New Nightmare Thread

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shapechange: Since the old one got ridiculously clogged, this is a chance for the GMs who voted to keep Nightmare Team (<@334136126745083907>, <@234474456624529410>) to find some way to improve it, else we'll just delete it and be done with the matter.

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jeand.arch: Can it be just as simple as making two sleepless players at night and being able to see dead roles... hmm. I personally never saw anything wrong with the OG reaper role thooo

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jeand.arch: Its just i dont really get the issue with it

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shapechange: the og reaper had essentially an infinite amount of edge cases and confusion

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shapechange: the current reaper is a simplification of the second version of reaper we had and quite frankly it fucking sucks

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shapechange:

Can it be just as simple as making two sleepless players at night and being able to see dead roles... hmm. I personally never saw anything wrong with the OG reaper role thooo

your suggestion here is basically just a better fp (sleepless players aren't known and for whatever reason reaper can see dead roles, which doesn't really help them in any way)

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jeand.arch: Okay how about this.... the reaper can turn people sleepless and the more dead players there is the more powerful it becomes.

Lets just say if 25% people are dead or less they can just turn ppl sleepless

~50% people are dead and they can investigate

Over 50% players dead they can kill each night

Or something similar to that

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jeand.arch: Simple enough, is it?

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jeand.arch: OR make it like this, they can choose to steal the soul (need different term to avoid confusion from hell team) at night by predicting who dies at night. If they successfully predict the dead, they will receive a soul.

The soul can be used to kill someone (or any other power like invest etc), in addition to turning players sleepless at night

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captainluffy: I like current version, but I guess I'm alone on that

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jeand.arch: Yeah luffy is the one who played it

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captainluffy: It sees dead roles and uses their powers

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captainluffy: But Simplified to just category of dead roles

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jeand.arch: Apparently the role makes edge cases

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jeand.arch: (Such as?)

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captainluffy: I haven't seen this version being used and people not liking it

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captainluffy: Last time it was used, the person who got the role said it was their favorite role they ever played

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captainluffy:

Apparently the role makes edge cases

Yeah not sure what the edge cases are

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captainluffy: They might exist but I can't think of them

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jeand.arch:

the current reaper is a simplification of the second version of reaper we had and quite frankly it fucking sucks

"It sucks" is kinda subjective tbh. The ones who played it like it

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jeand.arch: I havent played it but i like the concept

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shapechange:

Apparently the role makes edge cases

literally not at all what i said

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jeand.arch: Oh yea you mean the OG reaper lol

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shapechange: the problems peope have with reaper were all discussed in the initial thread, i thought everyone had seen those: the major issues we have are that a) there's disconnect between the abilities, there's no apparent reason to have those abilities together except because it needs all of them to be at all balanced b) it's overly complex in that it has several abilities, often using two or three in a night

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shapechange: anyway this thread kind of isn't about whether you think nightmare team is currently fine or not: enough people think it isn't that if nobody comes up with a way to rework it, it is going to be scrapped

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shapechange: you two (and fed, but i believe he already had a go and eventually gave up) were the ones who expressed interest in reworking it

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shapechange:

Last time it was used, the person who got the role said it was their favorite role they ever played

relying on the testimony of a banned player lmao

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jeand.arch: Would limiting the usage to one ability per night (and make the older dead abilities expire after some time) fix the issue?

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jeand.arch: Oof... rici lmao

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jeand.arch: Dont get me wrong, I cant do anything if everyone else says its bad. If so, then scrap it. I just think the concept is cool and has potentials

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shapechange: i do agree that it has potential but i dont want to think of a rework rn

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shapechange: what we can always do is scrap it now and then if anyone does end up having a good idea for it, we can bring it back

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jeand.arch:

Okay how about this.... the reaper can turn people sleepless and the more dead players there is the more powerful it becomes.

Lets just say if 25% people are dead or less they can just turn ppl sleepless

~50% people are dead and they can investigate

Over 50% players dead they can kill each night

Or something similar to that

How about this?

Tbh im not too hung up on it being deleted, so if its being scrapped then im okay with it

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shapechange: it's an interesting starting point

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shapechange: though i think if we want scaling abilities, we should just scale up the amount of players it can make sleepless as people die

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captainluffy: I mean yeah it's disconnected but it only really has two core abilities. 1: sleepless someone each night, 2: get powers of roles that die. Theres a few different powers but it all comes from getting the abilities of roles that die, which ofc is gonna have variety. Just like how devil wager has 4 options but they're connected via wager. Devil souls have 3 ways to get used, but it's connected via just using soul. I believe this is more quantity of things than reaper if you include the disguise and hell trust and maybe some other things I forgot

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captainluffy: (And for point B, I know it's not for everyone but that's a big appeal of the role for me and makes it so much more fun. Adds lots of strategy for everyone on all teams when it comes to who's being killed, and so much fun strategy comes from it)

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captainluffy: The specifics of the 2 core powers can get tweaks ofc. But if you do anything to change the second core ability conpletely (learn dead roles and get their powers), then it's just a different role

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captainluffy: If the main issue is ability 2 (learn dead role and get their powers) then really nothing can work while still keeping the role as reaper

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captainluffy: But I'm fairly certain people don't find that to be an issue, because most people wanted to keep reaper but tweak it. And thats something you can't tweak if it's still going to be the reaper role.

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captainluffy: So if that ability isn't what people dislike, then what even is it that needs it to be revamped

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captainluffy: Because you can't revamp it while keeping that ability, it's still the same role basically

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captainluffy: Since people mostly all voted revamp, the consensus clearly isn't that the points above were the issues because that's the part they liked

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captainluffy: And if that's not the issue, then what even is the issue. Is it that the number of different powers is too great? Because that can be changed by simplifying it. But numbers isn't an issue, because devil has a bunch of those. If it's disconnect of powers, then they can just be reduced into less powers. It can't be number of powers each night because that's people's favorite part of the role

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captainluffy:

Anyways point is, revamps make no sense here. Can adjust the current role, if anything

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captainluffy: But archs idea was pretty good though, I think it is close to a reaper with a heavily reduced quantity of abilities

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captainluffy: I have a lot more I could say but this wall of text is plenty huge already

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jeand.arch: Yeah, okay ik wwr isnt the same as ToS but personally I really enjoy playing as Necromancer / Retributionist which is basically Reaper. And theres never an issue with either of those roles

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shapechange: yeah okay you guys just didnt read the initial thread

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shapechange: not much point in this one existing then

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e_thsn: Maybe give it a tan for disguise roles