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:mute: The dwyl London office, No. 16 Palmers Rd
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Key-less Door Entry System #27

Open nelsonic opened 7 years ago

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

At present we have "traditional" metal keys for locking the QuietSpace office. While this has worked in the past it has 3 important disadvantages:

We therefore propose (for discussion) the installation of a key-less door entry system. A key-less entry system will eliminate all the disadvantages of an "old school" key system.

Baseline Requirements:

Really Nice-to-Have Features:

Background

@BarisBalic has recently implemented a key-less entry system for "The Arch Climbing Wall" http://www.archclimbingwall.com so has plenty of experience and could help us if we ask nicely and feed him plenty of vegan curry ... 😋 @mk4111 if you want to help/pair on this we'd be delighted to get your input! 👍

London Hackspace https://london.hackspace.org.uk/ have had an RFID door entry system tied to their membership database for at least 4 years (since we've been members) so we could ask someone there to help us with getting our system installed. 💭

This could be a paid dwyl "Mini Project" because we are going to need this system for "Phase 2". 🌱

iteles commented 7 years ago

I particularly like this because it mean that 'opening hours' are a thing of the past. Thanks for emailing @BarisBalic!

barisbalic commented 7 years ago

Hey gang, my experience hasn't actually included a locking mechanism, but I did look into them for future use. Your MVP may be to buy an electronic door lock with a remote and then control the remote with a relay circuit, this lets you build with off the shelf parts, and, importantly means you would have a key as a backup, because as we all know, tech breaks :(

In my project the NFC tags only act as an identifier, and prompt a member of staff with an image of the owner, so it's hard for someone to abuse. In your case you want things to be fully automated so you need to consider all of the attack vectors and then work out how much risk you're willing to accept.

Standard NFC tags have their ID set by manufacturer, meaning that if you have a limited set of IDs you will accept, an attacker will need to copy those also, which is possible but is a bit harder. If you validate both ID and some other arbitrary data on the tag then you can also rate-limit tags and head off any brute-force attempts. Of course by it's nature that means it's possible for an attacker to DoS the door, but probably better than letting someone in.

There are 'secure' tags, such as the MIFARE DESFire (latest version possible), that allow you to encrypt data in such a way that it cannot be accessed without a key, but I suspect you need a specifically compatible reader for these kinds of cards, this would be worth looking into now as they may require some terrible proprietary hardware.

Another idea I toyed with is two factor auth: registering both tags and the MAC addresses of the tag owners hardware (phone/laptop/tablet), you can limit access to tags that are accompanied by their owners hardware.

Some general advice which might seem obvious:

I'm not sure if this was helpful, but if there are any questions this raises then let me know and I'll do my best to provide an answer or more detail, and let me know if you need any help.

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

@barisbalic this is more helpful than you can imagine! (seriously thank you!) We've done some basic research on electronic door locks: https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Electronic-Strike-Releases/Electronic-Composite-Door-Locks.html But not been able to determine which is a good one to choose for the door we have... 🤔 I think a good "next action" would be to take lots of photos of the "QuietSpace" door so we can ask for advice from a door/lock expert. 👍

mk4111 commented 7 years ago

@nelsonic - keen! I always leave my keys behind; this'd be siiiick

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

@mk4111 glad you like the idea. want to be "lead" for this "Mini Project". 😉 (it just means you making sure we get this done. sadly I don't have time to focus on it...)

@barisbalic is our "implementation/design expert". fairly certain you've met at meetup ... 👍 (you're both vegan, like coding and climbing so should work well as a "team")

@markwilliamfirth is your "Product Owner" and will order anything you need (e.g. components/tools) from Amazon etc.

@eliascodes is also into hardware hacking so you should get his input/feedback. 💭

We don't have a "deadline" for this, but it would be great to get it done by Friday 24th March because we need to start actively "recruiting" New Members for QuietSpace see: https://github.com/dwyl/quietspace/pull/26

ghost commented 7 years ago

@nelsonic I don't think it's been fully decided if we're doing this (or even staying in QuietSpace) yet

and if we do go through with it, there might be a good case for getting a security company to do it for us rather than us building it in-house

barisbalic commented 7 years ago

FYI @nelsonic, @iteles, @mk4111, @markwilliamfirth in return for any help, I must insist that any cards are printed as keycards from doom...

red keycard

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

@markwilliamfirth agreed. we are at the "research and feasibility study" stage. For insurance purposes we should definitely get a pro/company to assess (and then potentially install) the initial electronic lock on the door so we have a receipt. but we would not use a closed source "black box" system because it's not re-useable by anyone. We absolutely need to cost how much it will be to install and write up a business case beyond my initial "user story" (above) because we cannot spend tons of money at this stage which we might not see the return/benefit of. 👍 With that said, I know we will be using digital locks in "Phase 2" and @iteles's brother will cross-subsidise the project if he can use it for his development if we can package it up nicely with high quality card readers and eventually a nice interface, etc. Yes, we need to decide soon if we are going to be running QuietSpace beyond May 2017, I have a sense that it's a "strategic" investment that goes way beyond the "Desk Space cost".

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

Photos of the current door lock: img_4356 img_4357 img_4358 img_4359 img_4360 img_4361 img_4362

barisbalic commented 7 years ago

I suspect you will have to find a lock that matches/fits this kind of door. I would hope that there is a standard but I can't tell you what it is, otherwise you would likely need to replace the whole door.

mk4111 commented 7 years ago

@nelsonic, can I just double check whether we still want to aim to complete the research and feasibility study by 24th March 2017? Just because it's soon, and I'd like to think about the next few steps to get this rolling! (I have seen the issue about investigating digital locks in Phase 2)

nelsonic commented 7 years ago

@mk4111 good question! We need to call East London Locksmith or UPVC door installers to find out if it's possible to install an electronic door lock on the door @QuietSpace ... without that info we cannot proceed any further with this project ... please let me know if you're happy to make a few phonecalls and/or send emails.

E.g: last week I sent out the following email: (which I have Forwarded to you in case you want to re-use it) image

Got this reply: image

And the chap is right we need to speak to the "right" people before doing anything else. I've just been caught up in other work and haven't followed up on it, but if you have time it would be awesome if you can. (please let us know)

mk4111 commented 7 years ago

@nelsonic - yup yup, would be happy to make phonecalls/send emails!! Will need to have a wee googley to find out about companies! I'll spend a pommy or two doing this tomorrow morning and will list out a few companies here; hope that's okidokie(?)!

ghost commented 6 years ago

@mk4111 I hope you're well and enjoying airsorted! Wanted to ask if there was an update for where this issue ended up? Did anyone reply to you?