headshotting players more difficult. A bug is a bug, regardless of whether or not it is "harmless", and needs to be fixed.

If we're worried about making heads hots more difficult to hit (have yet to see one combo that makes a person's head unintelligible - quickswitching or otherwise), then we should probably remove some Halloween cosmetics as well and remove the incinerator pro ks effect while we're at it because once someone has 5-10 kills, their head becomes a glowing orb for anyone looking at them from a distance through a scope.

What I'm saying is there's more pressing causes of difficult-to-see headshots which have yet to be addressed while I have yet to see an example of your proposed possible issue.

[slender100]

Replying to https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4055#issuecomment-1186586255

to name a few

[MicRouSN7]

Replying to https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4055#issuecomment-1186589616

Absolutely none of those are caused by the whole head cosmetic. All of those are caused by an oddly shaped cosmetic that makes the head appear larger than it is. Good try tho.

[slender100]

Replying to https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4055#issuecomment-1186590173

ummm... yes they are. 1 whole head cosmetic along with anything else that can usually conflict.

[MicRouSN7]

Replying to https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/4055#issuecomment-1186590652

What I'm saying is that none of those obscure the head more. All of those obfuscations of where the head ends is actually caused by the other cosmetics you're comboing the whole head cosmetics with. Like the medic screenshot. What obscures where the head ends is not the whole head cosmetic, but is instead the other hat your putting it on top of. Whole head cosmetic or not, that head is still obscured.

[MicRouSN7]

In fact, those whole head cosmetics arguably make where the head is easier to read since they're closer to where the head actually ends. Specifically with your medic, soldier, and spy loadout choices.

[slender100]

In fact, those whole head cosmetics arguably make where the head is easier to read since they're closer to where the head actually ends. Specifically with your medic, soldier, and spy loadout choices.

This is entirely subjective, and ignoring the fact you can make the head even more obscured by an additional cosmetic that shouldn't be there. Again, these are just a few examples out of potentially many that can pose difficulty in trying to discern where the head actually is because of the bug.

[MicRouSN7]

In fact, those whole head cosmetics arguably make where the head is easier to read since they're closer to where the head actually ends. Specifically with your medic, soldier, and spy loadout choices.

This is entirely subjective, and ignoring the fact you can make the head even more obscured by an additional cosmetic that shouldn't be there. Again, these are just a few examples out of potentially many that can pose difficulty in trying to discern where the head actually is because of the bug.

Then why limit it to something caused by a bug? Let's get rid of ALL miscs and things that obscure the end of the head if it's such an important subject matter for you. No, that would be needlessly destructive and would be terrible for the economy. So why doesn't the same apply for this?

[MicRouSN7]

I've made my points and I'm done repeating the same arguments. Best of luck to the programmers, whatever they choose, as it seems this is quite the divisive issue. I just hope I can keep my favorite cosmetic combinations that don't even visibly clip.

[slender100]

Then why limit it to something caused by a bug? Let's get rid of ALL miscs and things that obscure the end of the head if it's such an important subject matter for you. No, that would be needlessly destructive and would be terrible for the economy. So why doesn't the same apply for this?

I actually agree with this, I would think getting rid of/restricting these miscs in some way would be beneficial, and make gameplay less confusing and more optimized for players. But that's just my two cents, this is for the developers to decide on.