Delete or Rework Nightmare

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: nobody uses nightmare team (because it sucks) solution 1: make it not suck solution 2: make it not exist

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mctsts: yea

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e_thsn:

Active ability each night make x players sleepless

Passive ability If a sleepless player is attacked at night they will instead die at the end of the following day, the reaper will learn that player's current role, for that phase they can anonymously communicate with the reaper and request the reaper attack a player (end day), this request can be accepted or denied by the reaper

reaper wins when all alive players are unaligned, nightmare or sleepless

this gives reaper how many powers?

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: 2 or 3

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

Active ability each night make x players sleepless

Passive ability If a sleepless player is attacked at night they will instead die at the end of the following day, the reaper will learn that player's current role, for that phase they can anonymously communicate with the reaper and request the reaper attack a player (end day), this request can be accepted or denied by the reaper

reaper wins when all alive players are unaligned, nightmare or sleepless

<@458727748504911884> what do you think of this version?

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: it's definitely interesting

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shapechange: it doesn't seem overly town-sided as long as the reaper is sensible

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shapechange: it also makes it easier for chef to kill (in its current version: i think we should make chef an end night kill honestly)

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mctsts: oh I really like that suggestion

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mctsts: poison isnt always immediate

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federick:

Active ability each night make x players sleepless

Passive ability If a sleepless player is attacked at night they will instead die at the end of the following day, the reaper will learn that player's current role, for that phase they can anonymously communicate with the reaper and request the reaper attack a player (end day), this request can be accepted or denied by the reaper

reaper wins when all alive players are unaligned, nightmare or sleepless

This works, however I don't really like how rare it is for reaper to have that effect happen

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: we can make it have 1 sleepless for every 6 players rounded

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e_thsn: so normally it'd get 3-4

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e_thsn: or maybe 8 rounded

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federick: I'm not a fan of that system ngl

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federick: but it could work i guess

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e_thsn: it's just so we can have it be as balanced in small games as it is in big games

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shapechange: i think the only problem i see (which plays into the town-sidedness) is that it's much easier to figure out which town players are going to die than which wolf players, which makes it more rewarding to sleeplessify town players and thus reaper will have a choice probably between killing wolves and not killing

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

I'm not a fan of that system ngl

it's consistent with our current solos

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: and it makes balancing infinitely easier generally

[CrowdfordBot]

federick:

i think the only problem i see (which plays into the town-sidedness) is that it's much easier to figure out which town players are going to die than which wolf players, which makes it more rewarding to sleeplessify town players and thus reaper will have a choice probably between killing wolves and not killing

Yea that was kind of the issue I wanted to solve as well

[CrowdfordBot]

federick: By having the dead players in general rather than just targetted before-dying people

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shapechange: perhaps a secondary role with some sort of investigative power

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

i think the only problem i see (which plays into the town-sidedness) is that it's much easier to figure out which town players are going to die than which wolf players, which makes it more rewarding to sleeplessify town players and thus reaper will have a choice probably between killing wolves and not killing

oh true, it does rely on death at night and wolves tend to die during the day, unless we add it so lynches last the night phase but can't use their ability

[CrowdfordBot]

federick: You still need to wait for them to die tho

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

By having the dead players in general rather than just targetted before-dying people

i do still dislike this unfortunately

[CrowdfordBot]

federick: 😔

[CrowdfordBot]

federick: This is kind of ending up a lot like a different Devil wager system, so perhaps using some system similar to that as a base could work

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: Reaper Each night can make x people sleepless if a sleepless player dies they will stay alive for the next phase but will be powerless (E.G if sab wolf is lynched as sleepless they will die the end of the next night but cannot sabotage) the reaper will learn their current role they can communicate with the reaper and request the reaper attack a player if the reaper accepts that player will be be attacked end phase as the sleepless player dies

Wins if all alive are nightmare/unaligned/sleepless

Wraith Each night can investigate a player to learn their role can disguise as that role

[CrowdfordBot]

federick: What happens if the players are demonised + sleepless?

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federick: Does it give priority to the demonised change then will act on the sleepless if they die again?

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federick: I can see sleepless being prioritised over demonised being more interesting

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e_thsn: it would priorotise sleepless

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federick: So they turn undead after the kill goes through?

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mctsts: sleepless would be an effect based partial defense

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mctsts: so 3.5

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e_thsn:

So they turn undead after the kill goes through?

end night yes, end day no

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captainluffy: The last time it was used (riciano lol) I thought it worked really well

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captainluffy: He said it was his favorite role he ever played as

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federick: Yea i think its good, just needs to be streamlined

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e_thsn: I think anything with copying abilities is doomed to fail

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e_thsn: due to it's nature of adding abilities that may not be useful

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captainluffy: I don't see an issue with that imo

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e_thsn: plus then the identity of the role is being every other role

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captainluffy: Cupid is one of the most liked roles

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e_thsn: cupid doesn't copy another role though

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e_thsn: it has it's own identity

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federick: Yea it just copies alignment

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mctsts:

Cupid is one of the most liked roles

source?

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: or are we just making data up now

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: it ranked 44/95 which I would not describe as "one of the most liked roles"