Buff Horsemen

[CrowdfordBot]

!Phantomtomic: Having 4 people as solo isn’t a bad thing, but if the role requires 4 people to even be somewhat considered balanced, then I feel like a few small buffs could help the solo.

Currently horsemen feel incredibly fragile. It could use a bit more testing but its only wincon is to get to apocalypse, which is a pretty hard task to start with, and any horseman deaths can really affect the tempo of dooming and force them to win even later, where wolves or town could simply take the win before horsemen do. And when it doesn’t have its wincon, the most it can with its abilities is spam doom, and though HoD and sometimes HoF are pretty powerful, it’s not really too helpful for horses and the dooms are all they have.

Easier reuniting or buffing the doom mechanics could help horse. Buff suggestions (could be horrible): -Add a ununited horse to the horse channel every night starting from n2 -Some way to avoid night kills (?) -Some way to get extra dooms like reaper could (?) -Somewhat buffing the doom abilities (?) -Same horse types after transformation start off united (Or something like that?)

Correct me if I’m wrong on anything

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Ethan.: Horsemen by design are supposed to have more players

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Ethan.: They work perfectly fine as is

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!Phantomtomic: I don't really know, it could be that way but reuniting + dooming everyone feels pretty hard to accomplish with so much to worry about and starting off completely seperated

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huckhuck55: I agree with you phantom. There are a lot of things to have to do in order to win. And if you even lose 1 horse, the odds of winning drop quite a bit. And the larger the game gets the harder it is to doom everyone. Especially if death is killing the people they doom, you can only rely on the other 3 horses to make progress towards the apocalypse.

[CrowdfordBot]

huckhuck55: Maybe something like, if there is only 1 horseman left, the remaining one can doom 2 a night. It’s not a huge buff but would help.

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shapechange: the easiest way to buff them would be for them to win once everyone is doomed

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federick: I think they need a nerf is anything

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federick: Horseman of death dooming a player and the player not being able to retaliate by killing the HoD before dying is awful

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federick: If anything i think it'd make the game more interesting, because then you can also interrogate doomed players and they could be exposed from fakeclaiming etc

[CrowdfordBot]

!Phantomtomic: HoD is pretty powerful but even though the death helps keep horsemen somewhat stable and eliminate threats, its wincon is still just as hard to reach imo It’s already punished enough for being forced to delay 2 phases where a doom or attack on it could be completely wasted

[CrowdfordBot]

!Phantomtomic: If really needed HoD could get a nerf but the main problem imo is how slow/hard it is to win

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federick: yea wincon being everyone doomed could work

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huckhuck55: Have the horsies ever gotten to apoc?

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!Phantomtomic: Huck please the new horses are really new

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!Phantomtomic: But the answer is no, though the closest to winning horses got is s9g1b and even that’s because of a host mistake 💀

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huckhuck55: Just a question, seeing as it seems really hard to get to apoc, it was worth asking.

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huckhuck55: Like, I think it should be hard to get to apoc, but that said, it seems particularly tricky to get there seeing as doomed players can die (1 of which due to HoD) and you also have to find your other horses to coordinate.
Just a lot of things to get done in order to be successful.

Could maybe the horses start knowing 1 other horse? Idk, might make it a touch more achievable.

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!Phantomtomic: That’s already a suggestion

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!Phantomtomic: Removing apoc completely works but idk how this fares with horses still being separated and all that, since horses haven’t really gotten close to even apoc to start with

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huckhuck55: Would it be too strong to just have a apoc start in the game?

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!Phantomtomic: WHAT

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!Phantomtomic: ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY

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huckhuck55: The apocs mechanic is that they cant die during the night and they can attack . That doesn’t add too much. It’s basically just a wolf.

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!Phantomtomic: … 💀

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huckhuck55: Just saying, would be a buff that would at least give the horses some offence.

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!Phantomtomic: What’s the point of HoD then

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huckhuck55: So that other horses can become apoc.

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huckhuck55: Idk, just a thought, doesn’t have to be taken seriously.

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!Phantomtomic: …

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!Phantomtomic: We’re probably removing apoc to start with

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!Phantomtomic: That’s an okay buff

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!Phantomtomic: Doesn’t really help the fragility but at least makes winning easier

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huckhuck55: Could add the vulnerable status to an ability. (If a player gets visited, they die and it appears by checks that the visitor killed them)

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huckhuck55: Actually, nm. That doesn’t help anything, more offence, but doesn’t help dooming.

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!Phantomtomic: 💀

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!Phantomtomic: Not huck trying to add his own creations to balance roles

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huckhuck55: 😈

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shapechange:

Would it be too strong to just have a apoc start in the game?

yes. VERY much so.

[CrowdfordBot]

Ts: i really dont like removing apoc

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shapechange: me neither

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shapechange: i think if some people think horsemen are too strong, and some think they're too weak, it might just be a sign that we haven't tested them enough

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Ts: what could work is giving them the night kill immunity from the start or some other better defensive abilities

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Ts: its sort of both true

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Ts: in general they're too weak, but in a way HoD is too strong

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Ts: thats not mutually exclusive

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shapechange: doomed players can't kill them or smth

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shapechange:

thats not mutually exclusive

true

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Ts: i think the horsemen are better when they dont kill until apoc

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

doomed players can't kill them or smth

although this does later fuck up getting rid of apoc

[CrowdfordBot]

Ts: but then they're usually too weak I think