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Saruman chant start of FOTR disc 2 #3

Open genekellyjr opened 1 year ago

genekellyjr commented 1 year ago

0:10:19.503 to 0:10:22.144

<i>Wake up cruel...
(Cuiva nwalca...)</i>

0:10:23.176 to 0:10:24.050

<i>...Redhorn! 
(...Carnirassë!)</i>

It definitely starts as cuiva nwalca, but it's so echoey that it's very hard to tell if it ends with Carnirassë. I decided it did based on it finishing the phrase.

Also, I think all other parts aren't identifiable enough to break up the fellowship's mountain jaunt dialog.

After seeing https://subscene.com/subtitles/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-fellowship-of-the-ring/english/1913639 I was able to place earlier dialog:

Pretty confident in that, it's odd he goes right into Taltuva ñotto-carinnar! but it's 100% carinnar at the end. And the sentence still works.

j-teuber commented 11 months ago

http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm#spell https://tolkienlistsearch.herokuapp.com/message/5e9c35c83c89229f99f27580

genekellyjr commented 11 months ago

@j-teuber the message you found was great! It also references issue #5 (Gimli's lament) and supports that part of the tranlsation! The enduring question there is the word "malur" which replaces "thatur" (stars) in the "known" translation.

Do you feel "It shall fall upon the enemy-heads! (Taltuva ñotto-carinnar!)" is a good translation of that piece of the whole phrase?

And do you feel you could listen to the scene and confirm I've ascribed the Quenya phrases correctly to them being said? Here's the phrases currently in place:

3
00:09:28,977 --> 00:09:30,847
[SARUMAN CHANTS IN QUENYA]: <i> Wake up...
(Cuiva...)</i>

4
00:09:31,109 --> 00:09:32,979
[SARUMAN CHANTS, ECHOING]: <i> ...cruel...
(...nwalca...)</i>

5
00:09:33,351 --> 00:09:35,221
[SARUMAN CHANTS]: <i> ...Redhorn!
(...Carnirassë!)</i>

6
00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:39,429
[SARUMAN CHANTS]: <i> It shall fall upon the enemy-heads!
(Taltuva ñotto-carinnar!)</i>

7
00:09:59,589 --> 00:10:02,557
[CHANTS IN SINDARIN] Sleep Caradhras, be still, lie still...
(Losto Caradhras, sedho, hodo...

8
00:10:02,581 --> 00:10:04,128
...hold!
(...nuitho!)

9
00:10:04,152 --> 00:10:10,428
SARUMAN [CHANTS IN QUENYA]: <i> Wake up cruel Redhorn!
(Cuiva nwalca Carnirassë!)</i>

10
00:10:10,918 --> 00:10:14,076
May your blood-stained horn...
(Nai yarvaxëa rasselya...)

11
00:10:14,571 --> 00:10:17,839
...shall fall upon the enemy-heads!
(...taltuva ñotto-carinnar!)

12
00:10:19,503 --> 00:10:22,144
<i>Wake up cruel...
(Cuiva nwalca...)</i>

13
00:10:23,176 --> 00:10:24,050
<i>...Redhorn!
(...Carnirassë!)</i>