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gravitystorm / openstreetmap-carto

A general-purpose OpenStreetMap mapnik style, in CartoCSS
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Differentiating sport infrastructure (like pitches) by type of sport #844

Open matthijsmelissen opened 10 years ago

matthijsmelissen commented 10 years ago

Currently all sport fields are shown in the same style. It is very difficult to distinguish the different sports. Furthermore there are good sport icon sets out there: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Sport_icon Comparing the different olympic pictograms http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/24/sports/olympics/pictograms-interactive.html I suggest to take the icon sets of Olympic games 1972 (munich) http://olympic-museum.de/pictograms/Picto1972.htm adopted to the constraints of 16px

See also https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3159.

HolgerJeromin commented 10 years ago

For some sport (basketball, football, rugby, soccer, tennis) there are working line renderings available. This link show soccer and tennis lines:

http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19&lat=50.77898&lon=6.0707&layers=B0000000FFFFFFF

The code is here: https://github.com/cquest/osmfr-cartocss

polarbearing commented 10 years ago

The line rendering itself is fine and self-explanatory, though I would prefer not to add plenty new colours to the main map.

Rovastar commented 10 years ago

I think a longer term goal (no pun intended) is for the osm fr style.

Icons might be nice but most of the well known ones will be copyrighted/trademarked.

Rovastar commented 10 years ago

Oh meant to say the line style is for v3.x as it will require adding new stuff to the database.

boothym commented 8 years ago

How about adding icons for the most used sports to begin with? Soccer, tennis, baseball, basketball, all have good icons that can be used from iD editor's icon set. Just like iD the icon can be put in the middle of the pitch.

https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/soccer-24.svg https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/tennis-24.svg https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/baseball-24.svg https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/basketball-24.svg

kocio-pl commented 8 years ago

Unfortunately they all are 24px, while we use just 14px - this is huge difference. If you want to see how they would look in this style, try to rescale them and save as PNG.

boothym commented 8 years ago

I linked to them because I thought you'd want the largest svg size available, but here's what they look like at 14px: tennis soccer baseball basketball

There's also https://github.com/mapbox/maki/tree/master/icons with more stick figures instead of the bat/ball icons.

kocio-pl commented 8 years ago

I'm surprised, they look quite nice and are perfectly recognizable! That's the power of skilled designer probably. =}

Still we need to decide if we want to use icons or field markings.

Wuzzy2 commented 8 years ago

I'm very strongly for icons. Field markings are poorly recognizable and potentionally ambigious. Also, the field markings are not actually based on OSM data so they are basically lies, stricly spoken. The real field markings might either not exist at all or they are just wrong. For example, not all soccer fields actually have field markings, especially small ones. Also, the field markings will be hard to be understood for people not knowing a particular sport very well. Also, field markings do not fit into the “tradition” of the default OSM style of only showing what's actually there in the data, rather than “interpreting” stuff into the data which simply isn't there.

On the other hand, icons are WAY more recognizable, even by people not knowing awfully much about the sport. Also, the default style already uses icons for everything, so this just seems consequent. :-)

HolgerJeromin commented 8 years ago

For example, not all soccer fields actually have field markings, especially small ones.

Maps are no rendered satellite images.

Also, the field markings will be hard to be understood for people not knowing a particular sport very well. On the other hand, icons are WAY more recognizable, even by people not knowing awfully much about the sport.

As an counter example there are many racket sports. I am not sure which is meant by the tennis icon from boothym. But the line marking is pretty unique.

Also, field markings do not fit into the “tradition” of the default OSM style of only showing what's actually there in the data, rather than “interpreting” stuff into the data which simply isn't there.

Think of the markings as a big icon :-P

Wuzzy2 commented 8 years ago

For example, not all soccer fields actually have field markings, especially small ones.

Maps are no rendered satellite images.

Exactly. And I think field markings try way too hard to look “authentic”. Under the same logic, OSM could attempt to draw road markings on roads. I know, I know, field markings look cool, but they are not exactly useful for a map when you actually want to read information from it. Icons are more abstract, therefore a more logical choice for a map.

As an counter example there are many racket sports. I am not sure which is meant by the tennis icon from boothym. But the line marking is pretty unique.

I guess the tennis icon stands for “tennis”. ;-) You already said “tennis” by yourselves! xD Also because this is probably the most well-known one. Yes, it's probably hard to draw an icon for every sport in existance but OSM could just start with the most common ones while adding icons later. Sports without an icon could maybe get a generic icon or no icon.

The homepage really should improve its map key because the default style has so many different icons, but almost no icon is actually explained. :-( In fact, the map key is very, VERY incomplete (sadly). Creating a key for the icons would (hopefully) not be too hard (it just needs to be done). But creating a key for the markings or all sport pitches would be overkill and therefore it would be pretty unlikely to happen. I fear that Average Joe will fail to recognize the lion's share of possible sport pitches.

Think of the markings as a big icon :-P

Pfff, this is weak. The markings are nothing like icons. Icons are not rotated and have a fixed size and are always put on a point. Markings can be rotated, are made of lines and differ in size and take an area.

boothym commented 8 years ago

As an counter example there are many racket sports. I am not sure which is meant by the tennis icon from boothym. But the line marking is pretty unique.

Other racket sports have slightly different rackets (e.g. longer handle in badminton) and most of them are played indoors. If you see a pitch in OSM with a racket and ball, and it's not inside a building it's highly likely to be tennis (given 230,000 courts have been mapped!).

Anyway, the main thing is that I think icons should be added as soon as possible for the most important sports in OSM. They presumably are easier to add than markings and would definitely improve the map styling.

boothym commented 8 years ago

Is someone able to render these so we can see what they look like? @kocio-pl ?

kocio-pl commented 8 years ago

What should the colors be (re)used then?

I hope pitch color will be made less dominant soon, but green symbols with green label could be hardly readable.

boothym commented 8 years ago

I was thinking basically how they are just now - dark gray/black (with transparency)?

Hufkratzer commented 7 years ago

Can you please also add an icon for riding arenas (tagged leisure=pitch + sport=equestrian :horse:) ?

The taginfo statistics for leisure=pitch + sport=* is: soccer; 276k tennis: 234k baseball: 91k basketball: 76k multi: 32k golf: 23k (but golf courses shall not be tagged as pitches) equestrian: 15k :horse: volleyball: 12k athletics: 7k

The icon may be: a) horse shoe b) horse head :horse: <- github horse head c) horse without rider d) horse with rider :horseracing: <- github horse rider_

For a) and b) here are two possibilities shown together with the other icons: hshoe-14 from http://publicdomainvectors.org/en/free-clipart/Horseshoe-silhouette-vector-graphics/14822.html hhead14-1 from https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1_Cav_Shoulder_Insignia.svg mysoccer-14 from https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/soccer-24.svg mytennis-14 from https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/tennis-24.svg mybaseball-14 from https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/baseball-24.svg mybasketball-14 from https://github.com/bhousel/maki/blob/mb-pages/src/basketball-24.svg

For c) and d) I was not able yet to produce a good looking 14px png export from any of the free svg sources I have found. Perhaps my fault, I am not an experienced icon designer. But I nevertheless wanted to submit this request already. Here are some horse icons:

Also please take into account that pitches can be indoors (in a hall or under a roof), in these cases markings can not be used, but icons probably can.

imagico commented 7 years ago

We would need to be careful here because it might not be clear what feature the icon applies to, i.e. the pitch itself or the facility the pitch is part of.

Also note the horse as a symbol - no matter if with a rider or not - can mean a lot of different things and does not necessarily imply something sport related.

Hufkratzer commented 7 years ago

Not every riding arena (equestrian pitch) is part of a riding facility or anything similar, like also not every other kind of pitch is part of a sports centre, leisure park or so. Especially in these cases it would be helpful if the map would show what kind of pitch it is.

I agree that it would be good if the icon would look related to equestrian sports, perhaps a jumping horse, but I don't know if that can be done in a 14px icon.

boothym commented 7 years ago

@kocio-pl I know I've asked before but any chance the icons I posted could be rendered?

I noticed there is a 0.3 opacity white outline to the black icon in the svg which I had to remove first. Preview I created in photoshop: tennis

kocio-pl commented 7 years ago

Sorry, I'm currently busy with many other problems, which I think are more important.

It's not clear what people would decide, but the best chances would be to create 14 px versions of icons (leisure green is probably better than black - and we already have golf icon), create the code, test them and make a PR with renderings. Could you try to do it?

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

I was looking at Taginfo sport=* key list to choose which tags can have an special icon in combination with leisure=sport_centre / leisure=pitch . It's very interesting, beacuse there are some sports which I even didn't hear about earlier (eg. netball or gaelic games), more popular than eg. boxing or car racing. I think we should prepare a list of sport=* tags which we want special icon for, and for the rest use just generic leisure-green dot for leisure=sports_centre (see: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2930) and current "blank" leisure=pitch rendering.

Which sport centres and pitches you would like to see with a special icon?

HolgerJeromin commented 6 years ago

Line markings are still not rejected #1126

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

@HolgerJeromin We need sport icons for pitches anyway:

Examples: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/488863988 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/454349719

1 Unfortunely, most of mappers draw these "wild pitches" as leisure=pitch areas, which is wrong because theirs outlines are just imaginary and false.

Line markings propably won't resolve it (but of course we should try them on test renderings, besides of icons).

HolgerJeromin commented 6 years ago

there are also examples of linear ways mapped between two soccer goals,

This is not documented https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dpitch

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

As tagging pitches as nodes and ways was always allowed by infobox, but not described, I've added some tagging instructions and examples: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dpitch

So now it's documented.

Adamant36 commented 6 years ago

@Tomasz-W any chance you could come up with usable icons for basketball and tennis? It would help a lot with mistagging if they could have icons.

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

@Adamant36 rescaled Maki icons:

I'll upload my alternative icons proposals later.

matthijsmelissen commented 6 years ago

Before we go into detail, do we think it would be desirable to add icons for specific sports?

kocio-pl commented 6 years ago

I agree. This is old question, but still relevant.

wmyrda commented 6 years ago

As former pro player I may be biassed here, but IMHO On z19 or z18, maybe even z17 they should not hurt anyone.

Related to that if someone is looking closely than on z13 and definitely with no issue on z15 could easily spot stadiums https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/50.0288/21.9980

As I live in the city I know where the sport gym for ~5000 spectators is, but could anyone else know looking at the above link? My guess is that sport icons could help with it.

boothym commented 6 years ago

Before we go into detail, do we think it would be desirable to add icons for specific sports?

Seems to fit all of the criteria that applies to other icons. Soccer, tennis, baseball and basketball are all used at least 113,000 times. It would also discourage people from tagging soccer pitches as football.

The only negative I can see is that sport=soccer;rugby_union or sport=cricket;australian_football would not render any icon - unless it's possible to explode by semi-colon and then render two or three icons together?

HolgerJeromin commented 6 years ago

As former pro player I may be biassed here, but IMHO On z19 or z18, maybe even z17 they should not hurt anyone.

Line markings hurts even less as they does not collide. Screenshot zoom 17: image

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

I'll repeat my question: What other sports you would like to see a special icon with for pitches?

meased commented 6 years ago

american_football is very popular in the US.

I like the idea of line markings, but I think it breaks down with baseball diamonds. It would be very difficult to get the orientation right and will probably end up with some strange renderings.

FYI, Apple Maps is evidently trying to do this: https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/ apple-maps-sports-building-parking

Adamant36 commented 6 years ago

I've been dealing with names on the map going against the naming rule a lot lately. Especially as it relates to sports pitches and miss tagging like name=tennis court, name=basketball court, etc. I think adding icons so people can spot tell what kind of court they are on the map by the icon would solve a lot of that.

@Tomasz-W outside of the main ones 9pin and 10pin obviously. Archery, badminton, volleyball/beach volleyball, billiards, canoe, chess (but got rejected already), equestrian, golf, handball, horseshoes, judo (could adapt its already used symbol), rowing (same symbol as canoeing?), running, scuba diving, shooting, skateboard, table tennis, yoga.

@meased either the French or the German style already has line markings. So it would be semi easy to adapt. I think there's already an issue here for it too. It would be interesting to know how Apple is approaching it.

meased commented 6 years ago

The french style did not solve this issue, they just omitted baseball line markings:

pitches

The football and soccer pitches have line markings, but baseball does not. (They also screwed up the orientation for football and soccer and frankly, it looks terrible...)

Adamant36 commented 6 years ago

@meased My bad. It worked for the few pitches I tried it on. So I thought they had. I agree that it looks terrible though. In light of that, I retract my earlier statement about it ;)

wmyrda commented 6 years ago

@Tomasz-W If icons for sports mentioned in post above will be added than I will be satisfied. Most important from them for me would be the one for multi so it can be added later on for gyms. Gyms in most cases can be adjusted for many sports like basketball, volleyball, handball, futsal (soccer in gym), badminton to name just a few.

HolgerJeromin commented 6 years ago

The german style has some fixes for this problem:

image

wmyrda commented 6 years ago

I actually considered lines as quite good idea and fine alternative to the icons, but when I see football field and tennis court I made up my mind. I would much rather see the icon in this cases as those areas look like electric coil of some kind...

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

Please move discussion about pitch markings there: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1126 . Let's discuss just the icons here.

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

Icons proposals:

As I support the idea to add man-made gray sport=* icons for pitches and tracks, I'm not sure about leisure-green icons for certain leisure=sports_centre types. Won't be a generic green dot enough there? I'm worried that special icons for combinations with leisure=sports_centre may clutter the map. What do you think?

Hufkratzer commented 6 years ago

As I wrote in https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2344, the proposed JOSM icon for sport=equestrian needs refinement. The current version doesn't look sporty at all, but rather looks like a beginner just before he falls off his horse.

matthijsmelissen commented 6 years ago

Once more: before starting to think about concrete icons, we should first decide whether we consider it desirable to add an icon for every single sport.

Hufkratzer commented 6 years ago

I consider it desirable because, as you explained at the beginning:

Currently all sport fields are shown in the same style. It is very difficult to distinguish the different sports.

We have more than 60 different icons for different kinds of shops. So why should 20 sports icons be a problem?

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

On the one hand we should render some similar features the same to avoid map cluttering, but on the other hand we should render different objects differently to show theirs functions properly.

In this case I'm sure we should add these icons for pitches, because function of eg. soccer pitch is totally different than a skateboard one, and now they are both rendered the same. I'm just considering do we need special icons for different sports centre types, because very often they are mentioned in a club name, eg. "Repton Boxing Club", so dot-rendering may be enough there.

Hufkratzer commented 6 years ago

First I thought that there could be a problem with too many icons if many table_tennis tables are near together like here: table_tennis (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/302613825)

But then I saw that for other objects like picnic_tables and benches this problem seems to have been solved, see here: picnic_tables (http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1894660341 in iD; the small icons are from iD, the bigger ones (less) from carto).

I wonder why this kind of solution wasn't/isn't applicable for swimming_pool's (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2870).

Tomasz-W commented 6 years ago

In case of somebody will be interested in making a test renderings:

Hufkratzer commented 6 years ago

What about sport=horse_racing on leisure=track?

Wiki:

sport=horse_racing has > 2k uses just on tracks which is more than scuba_diving, canoe / rowing and billiards.each have in total and these tracks for horse_racing are quite large objects.

Examples:

Icon could be something like racingb14 (just a rough draft) (:horse_racing: <- github horse_racing icon)

HolgerJeromin commented 6 years ago

(🏇 <- github horse_racing icon)

No, this is the horse racing icon of your browser/ operating system (list). Win 10 is quite colorful for example: image