Dog / Cat

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Ts: For a lone Dog, Journalist is a valid option, however for the Dog/Cat combo, Journalist is an awful option.

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venomousbirds: the ua makes it so much more interesting

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venomousbirds: dog/cat will always created some sort of balance, the ua option adds an interesting element of "oh, we may or may not have the numbers"

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venomousbirds: where only town or wolf options just adds a certainty

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mctsts:

if one turns into wolf and one turns into whats basically tc, why not add a wolf and a tc to the list?

thats not remotely the same thing

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mctsts: a tc is clearly town aligned and a wolf clearly wolf aligned

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mctsts: it has the same interesting element you mention, except it's "dog/cat may or may not be on our side"

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mctsts: and it actually allows us to use it in a role list

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mctsts: the suggested change has way more uncertainity really

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mctsts: because it's fairly easy to tell if the dog/cat are cciv/ua or cit/wolf

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venomousbirds: it doesnt, the suggested change just adds more certainty

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e_thsn: Also wolves can easily fake claim the role too as well as the wolf aligned cat/dog can easily fake being town

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venomousbirds: you know that whatever happens, you have one more member on your team

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mctsts: yeah but you know that right now as well fairly quickly

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mctsts: and then you have complete certainity

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mctsts: with the suggested change you can never be certain

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venomousbirds: you can? you know your team has another member?

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mctsts: yeah but you dont know who it is

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mctsts: and what their role is

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venomousbirds: neither do you with the old version

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mctsts: yeah you do

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mctsts: you can check them for example

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venomousbirds: and you figure it out with the same methods

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mctsts: not really

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venomousbirds: you can also check the suggested version?

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mctsts: you cant

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mctsts: you'll only get dog/cat

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e_thsn: and they appear as dog or cat

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e_thsn: you can't even AT check them or Huntsman check them only oracle would work

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venomousbirds: what

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mctsts:

you can? you know your team has another member?

and I still argue this is a bad thing

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venomousbirds: you know that if you see a dog/cat, its either your team member or not

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mctsts: well yeah

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mctsts: and if you see a journalist you know its your team member

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venomousbirds: i think this change is stupid

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venomousbirds: why does everything need to change

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venomousbirds: why do we need yet another role simplification

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mctsts: Flawed roles should be improved

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venomousbirds: i think the flaw here is the weird cciv situation

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e_thsn: Because we don't use roles because they have so many issues

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mctsts: The concept of Dog/Cat is that you are not supposed to be able to tell which is which

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venomousbirds: i would use dog/cat in its current state

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mctsts: having the townie be a journalist absolutely breaks the core concept of the role

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mctsts: as it reveals on death

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venomousbirds: ?

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mctsts: It makes the core idea of hiding the alignment from Reporter pointless

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mctsts: journalist confirms itself on death, breaking the core idea of the role

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mctsts: Which very clearly makes the role in its current state flawed

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venomousbirds: the core concept of dog is the role change

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venomousbirds: youre specifically changing that

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mctsts: No the core concept is becoming either town or wolf aligned and hiding this from Reporter