Gimli dwarven lament FOTR disc2

[genekellyjr]

0:26:01,226 --> 0:26:06,955 [GIMLI IN KHUZDÛL]: (Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi.)

I decided he was saying the last bit, per #38 in: https://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm#gimli

They have him saying a lot more than he says, where did they get it from?

Listening a lot it sounded to match the 2nd sentence more than the 1st. Is that right tho

Extra dwarven words: https://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_otherinscr.htm#khuzdul_salo

https://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_archives_4.htm

[genekellyjr]

Foumd https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/what-precisely-easterlings-chant.20821/post-575920 while looking for easterling stuff.

As the company enters the chamber and Gandalf takes the Book of Mazarbul in his hands, Gimli prays:

Kilmin malur ni zaram kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram… Balin tazlifi.

aaaand contrary to what half the world believes, we know its meaning. It is a modified fragment of a song that Philippa Boyens, producer, asked Salo:

Kilmîn thatur ni zâram kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram. [Durin](https://www.thetolkienforum.com/wiki/Durin) tazlifi.

The differences are: malur instead of thatur, and Balin instead of Durin. The meaning of the original sentence is:

A crown of stars in the cold, black waters of the Kheled-zâram. Durin sleeps.

It’s been extracted from the lyrics composed for the Moria Theme: ... Kilmîn thatur ni zâram kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram. Durin tazlifi. A crown of stars in the cold, black waters of the Kheled-zâram. Durin sleeps.

Which gives a credible translation.

Updated to just cover the entire phrase Kilmin malur ni zaram kalil ra narag. Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi. despite me not being able to make it out (peeps seem very confident it is there in its entirety), and added in the translation: Kilmîn malur ni zâram kalil ra narag. Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi. A crown of stars in the cold, black waters of the Kheled-zâram. Balin sleeps.

Kilmîn thatur ni zâram kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram. Durin tazlifi. A crown of stars in the cold, black waters of the Kheled-zâram. Durin sleeps.

In need of a credible translation of malur, for now leaving the translation as is (crown of stars, despite the malur). I am assuming thatur == stars, may be wrong.

[genekellyjr]

To recap: This is the current translation.

22
00:25:58,340 --> 00:26:01,201
GIMLI, SOFTLY [IN KHUZDÛL]: <i> A crown of stars in the waters...
(Kilmîn malur ni zâram...)</i>

23
00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:06,955
<i>...cold and black, of the Kheled-zâram... Balin sleeps.
(...kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi.)</i>

malur is the hold out. In the available translation, I am guessing thatur is "stars" and has been replaced with malur. I have it saying "stars" right now - but obviously malur ain't thatur. The Return to Moria game has Khuzdul work - maybe it can shed some light? Need some time for translations from it to come out (if someone takes the time, of course).

[genekellyjr]

Per https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/khuzdul-translation-help-for-malur.31755/ and with the help of Elhath Reborn malur is likely "rust".

In https://web.archive.org/web/20160320170953/http://midgardsmal.com/category/khuzdul/, David Salo - guy who cooked up the language (I'm sure there was more thought put into it than that phrasing, of course) - mentions "loan" words.

So I looked for Quenya words that are similar in form to malur and found malo which is rust. Seems pretty good. As noted, Gimli holds Balin in high regard - so why would rust be chosen? I guess to exemplify that the kingdom of Moria has collapsed - but whomst knows (ok, someone might).

There's also “gold” as “malta” in Quenya or “malt” in Sindarin but https://web.archive.org/web/20161012082341/http://midgardsmal.com/neo-khuzdul-glossary already has gold defined from apparently a similar time period, so it's unlikely it would be gold.

I confirmed thatur is indeed "stars" as well https://web.archive.org/web/20161023230125/http://midgardsmal.com/durins-song-the-rest/. The "of" is part of some other word.

The last unfinished point yet is that malur should really be "rusts" since thatur of the same form gets you "stars", plural. 🤷 New info must surface to confirm or deny "rust" as the likely translation.

It will be now:

22
00:25:58,340 --> 00:26:01,201
GIMLI, SOFTLY [IN KHUZDÛL]: <i> A crown of rust in the waters...
(Kilmîn malur ni zâram...)</i>

23
00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:06,955
<i>...cold and black, of the Kheled-zâram... Balin sleeps.
(...kalil ra narag, Kheled-zâram... Balin tazlifi.)</i>

In the next release.