Project name and logo can hurt people's sensibilities

[hamoid]

Hi! Thank you for releasing this project. I'm often looking for a language that is powerful and fast to compile that helps with experimentation :)

This issue may sound like a joke but it's not. I find it uncomfortable to look at a logo representing a sliced dead animal. Growing large animals for human consumption is also a contributor to the climate problem. I guess so far I'm part of a small but growing minority, but I thought I should still raise awareness to this. I know changing a name is a hard issue to fix.

Maybe Beef could be an acronym of something less bloody and the logo match that acronym?

Or if the authors are strong believers in raising animals for human consumption an option would be to fork the project and replace every mention of Beef with another word to appeal to a wider audience? Leaf sounds similar and has the same number of characters, but leaf-lang exists already.

In any case thank you for considering this.

[LucaSoato]

Beef is such a common word that finding resources or documentation for the project is going to be very hard in the future, but BF is also the author's name initials 😕

[bfiete]

I'd say the logo already must change for this reason: it's not uniquely representative of the programming language itself. If you were to see the logo in isolation, you would not think "hey, that's BeefLang!" the same way you would for the Rust, Swift, or Python logos.

Honestly it was just chosen because I need some sort of icon and that was the laziest choice. If someone were to submit something even slightly better then that would be the new logo -- until someone thinks of something even better than that!

[rafaelvasco]

Something old school demo scene style logo would be great :)

[falfiya]

First of all, I think this is a great project. Thanks for sharing it! I agree with the change in logo but for another reason. I recognized it from Restaurant City, a game that's owned by Playfish. It's actually supposed to be lamb. I don't know if they own the rights to that artwork but better to be safe, right?

[tjpalmer]

There's also the entire Hindu population of the planet that might be turned off. I'm not Hindu myself, so maybe I'm wrong. But that's what came to mind immediately to me.

[stefanos82]

I guess calling it BriFi that rhymes with "Beefy" would be a lot better on so many levels.

[sukhchainn]

I made this. It's not much, but it's an honest work.

[dmatking]

It's nice. Is there a meaning behind your design and color selections?

[sukhchainn]

@hamoid mentioned Leaf so I thought this would go well with the name, but to be honest I thought that logo should be simple and easy to remember.

[sacredbirdman]

Here's a simple idea based on the current name.

[Phischermen]

Since the language's main goal is to be more performant than C#, maybe you could do a logo with a flexing bicep? So rather than beef as in meat, its beef as in muscle.

[Phischermen]

Beef is such a common word that finding resources or documentation for the project is going to be very hard in the future

I agree with this. What if the name was changed to "Beef#"? I'm sure that will make it easier to find resources for online.

[sukhchainn]

Beef is such a common word that finding resources or documentation for the project is going to be very hard in the future

I agree with this. What if the name was changed to "Beef#"? I'm sure that will make it easier to find resources for online.

Or maybe #Beef ? It would make finding tutorials easier online for noobs.

[awulkan]

I don't really care if it's named "beef", if you want to name it that then do so. However it did make me think that this project was just a joke. It's not the kind of name I'd give a project that I wanted to succeed, if you get what I'm saying. I can't imagine me saying "We should try doing this project in beef" at a meeting. Maybe it's just me though.

Also, in terms of SEO it would be impossible to rank high in search engines, unless you're fine with people having to search for things like "beef lang".

Anyway, good luck with the language, it looks interesting. :)

[xinaesthete]

Here's a simple idea based on the current name.

Looks pretty good but why not further simplify by removing the orange drag-handle type things or whatever they are?

[Grinshpon]

Why is this issue still open? A game-centered programming language is not the place for vegan protests

[sukhchain99]

Why is this issue still open? A game-centered programming language is not the place for vegan protests

Every life matters and every vote counts. I don't think offending vegan programmers will get this project far and negative publicity doesn't work well for Programming projects.

Proof: Corona SDK.

[Grinshpon]

Is there really a community of vegan programmers that get offended by the mention or sight of meat?

[ghost]

Is there really a community of vegan programmers that get offended by the mention or sight of meat?

Is there really a community of vegan programmers that get offended by the sight of meat? I'm not sure. Is there a community of rampant elitists that go out of their way to shun replies with reactions to create the illusion of support behind an exclusive idea. Hacking has historically been an inclusive community to such an extent the only requirements were a shitty modem and a computer; the most divisive thing to exist was the GIMP abbreviation. Slapping a rendition of meat, a produce 8% of the worlds population has deemed immoral, is the last thing any sane project manager should consider. Why yes we should turn away 15%⋂8% of potential gamedevs, langdevs, and related (*15% hindu, 8% vegetarian, 1% vegans, some overlap worthy of note)

[Bigalan09]

It a difficult one. For me, I really like the idea of this project and I would hate to see it fail because of a name and icon. Imagine A few years down the line and colleges are teaching "beef"? it doesn't sound appealing.

[sukhchain99]

At least change the logo. The worst thing possible for this Project can be, either it gets abandoned or a copyright claim. The name beef doesn't affect the market image as the logo does. It's a really cartoonish logo which misrepresents the language's capabilities, if I hadn't watched the video by GameFromScratch then I wouldn't have considered learning it. I think the logo should be changed at least for now.

[animehunter]

I strongly agree that this project needs a name/logo change. It would be a huge shame to see it get abandoned since it has so much potential to become the next big programming language for game devs, system devs, backend devs, etc.

It's not too late to change it now especially since the party is only getting started.

[GH-TheRaven-06835]

I'm voting for Cheese Burger

[EnokViking]

I partly agree, the language sort of comes off as your typical troll language, e.g. "lolcode" and doesn't properly convey that it is in fact a serious thing, but changing the name just because "it might offend someone" is just all wrong and frankly, straight out regressive. That said, something that conveys it as a C-family language is probably more beneficial in the long run.

[raizam]

I vote for Bean, it's a good alternative to Beef as it has as much protein

[EMBYRDEV]

Just throwing my 2c in here but the name Beef is just dumb imo... I found this while scouting for a more performant language than C# but more modern than C++ for my side-project.

My project is going to be a huge undertaking and I dont really want one of my crowning achievements to be "wrote a game engine in Beef". Getting any studio to take it seriously will be a difficult job too, "check out this new game oriented language called Beef"... management isn't gonna see past that without some serious arguing.

@EnokViking is 100% right... this isnt about offending people, it's about actually being taken seriously as a C# competitor and not just a group of bros who are looking for laughs.

[bfiete]

You are right, Beef is a dumb name.

But no, the language will not rebrand and rename for the sake of conforming to a serious and professional tone. This project will enforce it's artistic right to attempt to be a great tool without conforming to the expected dry tone of the field.

I think the fears of management caring around what your tools are named is a bit odd - what kind of management would push you to use one tool over another because they like the name better?

[awulkan]

@bfiete In that case I guess you can close this issue. It's in your full right to name it whatever you want of course. We're all just a bunch of random people with opinions. If the language name is already set in stone we're all just wasting time here discussing it.

Maybe it's better to open another issue just for the logo change, since you brought up that you wanted to change it?

I do however think the naming will hurt the general adoption of the language, due to it sounding like any other esoteric language. Such as Brainfuck, Pikachu, Rockstar, LOLCODE, etc.

[bfiete]

This issue will come up again and again, just leave this open. Lots of people hated the name Rust at first also, but now that's just the name.

[awulkan]

I guess that true. I'd say that Rust is a bit more neutral for a name though. Anyway, if this issue is going to remain open I'll at least unsubscribe from it.

Good luck with the language (not being sarcastic, I'll check back on it every now and then).

[sukhchain99]

Pun intended!

[sukhchain99]

Since BEEF is also a valid hexadecimal number. A small meme.

[targrub]

How about COW? Copy On Write is a thing, and the cow graphics for the installer are adorable.

[sukhchainn]

Simple concept art as a prototype. I know it could be made better, but I made it in Kolotpaint which is Linux equivalent to MS Paint so it doesn't look very nice, but if we try this concept in a better tool then I'm sure it would come out better.

Non-copyright Image, free for use and consider it MIT licenced.

[sukhchain99]

Take this, hate us!

Edit: Yet another meme. 😂

[sukhchainn]

@bfiete as you already mentioned before, I am assuming that you are still looking for a Logo for BeefLang. If you could just tell me what kind of Logo you want, it would make it easier to design it. Like what values should the Logo symbolize or if you prefer a certain theme over others?

[sacredbirdman]

@sukhchainn Yup, it'd be good to know a bit about the values and sentiments that a logo should try to convey :) That being said here's another (a bit punny) idea for the logo =)

It's Bee F

[HydrogenC]

These logos look great, hope that one of them will be accepted.

[sukhchain99]

Title: Got some sensibilities?

Comment: This is pixel art and on some devices it may appear blurred.

[nmsobri]

I agree with OP..Im sorry if others might find it funny, but the reason I dont use this language is because of its name. I mean Beef? Dont end up like Go, its hardly googleable.. Plus at the homepage of the language that is a picture of a piece of meat..

I mean, whose gonna take this language seriously with those kind of attribute..

Don't take it negatively, I do really like the language, but i do have serious gripe with the name and the logo of the language. I cant take this language seriously..

[Zen12]

I think, it's a good idea to have a dumb name in language, it won't attract naive developers. That make decisions based on language name and not benchmark it. At least in WIP stage...

Personally, I don't want that Beef-community to transform in to something like Unity-community...

[nj39]

the language will not rebrand and rename for the sake of conforming to a serious and professional tone. This project will enforce it's artistic right to attempt to be a great tool without conforming to the expected dry tone of the field.

@bfiete I'm probably grasping at straws here looking for technicalities in your wording, but let me dream: Are there other reasons that the project might change it's name? Or was that comment saying that you're not open to changing the name for any reason? I completely agree that a project should have its own "spirit" and not be all dry and professional! I am 1000% behind that 👍

So the joviality of the name is great, I think. The problem with the name is that it mixes this joviality with a term that currently implies very real large-scale, unnecessary suffering. Those two don't mix very well, I think. I grew up on a (dairy) farm, and my dad currently farms Angus cattle, so I'm not going off some peta campaign here. It's really unpleasant when you see what these animals have to go through to get to our plate. If you watch this video (it has no blood or gore at all) at least through to the 2 minute-ish mark, you'll get a taste of what comes to mind for many people when they think about the word beef. This documentary does contain footage of violence, but is worth watching if you want to get a full sense of the suffering caused by the meat industry, and related industries. This is of course not to mention the greenhouse gases, loss of biodiversity, ocean dead zones, and other problems caused by meat production. Altogether, it's not a pleasant thing to juxtapose with the cheery spirit of the project.

In any case, I really wish you well with this language whatever you choose! Maybe in the future "beef" will eventually come to refer primarily to the cell-culture version of the food, and then the current name would feel more comfortable :P

[Kolsky]

Come on, are you serious? People are going too crazy with tolerance nowadays. It's the name of a programming language ftfs, it doesn't even change for the most of them, especially not for odd and weak reasons, and it can be almost anything (remember brainfuck).

[AihjawvBawiuojfvnW0of92]

Hi! Thank you for releasing this project. I'm often looking for a language that is powerful and fast to compile that helps with experimentation :)

This issue may sound like a joke but it's not. I find it uncomfortable to look at a logo representing a sliced dead animal. Growing large animals for human consumption is also a contributor to the climate problem. I guess so far I'm part of a small but growing minority, but I thought I should still raise awareness to this. I know changing a name is a hard issue to fix.

Maybe Beef could be an acronym of something less bloody and the logo match that acronym?

Or if the authors are strong believers in raising animals for human consumption an option would be to fork the project and replace every mention of Beef with another word to appeal to a wider audience? Leaf sounds similar and has the same number of characters, but leaf-lang exists already.

In any case thank you for considering this.

are you braindead

[revillo]

I don't mind the name, but the raw steak logo is pretty jarring. My advice is to go with the living cow icon (that's already in the project) rather than the dead cow icon. I don't think anyone can be offended by a happy cow face and the matter could be put to rest for a while.

Language itself looks perfect though, so stoked for this :)

[CorneliusCornbread]

Here's a simple idea based on the current name.

I love this logo. Looks great, super clever, and clean design and is super easy to read. Looks much better and less tacky than the current logo. I honestly think the logo should be changed not because it's related to another game or because it's "sliced dead animal" but just because it looks super dated and tacky.

[sacredbirdman]

Thanks for the feedback. I gave this idea a new look with fresh eyes and came up with this design.

[EnokViking]

Thanks for the feedback. I gave this idea a new look with fresh eyes and came up with this design.

It looks nice, >but< doesn't quite convey the message properly imo. It looks like FB or maybe even F3 which doesn't make much sense in this context and your previous one, which also looks nice, suffer from the same problem.

[dsoronda]

How about name : Lion ? it's "king of animals", so this could be "king of programming languages" ? Just my 2c.

[tjpalmer]

Could keep the name Beef but have a beefy arm as the logo, a la Trogdor.

• Exhibit A
• Exhibit B
• Exhibit C