Video & audio support

[damphyr]

I don't know if event management companies handle the audiovisual part (see #8) so here's a placeholder/reminder for that. It so happens that most of my friends are either sound engineers or photographers and video professionals of the lets-stage-a-concert variety.

I've already made the initial inquiries, hopefully I will have a quote (or two) for 2 video cameras and audio console support (setup, recording and editing) by the end of next week (so 6th July). This should serve as a cost guideline.

Don't know if we should also have one photographer or just snap shots ourselves. If anyone thinks there's need for more or less, put it in the comments.

[nikosd]

Recovering this issue from the graveyard...

1. Please write here the status update regarding the video recording inquires that you have done
2. Does anyone have an objection to get in touch with confreaks today and ask them if they are willing to come to Greece? I can do it within 5' in an informal way.

[nolamesa]

+1

[nikosd]

Ok, I will send them an email now.

[vvatikiotis]

+1 for confreaks. As for the video recording, panos, john and vassilis are on top of this. Next week we'll be ready to pick a company.

On Saturday, April 13, 2013, Nikos Dimitrakopoulos wrote:

Recovering this issue from the graveyard...

1. Please write here the status update regarding the video recording inquires that you have done
2. Does anyone have an objection to get in touch with confreakshttp://www.confreaks.com/today and ask them if they are willing to come to Greece? I can do it within 5' in an informal way.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/9#issuecomment-16334624 .

[nikosd]

@dark5un and @damphyr can we have somewhere the offers from the 3rd parties that we have talked with so far and additionally some form of "specs" in order to be able:

a) reuse the specs and ask for a quote from confreaks b) be able to compare the various offers this Wednesday

?

Thanks!

[vvatikiotis]

I think it would be best if John, Panos and Vassilis pick up the confreaks lead and continue from here. Separation of tasks. They will come with 2 option on Wednesday, give us their input and we can decide which one we do business with. Or it's their decision if we don't want to get involved.

Vassilis Vatikiotis Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)

On Sunday, 14 April, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Nikos Dimitrakopoulos wrote:

@dark5un (https://github.com/dark5un) and @damphyr (https://github.com/damphyr) can we have somewhere the offers from the 3rd parties that we have talked with so far and additionally some form of "specs" in order to be able: a) reuse the specs and ask for a quote from confreaks b) be able to compare the various offers this Wednesday
? Thanks!

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/euruko2013/committee/issues/9#issuecomment-16348396).

[dark5un]

1. As far as I know confreaks do the recordings themselves. I believe that it is too late to open up more options at this time. If confreaks option was on the table 3 weeks ago I would consider it.
2. As discussed 2 meetings ago the team that handles the task will provide a final outcome this Wednesday.

[nikosd]

@dark5un I would appreciate it if I was told so before contacting them :( What shall I do now, tell them "oops, I take it back"? Maybe wait and see at least their initial offering so we can compare it with the ones that you have? Anyway, let's see whether they will reply soon and we decide then, huh?

[dark5un]

nm. what is done is done. I just dont want to delay any longer. time is pressing and we have other things to attend also.

[nikosd]

Here's the offer for Confreaks (in less than 3 non-working days :D): https://docs.google.com/a/euruko2013.org/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvEY0z9fAwY9dGRXekkwZUNURWpQcnd0QmlYRHZaWnc&usp=sharing

[nikosd]

And here are some clarifications from them:

This is some additional detail on what we provide; for each track there will be: 1 - manned HD camera (used for primary speaker(s) coverage) 1 - wide shot HD camera (used for backup and synchronization with slides) 1 - Hi-res Slide Recorder that goes in between the presenters laptop and the projector (records hi-resolution output of exactly what is seen during the presentation, including, slides, videos, live coding, etc…) 1 - Audio recorder that takes an auxiliary out from the house sound system to provide a crisp clean audio track

In post production we will add a conference title slide or motion graphic depending on what you prefer and what graphic resources are available. We can add one or more sponsor recognition slides, depending on how you've sold sponsorships. We then add in a presentation title and presenter slide.

For the keynote presentations depending on content we'll spend more time in post production and determine best transitions between speaker dominance vs slide dominance, for an example see: http://confreaks.com/videos/860-railsconf2012-keynote-simplicity-matters - depending on the density of the information on the slides will determine whether we bring them into a larger perspective.

For the rest of the talks we typically decide on a set position for presenter and slides, usually with the slides being larger, and then we don't transition dominance during the presentation.

If you agree to release the videos under a creative commons license (presenters maintain their copyright on materials), then we provide a 25% discount on the video services.

We include estimates for travel, freight, and accommodations, no other expenses are involved.

We typically take a 50% deposit at the time you commit to our services. The 50% balance is due after all of the talk videos have been produced and delivered to you or posted on the internet, depending on your choice. If for any reason there are technical difficulties we provide a reduction in charges prorated for the videos that are not delivered, this is rare.

For redundancy the slides are recorded with the hi-res recorder, and the 2nd camera. Audio is captured to both camera's and to the audio recording device, and the speaker is on the primary camera and the 2nd camera. So all aspects of the presentation are recorded in two or more places/format.

Turn around time for videos is typically 14-21 days.

[chief]

παιδιά το συμβόλαιο που παρουσιάστηκε από τον @pagojo είναι απαράδεκτο μιας και είναι ΔΙΠΛΑΣΙΑ η τιμή από αυτή που μας είχε παρουσιαστεί. Αν δεν διευκρινιστεί το θέμα μέχρι αύριο προτείνω να τρέξουμε με την confreaks. Τι λέτε?

[damphyr]

Well the livemedia.gr offer is also on the table and it's the most cost effective to date.

[nolamesa]

Can you provide the cost here? Also @nikosd can you provide the latest cost of confreaks?

[nikosd]

I didn't get a "latest" cost because I told them that we had an offer of about 2K and he replied he can't beat that :/

I'm thinking and I will get back to you once I have something better in mind

[dark5un]

$6,370 confreaks cost (with the 25% discount included if we use creative commons lisense... which is still high...) sry for deleting your comment chief...

[chief]

@dark5un that means 3 678.00139 euros ? (with the discount)

[dark5un]

No... I rephrased sry... το δις εξαμαρτείν ουκ ανδρός σοφού ("To commit the same sin twice [is] not [a sign] of a wise man.")

[nikosd]

Now, some things:

1. I can write something to confreaks and ask them if their offer is still valid and if it can be done better
2. I will ask them whether in this price livestreaming is provided
3. I have already started checking prices for doing the stream ourselves and it can get lower than the 1600€ vdel asks (http://new.livestream.com/plans)
4. We can consider having 2 cams instead of 3
5. We will vote again with the new prices

Sad but true we just went 2-3 weeks backwards on this from a single mistake done from 9 people. Yelling doesn't help and after all it's not the end of the world.

[dark5un]

Guys there was an alternative as @damphyr said. We where between the livemedia and vdel and we chose vdel without noticing the daily cost (my bad I am afraid - it was too good to be true idd). So as the cost of livemedia is not that bad - in fact it is close to vdel can we please consider livemedia again? Unless you have a better idea. Livemedia offer was 2730 euros if they could be sponsors with afrodite benefits... please check it out yourselves just in case.

[dark5un]

@nikosd nice dog btw...

[apantsiop]

I agree with @dark5un . We can struggle with Confreaks (but someone has to make time without stealing time from his tasks) or we can go with livemedia which gave us a good overall impression.

[nolamesa]

Come on guys it will not cost us anything to send an email to them, if @nikosd cannot do it, I can write a draft. Btw what is the livemedia cost?

[damphyr]

I can make a phone call to livemedia tomorrow and ask if the offer stands. I would assume though that it does. The rest I think will be easily handled when I get back to Thessaloniki.

[apantsiop]

@nolamesa 3900

IF we give them Aphrodite benefits + promo spots on presos breaks it goes down to 2730.

[vvatikiotis]

Raizop talk to livemedia ASAP! We need an answer!

[nikosd]

My status update: I forwarded a bunch of questions to N21 regarding the offer from Badminton and I have just created a test account on https://new.livestream.com. For the first I will probably meet the Badminton guy during the weekend and for the later I will trial it until Saturday.

Cheers

[nikosd]

Badminton

We spoke with the Badminton representative yesterday and he was really cool and helpful. The plan is to use our own livestream.com account (see next section) so we can do whatever we want and they will handle all the production/recording/mixing stuff.

I wrote down and sent the semi-formal specs and we are now waiting a final offer with 1, 2 or 3 cameras scenarios.

Regarding the 3 cameras he pointed out the following two things:

• that we can't actually record and stream the audience if we haven't said so on the terms & conditions before the ticket sale
• that 3 cameras are probably too much if the above is true (I agree with him)

Livestream.com

I tried it and I liked it. It simply works and it has a bunch of nice side features. The cost is either $50 for a month subscription or $350. What you get with $350 is actually the option to embed it on your site and some additional moderation. In any case it's cheap since it has unlimited audience, unlimited streaming time etc. I doesn't even compare with the 1600€ required from VDEL.

For details check here: http://new.livestream.com/plans

What's next

I suggest we do the following thing:

1. We ask VDEL if the offer stands broken down. That is, if we can take for example 2 cameras and skip the streaming part and stream it through our own livestream.com account.
2. We ask Livemedia the same, even though they don't mention an explicit "streaming" cost.
3. We fill in a table of costs and mix and match what we want. I believe this way we will be able to get the best offer with the best terms.

Please confirm that you agree with the plan (today if possible) so @pagojo or @dark5un can contact VDEL and @damphyr Livemedia.

[apantsiop]

+1 from me

[nolamesa]

I love the plan! The only thing that worries me is that it sucks that we cannot film the audience... Can we crosscheck that with our lawyer and see if there could be a workaround?

[pagojo]

On 21 May 2013, at 21:27, nolamesa wrote:

I love the plan! The only thing that worries me is that it sucks that we cannot film the audience... Can we crosscheck that with our lawyer and see if there could be a workaround?

I agree with @nolamesa we gotta test this theory first

[nikosd]

@vvatikiotis can you check it out with the lawyer please?

[vvatikiotis]

Will do today, but regardless of his answer (I don't think he spesialises in privacy issues) I think we should be cautions with this.

[fotos]

We can amend our ToU and write it as a note to the latest email we are going to send, something along the lines of:

"We have slightly updated our ToU with a tiny bit that will allow us to take shots the audience. The filming will not be personally identifiable. If you have concerns regarding this please contact us at info@euruko2013.org."

And we add in the ToU the standard text that appears on events (concerts and what not) about filming.

No lawyer involved, but feel free to ask him too. Most likely he will agree.

[vvatikiotis]

I don't think a contract is amendable. Our Privacy Policy states that

"Euruko2013 may update this Privacy Policy from time to time. In any case of a significant change to this Privacy Policy, we will alert the participants via email."

but I think we are still in the grey. A PP update cannot infringe on ppl's rights, depending on how you define them, depending on where and when and another gazillion reasons.

I'm not against a crowd facing camera but it has to be operated under explicit rules, which will have to be in a written agreement with the filming crew. We shouldn't be liable for this.

[fotos]

@vvatikiotis I proposed exactly what the PP states. In case of a significant change, such as this one, we notify them via email. I don't like vague stuff. Can you write a sketch of these explicit rules you'd like to operate the cameras under? Or contact the lawyer and write here his opinion. Otherwise let's go with the common sense option I proposed above.

[vvatikiotis]

About common sense

• mine is unique, so is everyone else's.
• when it comes to law, common sense takes second seat.
• @fotos I understand and I agree with what you are saying, but the Law doesn't. Possibly.

I spoke with the lawyer. He needs to check it more thoroughly, tomorrow.

• Legally, if cameras need to be setup we need a permit from the Privacy Authority
• Zooming on faces is an issue! Needs to be checked.
• Delegates have to be notified (email). IMO, this raises the issue of "I didn't receive your email'. There's a level of unpredictability.

I spoke with Sissy as well

• generally they avoid filming the crowd.
• because delegates belong to community they generally don't have an issue.
• If we go ahead with our plan of a crowd facing camera:
  • we must email everyone about this and the following point.
  • if someone disagrees, he/she should say it when registering.
  • we must reserve a section in the theater where people who have stated that they don't want to be flimed will be seated there. If they don't then it's their responsibility.

Logistics creep up...

[fotos]

@vvatikiotis now this is the reply I like to see. Thorough and insightful. Thanks for that. Given the circumstances and if it really is as complex as described above then we can forget about filming the audience. Or we can "generally avoid it" as Sissy put it. ;-)

[damphyr]

Link to livemedia offer https://docs.google.com/a/euruko2013.org/file/d/1lk5A9LYkrhWF26WkjWofuyJe5OoGbq-nuGWFPKgQ1xuMqD2TUDzh22DK0iY4/edit?usp=sharing

[pagojo]

From VDEL (latest communication)

---

Hello again,

Yes you could provide you with only streaming services, or only recording services.

The cost of the streaming for each day is 400¤. So, for the 2 days, the total cost for streaming is 800¤.

So, the cost for recording/mixing , without streaming, becomes:

2.500¤ 3 cameras (2 static, 1 wireless) 2.200¤ - 3 cameras (all static) 1.200¤ - 2 cameras (static)

(the above prices are for the 2 days)

Best,

Nicole

---

[nikosd]

@pagojo: you are the man, you are the man!!! :smiley:

I will call Badminton today to push them to send us their offer too. @damphyr any news from your side?

[damphyr]

Sorry guys, I just came off the plane. Back home and getting back up to speed. Will attempt to catch up later today.

[nolamesa]

Guys can we have a final list that we can compare and get a decision? I guess we should be able to decide on this by tomorrow.

[pagojo]

From Nicole at VDEL

---

Hello John,

Well... we have the possibility to do this, but since we are the Greek representatives of Ustream, we won't have the responsibility of the channel's features (logos on the player/ads/pre-rolls/post-rolls, etc) If you manage your channel properties and you give us the embed code where we should stream, it is ok.

Best,

Nicole

2013/5/30 John Pagonis pagojo@euruko2013.org Good morning Nicole :-)

One last (I hope) clarification.

In the case you provide us with the recording/mixing services can you interface to Livestream.com for the streaming? We're interested in using Livestream.com for our streaming.

cheers

/pagojo

---

[nikosd]

The final excel can be found here.

Best options are:

1. 2 cameras, using our Livestream account (not including post event montage): 1.200€ from VDEL
2. 2 cameras, using their Ustream account (not including post event montage): 2.000€ from VDEL
3. 2 cameras, using our Livestream account and post event montage: 2.000€ from Livemedia

Based on these, I would go (in order of preference) for:

1. 2 Not the absolutely cheapest but we have a more "guaranteed" results since they will be using their tools.
2. 1 Absolutely cheapest but the downside is that we have the overhead of having to lead the project ourselves and make sure that their "capture" is streamed live correctly with logos and stuff like that.
3. 3 Not exceptional at any point but good overall offer.

If you have further questions do them here so @pagojo and @damphyr can help.

[apantsiop]

Can we vote?

If we can :

2, 1, 3

The montage can trouble us later, after the event.

(I think you mixed up you preferences, 1 is the cheapest or... is it a markdown thing?)

[nikosd]

Yeap, it's a markdown issue - I meant 2,1,3

[pagojo]

I am for 2, 1, 3 as well, modulo a clarification and agreement that whoever is the supplier will be able to handle the sponsor banner and video spots. Talking of which we need to move lightning fast now so please voice your opinion now!

[damphyr]

I'd like to point out that post-editing is most of the work in this. Most of the time and most of the cost as well. Which means that the livemedia offer comes out cheaper since it includes it(and interfacing with livestream from their software is already cleared up - I checked it myself)

[fotos]

I vote: 2, 1, 3

I care more about the result on the days of the event (sponsor logos appearing properly, mixing between cameras, direction, setup, etc). and the overall streaming end result than the post-production montage of the event highlights. If we have the money, the time and the courage we can also do it later.