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martanne / vis

A vi-like editor based on Plan 9's structural regular expressions
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FreeBSD already comes with a program called vis #338

Open passstab opened 8 years ago

passstab commented 8 years ago

You might want to change the name of this project https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=vis&sektion=1&apropos=0&manpath=freebsd Edit: that software is also included in openbsd http://man.openbsd.org/vis.1 and netbsd http://netbsd.gw.com/cgi-bin/man-cgi?vis+1+NetBSD-6.0

ghost commented 8 years ago

The project could keep the same name: Only the binary and the man page needs to change their name?

Vis could get a server/client model in the future. The client could be visc, and the daemon visd?

aeosynth commented 8 years ago

nodejs has a similar issue on debian/ubuntu; there is already a node program, so the js runtime is renamed to nodejs. most other distros leave the runtime as node.

passstab commented 8 years ago

I don't think that is a good solution.

The other vis has quite a legacy, having first appeared in unix 8th edition. Unlike the nodejs example which effects only debian and its downstream distributions, the other vis is now included in at least 5 separately maintained unix derivatives. In addition to the three I mentioned in my original comment, it is included in HP-UX and DragonflyBSD.

Leaving the naming to the different operating systems could mean more then a couple names, and it could be an annoyance for those who use more then one OS.

I think keeping the name vis would unnecessarily cause a lot of confusion.

martanne commented 8 years ago

I'm aware of the history leading to the original vis utility found on many Unix systems. And yes the name clash is unfortunate, at the time it was a deliberate decision. With hindsight it was probably a bad idea. I might indeed decide to rename the project at some point.

czarkoff commented 7 years ago

@martanne, I am making an OpenBSD port for vis, and I have to rename binary and manual page it to avoid name clash. Any suggestions regarding name? I came up with "vise" ("vis" + "e" for "editor").

martanne commented 7 years ago

NetBSD/pkgsrc settled for vis-editor which seems preferable. I suggested the same thing for the homebrew package. In practical terms users properly use a shell alias anyway.

As for the more general problem of renaming the whole project, some naming suggestions which I remember from the last time this was discussed:

I haven't actually properly checked whether some of them are already in use etc. Suggestions welcome.

ghost commented 7 years ago

Why not svi? It does not seems to be present in BSDs at least, and could mean Simple/Suckless VI[m] or Simple/Suckless Vi Improved (as in vi improved in a simple way).

passstab commented 7 years ago

there is something else called vis-editor

czarkoff commented 7 years ago

People won't necessarily use aliases unless they are forced to. Some may even switch between different vi-like editors depending on current task. So a simpler, shorter name would be a good thing.

Also, if renaming is on cards, it should probably happen as soon as possible, so that the amount of downstream projects that have to deal with package name change is as small as possible.

FWIW I'd rather go with svi or vie, so that vi part stands out.

eworm-de commented 7 years ago

Possibly a stupid idea, but... Let's discuss it. How about going with just v? In the end we are minimalistic. :D Would that clash anywhere?

ghost commented 7 years ago

@eworm-de: I think no one ever dare name a text editor v, but many people may have a l as an alias for ls, and v for vi/vim.

On the other hand, this editor is not the default, so if the user installs it, he may want to use it.

@czarkoff: vie means "life" in french. And it is simple as in "VIsual Editor".

czarkoff commented 7 years ago

Yes, that was my reasoning behind this suggestion back in 2014..

ghost commented 7 years ago

I also thought about triode, an anagram of editor, and the ancestor of the transistor. It is also very close to trimode (as the three modes of vi).

But it is too long to type: twice as much as vis!

aeosynth commented 7 years ago

savvy - sa(m) + vi(s). but this is also long.

edit - savi ?

erf commented 7 years ago

Here are the permutations of vim and sam:

vim vis via vmi vms vma vsi vsm vsa vai vam vas iva ivm ivs ima imv ims isa isv ism ias iav iam mvs mva mvi mis mia miv msi msa msv mai mas mav svi svm sva siv sim sia smv smi sma sav sai sam avs avi avm ais aiv aim ams amv ami asm asv asi

shua commented 7 years ago

is ve already taken? (visual editor)

or you can go the way of libzahl, and call it seh from german

erf commented 7 years ago

@shua a quick google search revealed this -> http://www.campbell-tx.net/campbellware/ve.php

In general when considering a name, i think the key combination should be as easy as possible to type.

herrbischoff commented 7 years ago

I like the idea of triode. It's a pleasant name which could also be shortened to tri.

aeosynth commented 7 years ago

the names sam and acme have no relation to ed or vi; this project doesn't have to pay homage either. call it me for 'modal editor'.

luciusgone commented 7 years ago

Seems stuck here. Shall I propose the name "fella" for this project is quite young compared to the other giant old mates.

z3bra commented 7 years ago

It could be something as simple as "edit", so that typing "edit file" would make sense! I also like the name "vie". As I read it in french, it makes english sentences sound fun :) I would suggest not going with a name that is longer than 4 char though. Long names calls for complex projects in my mind.

ghost commented 7 years ago

I like "edit" (contains ed(1) in it), but it is hard to search through search engines. Also, http://man.freebsd.org/edit points to ee(1).

"edit" -> "edt" ?

ddkn commented 7 years ago

Reading through this list, I like the idea of siv, which is similar to a sieve /siv/. Defined as separating coarser from finer particles (code) -- seems to be what vis does as an editor. Short name, and still has sam, and vi in the name, as well as minimal and doesn't conflict.

Compiling for FreeBSD was when I noticed this issue.

lanodan commented 7 years ago

@josuah:

I think removing few letters is not gonna help people that have issues reading/writing and/or issues remembering the name, also it makes it non-pronounceable or ambigous.

I propose "stika"[stika] which comes from lojban:

ghost commented 7 years ago

There's a lot of names now ! :) They are all fine, but we cannot pick them all.b

We could do the name change at version 1.0, with the announcement to the community (HN, lobste.rs, reddit...): "releasing **** 1.0".

Does it clash on some OS, in chronological order of the proposition:

name Linux (man7.org) Linux (die.net) NetBSD FreeBSD OpenBSD Plan 9
vis ✓ ✗ ✗ ✗ ✗ ✗
vise ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
vs ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
siv ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
mirj ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
svi ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
vie ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
v ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
triode ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
savi ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
savvy ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
ve ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
seh ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
tri ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
me ✓ ✓ ~ ✗ ✓ ✓
fella ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
edit ✓ ✓ ✓ ✗ ✓ ✓
edt ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓
stika ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓ ✓

To add more rows:

sed 's!.*!| `&` | [?](https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=site:man7.org/linux/+&) | [?](https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=site:linux.die.net/man+&) | [?](http://netbsd.gw.com/cgi-bin/man-cgi?&) | [?](http://man.freebsd.org/&) | [?](http://man.openbsd.org/&) | [?](https://duckduckgo.com/lite/?q=site:man.cat-v.org+&) |!'
erf commented 7 years ago

Maybe add a poll at some time? Or a random chooser ;)

ghost commented 7 years ago

Yes, we may need a poll at some point. :) Not really to vote as it's @martanne's project from the beginning, but to give him an idea how the community appreciate the various names.

poll -> https://poll.kosebamse.com/vis

You can add a column too.

stevenjm commented 6 years ago

@martanne I saw in another issue that you mentioned the chore of renaming everything as a reason not to do this (yet?). If you decide on a new name, I am willing to do the work of actually implementing the rename.

As a user of both OpenBSD and Linux, doing that busywork once is less annoying to me than remembering two different commands for the same editor. Besides, it's a good way to get to know the code.

lanodan commented 6 years ago

Well the rename part thing probably needs:

slim commented 6 years ago

I see the obvious "visam" was not proposed. So here it is

lanodan commented 6 years ago

I ran another conflict test against repology, to give conflicting package names on a lot of repositories.

Note: vis is also apparently used for a rooting package in LEDE and OpenWRT.

And here is the code I used to generate this:

#!/bin/sh
for name in vis vise vs siv mirj svi vie v triode savi savvy ve seh tri me fella edit edt stika visam vy vv devi edvin svin; do
    if test "$(curl 'https://repology.org/api/v1/metapackage/'${name} 2>/dev/null | wc -c)" -le 5; then
        status="✓"
    else
        status="✗"
    fi
    echo '* ``'${name}'``: ['${status}'](https://repology.org/metapackage/'${name}'/versions)'
done
hoshineko commented 6 years ago

suggesting vy (vi) and vv (vi vi).

quicknquiet commented 6 years ago

my suggest: devi

  1. Easy to type
  2. I've searched for it, not used anywhere yet
  3. Sounds like "de vie" which means smth practical in French (?)
  4. Strong Hindu connotations of a feminine divine origin (Any project need heavenly patron). Hidus and women on our side :)
  5. No problems with Logo ideas - it can be nice yantra or multihanded deity, which can be associated with multicursor support and handy universal usage in general
Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

How about "edVin"? It has "ed", "vi" and Plan "n"ine. Or maybe "sVin". For "Sam" This variant has additional benefit of being catchy in Russian, as it sounds like male ping. (No negative connotations).

lanodan commented 6 years ago

@Vintodrimmer

Do you want the capitalization too? As that would probably not be much supported and it quite adds to the typing-length of the name. Also svin seems to mean pig/swine in Nordic languages too (cf. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/svin ), which might be neat. 🤷

Also, I’d quite like for this issue to be settled quickly, I don’t really care much about the name as long as it’s not offensive, I care more about it not being in conflict with *BSD/Unix utils.

erf commented 6 years ago

Maybe change ‘svin’ to ‘vins’.

Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

@lanodan I don't really care about capitalisation. I just thought it looks more symmetrical in 5 letter case and accentuates that it has something to do with "Vi". But all lower case is probably better in practice.

I agree about quick settling, though I wish for it to be more recognizable. Even on GitHub it's not at the top of the search.

Also, "svin" might instantly solve the related logo problem. But perhaps developers might want to avoid such associations as the editor seems to be pretty (for the lack of the better word) elegant.

@erf Not a native speaker, but doesn't it read as "wins"? A bit cheeky in my opinion. Otherwise sounds good.

erf commented 6 years ago

What about just ‘vin’ - as in ‘vi’ + ‘plan (n)ine’ as was mentioned.

( ´vin´ means ´wine´ in Norwegian )

Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

I feel that "vi-based editor name with 3 letters, one of which is 'n' " is already perfected by nvi.

How about virn for "vi reimagined/regexp with plan nine in mind" or one of my favourite Linux naming conventions of recursive acronyms? Then it can bevirv or vivr (pronounced as beaver or river) for "virv is a r eimagined vi/ vi reimagined with plan 9's regular expressions in mind".

That said, I agree that this can go on forever, so I don't have anything against vin and will be pretty happy to use it. It's just that not often one gets a chance to participate in the naming of an interesting project he/she uses.

lanodan commented 6 years ago

Okay, I’m going to be pushy here but let’s arbitrarily take the results greater than vis (I used the chart):

My reason for taking thoses is because:

On another note I would like to update my vote as some columns have been added but I don’t think I have received the edit link in my e-mails. @josuah Could you/we fix that someway?

EDIT: Package name conflict

ghost commented 6 years ago

It looks like we have a pretty decent name-choosing framework there! ;)

I have access to a "global admin pannel" where I can change the votes myself, but I can't find links to allow only one edit its own votes.

Do I make the link public ? But then anyone might edit any answer.

And for the fun:

Q: What is the origin of the name?

A: Rob Pike explains:

When I started working on Acme, I had a pretty strong idea about what it would be and what it would look like, but I didn’t have a name yet. As I usually did at the time, on Friday night I went to Times Square for Movie Night. Penn Jillette was there, and I told him I needed a name for my new project.

“What does it do?” he asked. “Umm… Everything.” I said. “Acme,” said Penn, and laughed. And that was it.

http://acme.cat-v.org/faq

Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

You can create another poll with the most popular picks from the first round and new entries.

ghost commented 6 years ago

@Vintodrimmer ok, let's... Note that anybody can create polls. :P It remain possible to add entries and vote on the previous poll if you do not like having ...

Here is what @lanodan proposed: 23+9 : ve: ✗ (also used by another editor) 20+6 : vie: ✓ 18+7 : siv: ✗ 13+8 : svi: ✓ 10+7 : tri: ✓

So we only focus on vie, svi and tri ?

I was too lazy to go over the whole discussion again, so I'm picking the list of @lanodan and adding the new entries since then.

What about 0x$(dd if=/dev/random bs=4 count=1 2>/dev/null | od -An -x | tr -d ' ')

ghost commented 6 years ago

Round 2 -> https://poll.kosebamse.com/vis2

Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

I believe, svi is missing from the poll.

erf commented 6 years ago

@joshaw Could you also add nvi and vin as new suggestions?

Vintodrimmer commented 6 years ago

nvi is definitely taken

[-] nvi-1.81.6_16                     The Berkeley Vi Editor
ghost commented 6 years ago

You were right, svi and vin added, sorry.

paride commented 5 years ago

Should vis be renamed please also look for name clashes in Debian. This can easily be done from https://packages.debian.org/. In general I am against two letter names: clashes will happen at some point. I second svi, as sam + vi, structural vi, and it's an anagram of vis. It is also very easy to type on a QWERTY keyboard.

lanodan commented 5 years ago

Should vis be renamed please also look for name clashes in Debian

Debian packages are indexed into repology.org, which I done checks against.