Negation in sign language

[Gobtous]

In french sign language, for example :

• j'aime/j'aime pas (i love/ I dislike)
• je veux/je veux pas (i want/ I don't want)

Here is a video, that introduce well LSF. Joël Chalude show the "irregular" verb in french sign language : https://invidious.fdn.fr/b3v7o6Xi5Zs?t=104

So it bring another layer of difficulty as Sign It translate words by word. So i'm not sure if Sign It can detect a negative sentence, i don't know how it works on the technical side. For now, i can only think of a toggle above the video. Where we can switch to the negative verb. As for other sign language, i don't know if they have the same irregular verb.

[hugolpz]

Hello @Gobtous , The question you raise is correct. But it's on the linguistic / lexicographic side, and not on the software side which is the main focus on github. So your point will be forwarded to the contributing signers.

Second point, SignIt is not aimed at sentence translations. We do not aim to do it all. Sentence translation are an other, much harder NLP question we, a tiny volunteer-based Open content project, cannot afford to attack.

SignIt is a word-based e-learning tool allowing learners to learn word by word, on basic 5000+ vocabulary. We have 600+ LSF so far, but we aim to create more in a professional crowd sourced maner. We simply increase exposure to sign languages by making it available in all webpages. We have 600+ LSF so far, but we aim to create more in a professional crowd sourced maner.

I will close this issue here on github, but I will also report this to our signers. They also raise this kind of questions frequently.

[Gobtous]

Well, i think it is a good question and i tought we could include irregular verb.

Off-topic

Second point, SignIt is not aimed at sentence translations.

Yeah that's a question that linguist can explore and dive. Is the sign "i don't want" a word in sign language ?

"The fish is in the bowl" => translate into one sign : bowl-fish. "He is walking fast" => one sign : walk-fast Or the verb "To fall" => there is none because it is tied to its context. The sign "to fall" doesn't exist alone. It's a sign-environnement or sign-action. I don't have the correct word to convey it. For exemple, those signs exist "a falling leave", "a human falling from stairs"

I understand that the aim is to raise sign language awareness. But can we add definitions in sign language for the wikitionnary ?

I want deaf people to use SignIt in their daily life and help them understanding text. So you would have an extension that is helpful for both side : hearing and Deaf.

But i understand your point. sadly i'm not a developper.

[hugolpz]

We can create and video document expression such as :

• falling leave or fall (leave) ➡️ one sign and signed video
• human falling or fall in stairs or fall (walk) or fall (stairs) ➡️ one sign and signed video
• walking fast or walk (fast) ➡️ one sign and signed video.

So those concepts and signs can be in the SignIt-Wiktionary datasets, and can be displayed when you look for "walk", "stairs", "leave", etc.

On the other side, in webpages, when working from written text, we will never ecounter walk (fast) and rarely walking fast. This overall question of is a lexicographic question, as for #38 , which is the responsibility of the lexicographer making the wordlists and the entries words conventions (walk (fast) or walking fast?). Those will be up to the signers to find out and suggest some workable solutions.

[Gobtous]

Thank a lot for your precision. ☺️

[hugolpz]

Light follow up for @Gobtous. IRIS and myself lead a video recording workshop yesterday :

• 2024.01.17 IRIS Workshop > videos by Hugo en résidence (video actually from Carole).

Based on the discussion you and me had above on github, we implemented the parenthesis approach for homographs :

• accueil (lieu)
• catalogue (liste)
• conseiller (n.)
• conseiller (v.)
• salut (arrivée)
• salut (départ)
• etc.

We are testing around.