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Complete Lojban Language Chunked
http://lojban.org/publications/cll/
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Rafsi of broda/brode/brodi/brodo/brodu #445

Open Wuzzy2 opened 3 years ago

Wuzzy2 commented 3 years ago

The CLL leaves a couple of questions open that I like to have clarified in the CLL:

Wuzzy2 commented 3 years ago

I consider this to be an actual bug. I like to note the CLL also has a clear contradiction in the rafsi chapter 4.6:

Every gismu has from two to five rafsi, each of a different form, but each such rafsi represents only one gismu. (…) Each gismu always has at least two rafsi forms; one is the gismu itself (used only at the end of a lujvo), and one is the gismu with out its final vowel (used only at the beginning or middle of a lujvo).

This is a contradiction. Let me summarize:

Claim 1: Every gismu has a 4-letter rafsi Claim 2: Every such rafsi represents only one gismu Claim 3: “broda”, “brode”, “brodi”, “brodo”, “brodu” are gismu

So this means that “broda”, “brode”, “brodi”, “brodo”, “brodu” must all have the 4-letter rafsi “brod”. But then this rafsi can't represent only one gismu at the same time. That's a logical contradiction.

Possible solutions:

lagleki commented 3 years ago

Which do you prefer

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 20:24 Wuzzy notifications@github.com wrote:

I consider this to be an actual bug. I like to note the CLL also has a clear contradiction in the rafsi chapter 4.6:

Every gismu has from two to five rafsi, each of a different form, but each such rafsi represents only one gismu. (…) Each gismu always has at least two rafsi forms; one is the gismu itself (used only at the end of a lujvo), and one is the gismu with out its final vowel (used only at the beginning or middle of a lujvo).

This is a contradiction. Let me summarize:

Claim 1: Every gismu has a 4-letter rafsi Claim 2: Every such rafsi represents only one gismu Claim 3: “broda”, “brode”, “brodi”, “brodo”, “brodu” are gismu

So this means that “broda”, “brode”, “brodi”, “brodo”, “brodu” must all have the 4-letter rafsi “brod”. But then this rafsi can't represent only one gismu at the same time. That's a logical contradiction.

Possible solutions:

  • Explicitly assign the “brod” rafsi to one of the 5 gismu. This implies that 4 of the 5 gismu won't have a 4-letter rafsi
  • Remove the “brod” rafsi entirely. This implies that none of these 5 gismu will have a 4-letter rafsi

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Wuzzy2 commented 3 years ago

Personally, I prefer assigning “brod” to “broda”, leaving the other 4 gismu without a 4-letter rafsi.

However, I STRONGLY suggest to discuss this with other Lojbanists first, before doing any changes.

Wuzzy2 commented 3 years ago

Here's a different solution that I just thought of: Assign “brod” to “brodi”, so that “brodi” can be used in the middle of the word as well. This is slightly more balanced as well.

Summary:

Current situation: “brod” rafsi is ambigious

Theoretical rafsi list:

The “brod” rafsi is could stand for any of the 5 rafsi (see explanation above). That's kinda meh.

Solution 1: Remove the “brod” rafsi

Rafsi list:

Only broda and brode can be used in the middle of a lujvo. Also, the “brod” rafsi is probably already used in the wild, so it is probably not a good idea to remove it.

Solution 2: Assign “brod” to “broda” only

Rafsi list:

Only broda and brode can be used in the middle of a lujvo. Considering that broda already has a short rafsi which allows to use this word in the middle of a lujvo, it doesn't seem that useful to give it another rafsi.

Solution 3: Assign “brod” to “brodi” only:

Rafsi list:

broda, brode and brodi can be used in the middle of a lujvo. This solution seems now the most balanced to me, and is now my new preferred solution.

phma commented 3 years ago

I agree with assigning "-brod-" to "brodi". I guess that "broda" is the most frequently used and "brodu" the least. I use "rodbo'e" (along with "comdaidza") for "thingamajig".