Estates

[stackpoint]

• [x] estate_church
• [x] estate_nobles
• [x] estate_burghers
• [x] estate_cossacks
• [x] estate_dhimmi
• [x] estate_janissary
• [x] estate_nationalist
• [x] estate_jains
• [x] estate_rajput
• [x] estate_brahmins
• [x] estate_maratha
• [x] estate_vaisyas

[Grociu]

Estate interactions are reportedly a confusing mess for a newcomer. With a blessing, I'll be working on these ideas to improve the UX:

• [x] Color coding the interactions - get money and power to green, execute important person to red and so on.
• [x] Reordering the interactions so they appear in a more organized order (by color groups)

[afowl]

Color coding yes. Though my idea was that group them in files and explain how to change colors so a person can potentially change colors.

Order is fine imo just needs to be done for all estates in similar fashion

[Grociu]

The argument for changing the order: it will look really weird when color coded if the colors are not grouped. I think they appear in order of appearance in name_of_estate.txt so that would be just a matter of rearranging them after the criteria for colors are established.

[stackpoint]

We can color first and figure out the specific order later.

[Grociu]

Proof of concept unsorted: Following key was used for these Clergy interaction: (number in bracket, position in current code)

• I get something good, they lose loyalty: GREEN

  Impose a tax (2) Demand Administrative Support (6)

• I get something, they get Influence: TEAL

  Send Emissary to Pope (3) Establish New World Missions (9) Recruit Minister x3 (15-17)

• I get something, they lose loyalty but gain influence: YELLOW

  Recruit from Their Domain (7) Ask for Reform Support (8)

• They get loyalty for a price: MAROON

  Make generous Donation (4) Clerical Congress (Gov Interaction) (10) Display Legitimacy (11) Display Prestige (12)

• They get influence and loyalty: WHITE

  Make Promises (1) Seek Support of the Clergy (5) Grant Favor (13) Underline Privilege (14)

• Things went really bad: RED

  Confiscation of Lands (18) Execute Important Person (19) Limit Influence (20)

Other color options: g - grey b - black B - blue

[Grociu]

Sorted:

[stackpoint]

It looks good and the reasoning is good. @afowl what do you think?

[Grociu]

Issue: It's hard to see which interactions were clicked already. I can't find the gui for the interaction buttons. My intention was to modify the 'greyed out' effect, but it might be hardcoded. Anyone had any experience with that? On the picture below, starting with green Impose a Tax, everything below is cllicked/unavailable. Hard to see the cut.

[afowl]

Don't sort imo. I think they were sorted by some intention of how long between clicks are they and usefullness

[Grociu]

That may have been so at the start, but those numbers (time between clicks) were modified already. I prefer sorted, even though it's more work for me ;). I will definitely color them all. Sorting will rearrange the order of interactions in name_of_estate.txt. Should I sort @stackpoint ?

[stackpoint]

I think we should leave it unsorted for now. There is still a bit of work to be done for the estates in terms of functionality which can issues and the specific order could use some work too.

Like recruit ministers should be the second to last group. And demand administrative support wants to be behind the add influence options to increase its output.

[stackpoint]

I definitely think you should commit the color changes to master though, very well thought out coloring scheme. And we can definitely draft orders and discuss why things should be in this or that order.

Something I've noticed is that a lot of the estates functionality seems baked in. Scripted triggers don't seem to work and I can't get custom localization working at all (expire date on title).

[Grociu]

For reference Brahmins and Clergy. Order is just a mess. Switching between them is visually painful.

[stackpoint]

Yeah, once I do a pass on all the estates we can definitely figure out a specific order.

[Grociu]

<I can't read code>

[stackpoint]

Moving the interactions from vanilla into the mod files.

Not sure what you mean by this.

[Grociu]

Nevermind, I was incorrect.

[stackpoint]

church	nobility	burghers
	Call Cortes
Make Promises	Make Promises	Make Promises
Impose a Tax	Impose a Tax	ASK FOR CONTRIBUTION*
Send Emissary to Pope*
MAKE GENEROUS DONATION*	Call Diet*	GRANT MONOPOLY CHARTER*
Seek Support of Clergy*
Demand Administrative Support*	Demand Military Support*	DEMAND SUPPORT BURGHERS*
Recruit from their Domain	Recruit from their Domain	Recruit from their Domain
Ask for Reform Support	Ask for Reform Support	Ask for Reform Support
Establist New World Missions*	Grant General*	GRANT ADMIRALSHIP*
	Recruit Conquistador*	RECRUIT EXPLORER
		GRANT NEW WORLD CHARTER*
		COMISSION MERCHANT SHIPS FOR WAR*
		Galleys
Government Interaction	Government Interaction	Government Interaction
Display Legitimacy	Display Legitimacy	Display Legitimacy
Display Prestige	Display Prestige	Display Prestige
Pass Reform	Pass Reform	Pass Reform
Grant a Favour	Grant a Favour	Grant a Favour
Underline Privileges	Underline Privileges	Underline Privileges
	Raise Additional Levies*
Recruit Minister (Stability)	Recruit Minister (Improve Relations)*	Recruit Minister (naval reformer)
Recruit Minister (National Unrest)*	Recruit Minister (Shock Damage)	RECRUIT MINISTER (master of mint)*
Recruit Inquisitor*
Confiscation of Lands	Confiscation of Lands	Confiscation of Lands
Execute Important Person	Execute Important Person	Execute Important Person
Limit Influence	Limit Influence	Limit Influence

[stackpoint]

As mentioned earlier, the estate clicks outside the main three are completely unsorted and missing functionality. Before I get started adding functionality and ai_will_do logic to the other estates, I would like to figure out a general order to estates clicks so it's easier to work on the estates and figure out which functionality I should add in. In my above comment is the current estate interactions.

[Grociu]

My idea of grouping 'by color' would be estetically pleasing. After going through almost all the interactions however, this schemet might get confusing with the more obscure estates. Those interactions are less clear cut than the standard and familiar IV ones, while colored the same. Sometimes there is a negative effect for you where you would expect a positive for example.

The 'by color' idea is essentially to group the interactions by their impact on loyalty and influence as described in the coloring scheme above. For example if a click increases your influence but decreases loyalty, they are grouped together. In addition to the colors in the post above, I used BLUE twice to denote interactions that make you just lose influence, and GREY once for an interaction in Rajputs, that's unrelated to loyalty/influence system.

Another idea is to group them by Vanilla Interactions first, IV Interactions later. This will put the familiar Paradox clicks on top, and then NEW shiny options - limiting confusion for a newcomer.

For the IV interactions ignoring other factors I propose the following order (based on my color scheme):

Impose a Tax you want to press this on cooldown, put it on top

Recruit Minister feels familiar and easily understood, should be high

Display Legitimacy these give you loyalty at a price, Display Prestige I'm personally more likely to sac legit>prest>prog hence this order Pass a Law

Make Promises these give loyalty and influence and can be used to get above 75 inf easily Underline Privileges ordered by impact and likeliness of a click imo Grant a Favour This group could be switched with above

Recruit from their Domain More likely to ask for troops then reform Ask for Reform Support

Limit Influence there are the bad interactions I don't really want to click Confiscation of Lands ordered by severity Execute Important Person

As for Reform Clicks, these do different things based on estate, hard to point to a unified spot

NOTE: For effects of clicks, there is very little consistency with the order of effects in the tooltips (this depends on positioning in code).

The best consistent order here would be I think: Prestige/Legitimacy/Reform Support Cost (or any standard value really) Ducat Cost Custom Effect, like a timed modifier Effect on this estate LOYALTY Effect on this estate INFLUENCE Effects on other estated

[stackpoint]

Your proposed effects order sounds good to me. We should wait until all the interactions are consistent between estates before getting started on it though.

I believe the initial ordering was based on what order you'd want to click the buttons in, but the color coding in the same order does something similar.

I think that the ordering by color then most likely to use seems good.

Spreadsheet: LINK

[stackpoint]

It looks like there are functionally duplicate interactions: Seek Support of Clergy is a specific form of Display Legitimacy and Raise Additional Levies is a specific form of Recruit from their Domain. I will probably remove the generic version from their interactions like how the burghers don't have a Impose a Tax on top of their ASK FOR CONTRIBUTION.

[stackpoint]

Thanks @Grociu color coding looks great.

And instead of removing the overlapping decisions, I ended up just adding the tax option to the burghers since they use a different ducat calculation.

[stackpoint]

So I just finished going through all the estates and tried to sort them consistently and added ai_will_do to all of them. There was a lot of small edits so its very likely that there were mistakes made (as seen by my constant bugfixes while going through the estates)