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euruko2013 / committee

EuRuKo 2013 organising committee repo
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Venue investigation #5

Closed teoulas closed 12 years ago

teoulas commented 12 years ago

Let's find out what are the possible venues, where they are, their capacity and their cost.

I've added an xls file to the repo, but we could also host it in google docs.

damphyr commented 12 years ago

Prefer gdocs (for one I don't have Excel ;) )

HAs anyone gotten in contact with the venues already on the list? Who will take the lead on this?

teoulas commented 12 years ago

It also opens in libre/openoffice. The original gdocs spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlsxhlyAq1TrdGhnbVJHbGpYbzVWM0IwTi10ZVpsUEE (allows editing, don't share the link). I'm fine with either, but let's stick to one of them so we won't have syncing issues.

Does anyone else have other venues in mind? I can start contacting them. What info do we need from them, apart from cost and availability?

petros commented 12 years ago

Unfortunately I don't know Athens well enough to also be able to propose venues. I leave this up to you guys :)

pagojo commented 12 years ago

Guys we can just use the FINE wiki for keeping such data inside github...please!

teoulas commented 12 years ago

I had these before the github account was up. Here's the wiki page:

https://github.com/euruko2013/committee/wiki/Venues

damphyr commented 12 years ago

DOH! What @pagojo said.

pagojo commented 12 years ago

Super! Simple, elegant...urls work... :-)

damphyr commented 12 years ago

Started this in greek and then I thought about Gied... Really important point on the venue selection: the surrounding space. When 500+ geeks go out of the room, where do they go? Where's the coffee pot, is there enough space for hanging around and chit-chatting etc. And (since we're not doing in in the Mecca of Food AKA Thessaloniki) what's around the place. Proximity to good lunch opportunities (even if we have to point them out) is essential.

teoulas commented 12 years ago

Places around Gkazi are perfect because it's central and full of coffee shops, snacks and bars. However most are small. The Technopolis auditorium is small (250 ppl), the Benaki museum has 300 seats. The only place with decent capacity is The Hub (500 ppl) but in a weird configuration (check the link)

damphyr commented 12 years ago

A short list of things to be aware of when inquiring about venues:

nikosd commented 12 years ago

Later this week or the next one I will update the wiki with info for "Hellenic World" from direct contacts

pagojo commented 12 years ago

ok and I will have a meeting from the 16th with this event management outfit i spoke with. I promised to write this RFP so the more info we have by then the better. I told them that we will publish the RFP and then we will interview whoever wants to get the job.

Of course before we're in a position to do it we'd need some of the info from the chaps at EuRuKo 2012 :-/

fotos commented 12 years ago

There is a Euruko Venue Cost Breakdown spreadsheet on Google Drive.

This is the spreadsheet we filled in with Sissy and Marian. Everybody who wants access please sent an email (gfotos@gmail.com). The wiki unfortunately is not a good place to organize such info and subsequently communicate it with the event organisers. We have to consolidate all information from the Wiki, google docs, discussions and whatnot to a single (trackable) place and remove or mark them as obsolete since they add noise.

fotos commented 12 years ago

Created a Google Calendar for Euruko Venue Availabilities so we can track venue availabilities and other events, such as keynote speakers availabilities and nearby conferences.

Will try to fill-in venue availabilities (for the venues in the shortlist) ASAP.

A reminder of the Venues in the shortlist:

fotos commented 12 years ago

Hey everybody!

The good news is that we are getting really close on selecting a venue! In the last 2 weeks we collected all the required information (according to the Venue Specs) for each Venue and entered them, in a comparable form, in the Venue Cost Breakdown Spreadsheet.

Right now, we have to vote for the final shortlist. The final shortlist should consist of 3 venues. For these 3 venues, Sissy and Marian will check the availability and report back to us until Wednesday (21/11) so we can finally select the venue that will host Euruko2013! :v:

We agreed (in person) on using the following voting procedure:

Your vote should consist of 3 venues in priority order. e.g.

  1. IME
  2. Palace
  3. Badminton

The venue listed 1st gets :three: points (aka. your 1st preference), the one listed 2nd gets :two: points and the one listed 3rd get :one: point! You can vote for a single venue or two venues if you want, but please don't vote for four venues or cast a conditional vote (if that venue was available I would place it 2nd, etc.). When all votes are cast or time's up I will add up the score on each venue and post the results here (in this issue).

The voting will be held until Sunday 18th November 23:59.

Unfortunately we have only one day (less than 24hrs actually) for voting, because otherwise there won't be enough time to gather up the availability of each venue. This shouldn't be a problem since, for most of us, this venue selection process is mature enough and we can easily pickup the 2 or 3 venues we like.

This :sparkles: final venue shortlist :sparkles: will be forwarded to the girls and they will call each venue, in sequence, and confirm the availability for the following dates (also in priority order):

  1. 24-25/05
  2. 14-15/06
  3. 28-29/06

Then I will add all availability info gathered in the Euruko Venue Availabilities calendar and we'll be able to discuss each venue in the following meeting this Wednesday and make a decision!

Note that for most venues their availability is currently unknown, since we've been asking for availabilities only for the 31/05 - 01/06 weekend, which is currently out of the question due to Matz keynote on RubyKaigi. The only confirmed dates are (as mentioned in the calendar):

Let the voting begin!

UPDATE: Uploaded photos from a couple of Venues in our Flickr account.

PS1. If I made any mistake on the above voting procedure, please correct me ASAP so I can update this comment. PS2. As soon as I get access to the euruko2013 Flickr account, I will upload all photos from each venue so we can refresh our memory about each venue. Will update this comment when this happens (probably tomorrow). DONE PS3. I totally abused emoji on this one! :laughing:

nolamesa commented 12 years ago

One minor correction: Badminton is not available on 21-22/6. If I understood correctly the girls have alrdeady booked for those dates for another event. So the only date that it would be available is 28-29/6.

Other than that here are my votes:

  1. Badminton
  2. ΣΓΤ
  3. ΙΜΕ

2012/11/18 Fotos Georgiadis notifications@github.com

Hey everybody!

The good news is that we are getting really close on selecting a venue! In the last 2 weeks we collected all the required information (according to the Venue Specs http://27) for each Venue and entered them, in a comparable form, in the Venue Cost Breakdown Spreadsheethttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArvcLToTSbWjdEJBdExWM1N0VjVpSGJMWHMwZDJlTnc .

Right now, we have to vote for the final shortlist. The final shortlist should consist of 3 venues. For these 3 venues, Sissy and Marian will check the availability and report back to us until Wednesday (21/11) so we can finally select the venue that will host Euruko2013! [image: :v:]

We agreed (in person) on using the following voting procedure:

Your vote should consist of 3 venues in priority order. e.g.

  1. IME
  2. Palace
  3. Badminton

The venue listed 1st gets [image: :three:] points (aka. your 1st preference), the one listed 2nd gets [image: :two:] points and the one listed 3rd get [image: :one:] point! You can vote for a single venue or two venues if you want, but please don't vote for four venues or cast a conditional vote (if that venue was available I would place it 2nd, etc.). When all votes are cast or time's up I will add up the score on each venue and post the results here (in this issue).

The voting will be held until Sunday 18th November 23:59.

Unfortunately we have only one day (less than 24hrs actually) for voting, because otherwise there won't be enough time to gather up the availability of each venue. This shouldn't be a problem since, for most of us, this venue selection process is mature enough and we can easily pickup the 2 or 3 venues we like.

This [image: :sparkles:] final venue shortlist [image: :sparkles:] will be forwarded to the girls and they will call each venue, in sequence, and confirm the availability for the following dates (also in priority order):

  1. 24-25/05
  2. 14-15/06
  3. 21-22/06

Then I will add all availability info gathered in the Euruko Venue Availabilitieshttps://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=cmm25ljaimnqc6omqa5a4gt8n0%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Europe/Athenscalendar and we'll be able to discuss each venue in the following meeting this Wednesday and make a decision!

Note that for most venues their availability is currently unknown, since we've been asking for availabilities only for the 31/05 - 01/06 weekend, which is currently out of the question due to Matz keynote on RubyKaigi. The only confirmed dates are (as mentioned in the calendar):

  • 24-25/05 IME
  • 24-25/05 ÓôÝãç ÃñáììÜôùí & Ôå÷íþí
  • 21-22/06 Badminton (and Badminton is definitely not available in the timeframe from 15/05 up to 15/06)

Let the voting begin!

PS1. If I made any mistake on the above voting procedure, please correct me ASAP so I can update this comment. PS2. As soon as I get access to the euruko2013 Flickr account, I will upload all photos from each venue so we can refresh our memory about each venue. Will update this comment when this happens (probably tomorrow). PS3. I totally abused emoji on this one! [image: :laughing:]

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/5#issuecomment-10479766.

fotos commented 12 years ago

@nolamesa oops sorry. I was still looking at the old dates. Corrected my post and updated the calendar.... thanks!

nikosd commented 12 years ago 
my_opinion = <<FLAME
I won't vote now, but tomorrow. Before that I want to say something :

As we discussed with the girls the insurance cost is the same for all venues. 
This means that the "risk" for Palace is the same as the risk with any other. 
Given this knowledge I can't understand @nolamesa, how you are suggesting 
a place which costs something less than double the money and not the second 
cheapest one which is almost the same amount of money with the cheapest 
and at the same time it's downtown. You are actually saying that we should start
the company with minus 47.000€ when we can do the same with minus €26.000.

Voting is open - yes. Acceptance of other opinions is a must - yes. 
But since this is not a political party, a worker union or something similar 
I want to make clear that if this is the direction that we take I will probably 
not be part of the company.

Nothing personal, strictly business. As I wouldn't invest in a company 
that I believed has taken a wrong direction or cannot handle money well, 
I won't invest time when I feel that the stakes are higher than what I am 
willing to risk. Additionally I don't want to cause any troubles to the rest of you,
which is exactly what I'm going to do as long as I see things from a 
different perspective.

I'm pretty sure that the incomes will be able to match the 
expenses _eventually_ no matter what and that the conference will highly 
successful. Still, I'm just not interested into making my life more difficult 
till this thing is over or can't sleep at night from the pressure. 

Tomorrow, with peace of mind I will also cast my votes. 
Have a good night until then, and as I said before, this is strictly business,
nothing personal.

--Nikos
FLAME
nolamesa commented 12 years ago

I thought we were just voting at this point but if you want my rational here it is:

The fact that the insurance cost is the same everywhere does not mean anything. The fact that if something goes wrong we are insured does not mean we should have the conference in the middle of a war zone. Firstly because the point is to actually have a conference and secondly because I don't really trust insurance companies in paying back easily and fast enough. I have heard quite a few stories lately about insurance companies.

Regarding IME I believe we could have a last negotiation in terms of cost. Obviously I am not proposing IME over some other cheaper places, but since Fotos said just vote and write no ifs I added IME.

To sum up, at this point we have to vote for 3 venues to ask for dates. For me this is not fair because I would also like the dates for other venues such as Banquet (which we haven't visited sadly). However please tell us your votes and since there is no final decision yet stop flaming. On Nov 18, 2012 2:17 AM, "Nikos Dimitrakopoulos" notifications@github.com wrote:

my_opinion = <<FLAMEI won't vote now, but tomorrow. Before that I want to say something : As we discussed with the girls the insurance cost is the same for all venues. This means that the "risk" for Palace is the same as the risk with any other. Given this knowledge I can't understand @nolamesa, how you are suggesting a place which costs something less than double the money and not the second cheapest one which is almost the same amount of money with the cheapest and at the same time it's downtown. You are actually saying that we should startthe company with minus 47.000€ when we can do the same with minus €26.000. Voting is open - yes. Acceptance of other opinions is a must - yes. But since this is not a political party, a worker union or something similar I want to make clear that if this is the direction that we take I will probably not be part of the company. Nothing personal, strictly business. As I wouldn't invest in a company that I believed has taken a wrong direction or cannot handle money well, I won't invest time when I feel that the stakes are higher than what I am willing to risk. Additionally I don't want to cause any troubles to the rest of you,which is exactly what I'm going to do as long as I see things from a different perspective. I'm pretty sure that the incomes will be able to match the expenses eventually no matter what and that the conference will highly successful. Still, I'm just not interested into making my life more difficult till this thing is over or can't sleep at night from the pressure. Tomorrow, with peace of mind I will also cast my votes. Have a good night until then, and as I said before, this is strictly business,nothing personal. --NikosFLAME

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/5#issuecomment-10480802.

chief commented 12 years ago
  1. Στέγη Γραμμάτων και Τεχνών
  2. Pallas Theater
  3. Badminton

I will not post and others should post any explanation for their votes. One last note: We should see badminton asap Vote with Care

damphyr commented 12 years ago
  1. Badminton
  2. Στέγη Γραμμάτων και Τεχνών
  3. Παλλάς
fotos commented 12 years ago

I kinda agree with @chief on this one. I believe everybody know the pros and cons of each place, the risks associated and we have discussed about each venue extensively in the last 2 months. IMHO there is no need for a rationale but if anybody wants to provide one, feel free to do so. OTOH I don't think it's appropriate to ask other people to provide an explanation for their vote. Just my humble opinion.

I, for one, will backup and help the committee hold the conference on any venue chosen.

Try to keep the discussion focused and civil.

If there are no serious objections, when I can contact the girls, along with the short list, I can ask them to arrange for a Badminton tour (midweek or next weekend).

@nolamesa this is the banquet hall. IMHO its arrangement and atmosphere are not suitable for a technical conference but for a gala instead. A hall that is meaningful to visit at the Megaron is the Trianti hall, albeit a bit expensive.

chief commented 12 years ago

@nolamesa I don't understand your third vote

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@fotos The devil is in the details and everyone should know / remember the details before voting :

These three factors can affect the votes and I believe that in any case we shouldn't vote with personal preferences. This is a business plan and not our next pc, car, motorcycle, house where everyone can choose whatever they want. Numbers and facts are supposed to be our guides and this is more or less what I meant with my previous post. It doesn't matter if I prefer, like, whatever venue X. It's whether venue X is compatible with what we want to do. This is exactly the reason why Benaki and Danaos where left outside. Because they didn't fit our plans. With the same rationale Banquet doesn't fit and in my personal opinion IME also doesn't because of a) the cost and b) the instability. As for a) I would suggest to reconsider it if and only if they change the price which out of scope for this vote.

Having said that here's my list after looking the spreadsheet :

  1. Pallace
  2. Στέγη Γραμμάτων και Τεχνών
  3. Badminton

And some side points :

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@nolamesa it shows up as "3. ÓÃÔ" but I guess it's ΣΓΤ ?

chief commented 12 years ago

@nikosd You are right about the new facts, especially the venue cancellation at IME.

fotos commented 12 years ago

@nikosd you are correct. I was under the impression that everybody knew the new developments and that @damphyr was informed over the phone by @pagojo. Thanks for writing them up and for clarifying a few points as well.

The facts and numbers are solid (remember I was the one that put all that effort to bring comparable numbers on the table) and I'm glad we have them. Nevertheless I still consider this a preference of risk. Since there are multiple factors that come into play here, it's not as objective as you'd like. And there is also personal preference on which venue you feel will have the best impact and be cost effective at the same time. I'm sure not everybody will agree with my opinion. Other people might choose a different way to cast their vote. We are all responsible for our (hard earned) vote.

That's why you vote based on facts but with your heart! :smile:

nolamesa commented 12 years ago

Stupid encodings.. Yes it was ΣΓΤ. Also I changed the order of my votes to stop some of the flaming. But please stop criticizing someone else's votes.

chief commented 12 years ago

@fotos vote! :) :)

apantsiop commented 12 years ago
  1. Badminton
  2. Παλλάς
  3. Στέγη Γραμμάτων & Τεχνών

'nough said

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@nolamesa As I said 2 or 3 times it wasn't a personal attack. I have no problem with you or with anyone else. Quite the opposite, if you take out the pressure that we have the last days I really enjoy your company (all of you). Still, I can't hide that I'm afraid with some of our options and discussions so far and our criteria when voting/selecting. We are going to have similar issues in the future, maybe not that big but still. I want to know that we will be able to judge correctly and with professionalism, not only based on our heart and passions.

nolamesa commented 12 years ago

@nikosd I understand your fears and concerns. I believe everyone involved has some of his own. The point I was trying to make was not personal. In regard to a voting procedure we all need to understand that when someone votes then it is his own right to vote whatever he believes. Trying to change ones vote is actually destroying the whole point of voting.

I don't want to spam you with any more of this. The rest on Wednesday.

Keep voting!

fotos commented 12 years ago

I have uploaded the photos from all the Venues into our Flickr account:

  1. Palace
  2. Badminton (haven't visited this one yet)
  3. ΙΜΕ
  4. Acropol
  5. Στέγη Γραμμάτων και Τεχνών
  6. Acro (which is already out, but anyway...)

Thanks to @apantsiop, @dark5un, Sissy and Marian for the photos from the Venues!

Regardless if you have already casted your vote or not, I urge you to take a look at the Venues again, just to refresh your memory. Sorry for not doing this earlier, couldn't find the time to organize this as well.

@chief I will. Right now I'm working on my accounting / bills. Later in the evening I will devote 1-2 hours to review the material and make up my mind. I have avoided looking at other casted votes and how the vote swings thus far, in order to vote impartially.

@pagojo informed that he will also cast his vote later on in the day due to personal issues.

I have also sent a quick update to Sissy and Marian, that the voting is under way, and that I have uploaded the photos. Also I hinted that we might need to see Badminton this week. I cc'ed @nolamesa.

UPDATE: Added a photo set for Badminton.

teoulas commented 12 years ago

Here's my vote:

  1. ΣΓΤ
  2. Badminton
  3. Παλλάς
fotos commented 12 years ago

After a lot of mind showering (aka. brainstorming), picture glaring and spreadsheet number munching here goes my vote:

  1. Badminton
  2. ΣΓΤ
  3. ΙΜΕ

May Ruby be with us and light our way! :v:

nikosd commented 12 years ago

Who hasn't vote so far?

fotos commented 12 years ago

We are still waiting for votes from:

vvatikiotis commented 12 years ago

_ignore the previous. _

  1. Badmington
  2. ΣΤΓ

I wish Παλλας was on the list but I cannot factor the risks involved.

nikosd commented 12 years ago

I have added a "votes" section on the spreadsheet and updated it with votes so far. We will recheck it in the end so don't worry too much about the numbers now. Just an easy way to get a glimpse of how it's going.

fotos commented 12 years ago

@nikosd no please don't do that... this is not a general spreadsheet for everything, but strictly for the venue costs.

I am keeping the sum the of voting process and will post a comment here when the voting is over. Otherwise you taint the process because whenever someone looks at the costs also looks at the casted votes at the same time. :cry:

petros commented 12 years ago

Sorry guys, I don't have any idea about the venues (haven't visited any) and the email threads were really difficult to follow. I trust you will make the best selection.

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@fotos Did it for me and though it would be better to share it with everyone. Deleting it from the common spreadsheet and keeping it to mine :P

fotos commented 12 years ago

@nikosd ok thanks! Keep it and when I post the results use it for cross checking and making sure I haven't made any mistakes.

pagojo commented 12 years ago
  1. Badminton
  2. ΙΜΕ
  3. ΣΓΤ

Also I'm willing to bet a good round of beers to everyone that the insurance premium for Pallas (if any counter-party underwrites the risk) will be higher compared to these for other venues --in the case it includes clauses for cancellation due to protests etc. of course.

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@fotos Ok

We are still waiting for votes from:

Question 1: @dark5un are you going to vote after all? I haven't completely understood whether you are going to join the company and/or vote or not... If the answer is no/no I would like at least an unofficial vote to know what you are thinking...

Question 2: Sorry, but @dpapan who are you? I'm lost with the usernames since you have no info on your profile...

(updated my doc up-to here with @pagojo votes)

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@pagojo If you are right and they charge us more for Palace, or even worse they don't offer us insurance, then we are going to have a really serious issue with the girls. They explicitly said that it made no difference to the insurance company(ies)...

:/

pagojo commented 12 years ago

@nikosd not at all, Sissy and Marian probably trust the insurance broker they spoke with and probably don't know the mechanics of insurance instruments; I'm not an expert either so we'll see:-) I'm only taking a punt here and even if I'm right it should not affect my attitude towards them (e.g., it could just be that the insurance broker was not bothered to investigate).

btw @dpapan is Dimitris Papanikolaou my biz partner from Thessaloniki who authored the iOS walking routes app (see #7) and I think was added (not by me) to the list prematurely.

apantsiop commented 12 years ago

regarding the insurance, I think if we don't get loud in front of them (us and our big mouths) it won't make a significant difference. If WE insist on bring it up (and especially in front of them) maybe they WILL reconsider and come up with a significantly higher price for some venues

-- Apostolos Pantsiopoulos Software Engineer

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Nikos Dimitrakopoulos < notifications@github.com> wrote:

@pagojo https://github.com/pagojo If you are right and the charge us more for Palace, or even worse they won't offer us insurance, then we are going to have a really serious issue with the girls. They explicitly said that it made no difference to the insurance company(ies)...

:/

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/5#issuecomment-10490198.

nikosd commented 12 years ago

@pagojo @apantsiop I agree with both of you

P.S. : So, shall we remove @dpapan from the "owners" team?

dpapan commented 12 years ago

@nikosd I'm @pagojo 's business partner but I live in Thessaloniki which is why you haven't seen or heard much of me.

Re: venues, I haven't seen or visited any and haven't followed any discussions about them, so I can't really say. Like @amiridis said I trust you guys will make best choice.

On 18 Νοε 2012, at 21:24, Nikos Dimitrakopoulos notifications@github.com wrote:

@fotos Ok

We are still waiting for votes from:

@dark5un @dpapan Question 1: @dark5un are you going to vote after all? I haven't completely understood whether you are going to join the company and/or vote or not... If the answer is no/no I would like at least an unofficial vote to know what you are thinking...

Question 2: Sorry, but @dpapan who are you? I'm lost with the usernames since you have no info on your profile...

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.