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minetest / minetest_game

Minetest Game - A lightweight and well-maintained base for modding [https://github.com/minetest/minetest/]
http://minetest.net/
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Change name of the game? #2077

Closed paramat closed 5 years ago

paramat commented 6 years ago

Suggestion for 'Mesetint':

I suggest some instances of the MTG name can remain to reduce disruption, such as the repo name.

To avoid bikeshedding i suggest we do not consider any other name and just go with a name celeron55 is happy with (and has used before).

Ferk commented 6 years ago

The only thing is that with a name so descriptive such as "Sandbox" there's the chance people just think of it as a gamemode/description of Minetest or so rather than a game. It's likely to end up being known as "Minetest's Sandbox"... which is not much different from "Minetest Game".

If some third person who doesn't know about it asks you "what game are you playing?" you're likely to still call it "Minetest" rather than saying you are playing "Sandbox" (which would sound weird... like playing an FPS called "FPS"), so the confusion might continue and people will keep identifying Minetest with the default game it ships with.

My vote would go to "Meselands"

ghost commented 6 years ago

so the confusion might continue and people will keep identifying Minetest with the default game it ships with.

They will always do as long as there is a default game shipped with the engine.

XenonLab-Studio commented 6 years ago

Meselands

I like it a lot, it's the best name we found.

Wuzzy2 commented 6 years ago

I like to remind you that the last time we changed the name of the game (from “minetest_game” or “Minetest” to “Minetest Game”), it took almost a year to complete. (The name change was justified to avoid ambigiuty, btw.). Proceed with caution. https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/437

I agree that Minetest Game is not a pretty name but IMO this is currently the least of its problems.

Minetest Game isn't really the best game our community has to offer anyway (ehem …). Don't you have more important things to discuss? Like picking a serious game as default (rather than just a collection of random features)? Or creating an actual game design?

ghost commented 6 years ago

Don't you have more important things to discuss? Like picking a serious game as default (rather than just a collection of random features)? Or creating an actual game design?

Quoted for emphasis.

paramat commented 6 years ago

The name really should be changed, because the 'Minetest' part of it is so bad, and the 'Game' part of it probably unnecessary (hehe so all of it), and to avoid this being seen as the primary Minetest game, a new game is probably needed to be the one that impresses.

So name suggestions posted here over time are welcome and helpful, but i discourage non-devs from 'voting' or 'choosing' here, or discussing how to choose, choosing is best done by the devs.

GreenXenith commented 6 years ago

choosing is best done by the devs.

I completely agree with this.

In choosing a name, I'd (personally) follow these:

These are pretty obvious, just thought I'd mention them though.

Ferk commented 6 years ago

i discourage non-devs from 'voting' or 'choosing' here, or discussing how to choose, choosing is best done by the devs.

I just said "my vote would go to.." with an explicit "would". No pretensions. I assume it's still fine to give opinions about preferred names and evaluate the possible reception of the names proposed. There was also no discussion about "how" to execute the choosing, just opinions on the names, ideas on criteria to follow and someone gave a suggestion to seek help from someone that knows marketing, but I think it's clear the core dev team should be the one making the call on when and how to choose it, and which suggestions/criteria to follow. If opinions on the names and criteria are not welcome, then I'll shut up.

ghost commented 6 years ago

Avoid "block" or "craft" or voxel-game-related terms.

In the (in)famous forum topic on renaming the engine there was a consensus on not to use the terms "craft", "block", "test", "mine", "node" or any node names or item names or specific features from "Minetest Game". In addition to that there can't be another already existing project with the name and the name can't be too generic to be googleable.

Oh, and to avoid pesky users attending a dev-only discussion lock the issue so only contributors can comment.

InfiniteOtter commented 6 years ago

If we step back and describe it to someone the odds are good that we will call it, "The default game." "Default," is not a very encouraging or romantic title, but it is simple and self explanatory.

Wuzzy2 commented 6 years ago

Call it “Paramat's Game”. Because it's true. :stuck_out_tongue:

GreenXenith commented 6 years ago

Call it “Paramat's Game”.

I actually had this exact idea when thinking of a joke name in my first post... sorry paramat...

LoneWolfHT commented 6 years ago

Suggestion: Mesagon

Poikilos commented 6 years ago

Suggestions (trying to capture the theme): Made-up words: groundlab dirtlab levelground earthgrab digland mesedig worldsim earthsim basegame Real words: basement nascent prime primitive natural organic foundation rock vanilla I just read the part where this was going to be a dev-only discussion but already typed everything so here you go.

paramat commented 6 years ago

Ferk, sorry, i didn't mean it that way. I am suggesting it is a good idea that non-core-devs avoid argument about which to choose (this hasn't actually happened much, just suggesting for the future). Discussion is of course fine.

Oh, and to avoid pesky users attending a dev-only discussion

It isn't a dev-only discussion.

Wuzzy2, erm, no it's not.

poikilos, "I just read the part where this was going to be a dev-only discussion" this is certainly not a dev-only discussion, don't worry.

Poikilos commented 6 years ago

Any thoughts on my suggestions (maybe if people like me put lists, nominate one by repeating it in a comment, then people can react to that post)?

ghost commented 6 years ago

It isn't a dev-only discussion.

Well, let me quote yourself: “i discourage non-devs from […] discussing how to choose, choosing is best done by the devs.”

So?

GreenXenith commented 6 years ago

Well, let me quote yourself: “i discourage non-devs from […] discussing how to choose, choosing is best done by the devs.”

So?

So, it's best for the devs to choose a name from the pool of suggested names, be they submitted by developers or us. We aren't prohibited from throwing some names in that pool. However, it is the dev's job to discuss how to choose and what to choose.

Speaking of "how to choose", what kind of names are should we be suggesting @paramat? A criteria would be nice so we aren't throwing random things around.

paramat commented 6 years ago

Found celeron55's list of crazy names from 2013.

mesetint
voxelgap
fancyvox
voxelness
voxtension
voxpance
minespance
mesespance
vastxel
boxtend
mynebox
mesebox
meseslash
mesemake
minegap
moldxel
meseslice
messemble
boxend
cubedump
minescratch
communismcraft
makeblerb
derpxel
myner
buildat

Reading IRC logs during MTEngine name discussion he suggested the Finnish word 'Palikka', which means 'block'. Using a translater i found that 'Lohko' also means 'block'. We also discussed 'Kuutio' which is Finnish for cube, but that's a contender for engine name and possibly too good for MTG. Many Finnish words look and sound funky.

sofar commented 6 years ago

There are two ways to choose a "brand" name.

  1. You use a legitimate commercial company and pay between 30k and 100k to do a name search, and possibly more to do user research on whether people like it and whether the association will stick. These folks will also tell you that "kuutio" sounds like in dutch (believe me, not a pretty choice), half of the listed names are probably fine but some run afoul trademark etc.

  2. You ignore any advice to not do it yourself, and choose a name you'll regret later on.

Fixer-007 commented 6 years ago

There is no way I will remember weird finnish names, even crapnames like minetest and qtpfsgui are easier to remember, don't make it worse!

ghost commented 6 years ago

Oh god, this 2013 list looks so horrible and like a list of example names that should not used. :rofl:

The idea using a Finnish word is actually pretty nice.

rdococ commented 6 years ago

'Minetest' sounds like a name for a Minecraft clone, or at least a game that is similar in gameplay or style but less developed. That's essentially what MTG is, but not the engine.

Hence, my view is that we should be focusing on changing the name of the engine, and then maybe picking an entirely different game to go along with it.

MTE (the engine) has enough features that you can create a game that is essentially nothing like MTG or Minecraft apart from the fact that it takes place on a voxel grid. Therefore, the engine name should be more generic than it is currently - e.g. "LuaVoxel". In the meantime, maybe we should use "Minetest Engine" to refer to the engine until the developers decide on a new one.

Edit: I couldn't find an already existing piece of software named LuaVoxel. Unless a better name for the engine comes along, that one is the name I'm throwing into the pool.

TumeniNodes commented 6 years ago

could always go the German route: Mein Engine

But on a serious note. Minetest Game is an established and familiar name. Even if a new name is chosen, some will be happy, some will not.

Remember, even a long time, established program as Gimp uses "xcf" which literally stands for "experimental" computing facility..., and I do not see many complaints about that, because it says "experimental" even though the "experiment" it is based on (to create an ongoing backward compatible file extension) has been stable for quite some time now.

Any name, should have some relation to some aspect of the game (aside from the obvious lame, same-olds) It could be called Adventurer or MeinVenture, MineVenture... something, it just has to be relative.

mineventure is already used elsewhere Let's just call it purgatory! and get it over with haha
ghost commented 6 years ago

I don't think we should worry at all about backwards compatibility. Due to the major changes in 0.5.0 most worlds might not even work right in it, with and without any name game name changes. Also remember that, sadly, we can't please everyone. I also like Meselands name, but mese may (or maybe not) need to become more popular for it make sense.

Ezhh commented 6 years ago

Due to the major changes in 0.5.0 most worlds won't even work right in it

Not true. Worlds moving from current stable to 0.5 will be fine.

paramat commented 6 years ago

Backwards compatibility is not an issue as we would alter the existing code that creates a game name alias. See https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2077#issuecomment-372339550

paramat commented 6 years ago

Someone made a good point that the current name unfortunately creates too much focus on this game or suggests this is the best example of what the engine is capable of etc. I see changing the name of MTG as much more important than changing the name of the engine.

So anyway, i've been considering one name over the last few weeks and it seems good to me. I suggest 'Lohko', it's Finnish for 'block', and was a suggestion by Celeron55 during a name discussion. It seems suitable for a sandbox type game while also being abstract to non-Finnish speakers so avoids being one of those obvious English voxel game names.

GreenXenith commented 6 years ago

I was a lot more comfortable saying "Minetest" than I am saying "loco" (because that's what "Lohko" sounds like).

TumeniNodes commented 6 years ago

ready?.... Meselot (reference to Camelot)

I focus on mese, because it is "the" unique material of this world, and even though it was added as a joke, I will always feel strongly that is a good area to focus on.

paramat commented 6 years ago

Ok nevermind that suggestion :) I thought 'crazy' (loco) was quite suitable for MTG.

I still find 'Mesetint' the obvious name since the game used to be called this and it refers to the only unique characteristic of the game. It's not a great name but it's no worse than 'Minetest'. But, a core dev dislikes that =/

paramat commented 6 years ago

Hmm this is going to be difficult :) Almost feel like giving up. Ironically, we probably have 2 or more core devs that dislike 'Minetest Game', but any new name with 1 disapproval is unlikely to get anywhere (understandably).

Ezhh commented 6 years ago

The more I hear Mesetint, the less I like it (sorry). I have nothing against a name including Mese... it's just the -tint part. A game with a tint of mese? I don't even know what that's meant to be conveying, and that's with me already knowing what mese is. To new players it just sounds confusing. At least people know what Minetest Game is.

paramat commented 6 years ago

I must admit i'm not particularly keen on it either :) Also because of the 'tint' part.

Poikilos commented 6 years ago

@paramat, did you read my idea list (above, 3 months ago) and like any of them?

paramat commented 6 years ago

Yes, some are quite creative and original, like 'groundlab'. But i don't particularly like any of them, sorry. I think we are all naturally fussy about names, which is why naming is so difficult :) I don't see this as a blocker for 5.0.0.

There is still 'Kuutio' (Finnish for 'cube'), but that is a popular contender for a new engine name and perhaps should be reserved for the engine.

TumeniNodes commented 6 years ago

perhaps this. And, intended as a serious submission, as well as a humorous 'fact'

Minestrosity

I used the word monstrosity as a base (a play on words), as I have done a disturbing amount of, which has provided me with a list of about 50+ names

If you look at the word monstrosity, it sort of describes Minetest/Minetest Game : P https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/monstrosity

and..., it remains somewhat close to the name MineTest (well, not 'really' but, you get my drift) it's sort of similar... -ish

TMcSquared commented 6 years ago

List of names that I've come up with: MeseCraft MynersWorld MynersMese MeseBlock TerraMese <-- I actually like this one 😄

paramat commented 6 years ago

Wut? We're not even breaking worlds in the change to 5.0.0. Keeping compatibility is simple anyway.

Ezhh commented 6 years ago

@TMcSquared You realise servers might want to switch version without destroying all their players work?

Either way, nothing with "Craft" or "Myner" please.

paramat commented 6 years ago

Some anagrams of Minetest Game, just for fun, not suggestions:

Neatest Gimme Meats Meeting Mat Esteeming Get Mist Enema Mega Teen Mist Mega Mine Test Mega Smite Net Mega Times Ten Mega Items Net Teen Mist Game Agents Emit Me Titan Mese Gem Mese Get It Man

codexp commented 6 years ago

I suggest MeseGist [MG]

C1ffisme commented 6 years ago

MeseGist

This makes sense because:

But if not this, Teen Mist Game or Mega Teen Mist sounds pretty good.

codexp commented 6 years ago

I also thought of DreamBuilder but this is probably too widespread and not worth it.

gist also means: the substance or general meaning of a speech or text So this would mean mese is the core element of the game.

ghost commented 6 years ago

So this would mean mese is the core element of the game.

Which it isn’t.

InfiniteOtter commented 6 years ago

If we are going to step backwards and return to a mese base name, then I would vote for "Mese en Place." "Mise en place," means everything in place. It refers to having everything ready to start cooking. It refers to an ethic and the feeling of being well prepared. In psychology it refers to the feeling of "how one's stance towards a given environment places constraints on what one feels able to do within that environment, and how these assessments and predispositions impact the process of preparing to act." (Quote from wikipedia)

codexp commented 6 years ago

@4w true, I also connect Mese with the Mesecon mod, so this isn't good too.

DartPower commented 6 years ago

Renaem tihs ples to "Mastercraft"

Poikilos commented 6 years ago

Along those lines

mastermole, moleworld, crafty, greenery, bare, cemented, groundwork, substratum As I was looking in the thesaurus, I also thought: how about subgame is named thesaurus, mesenary, soildict.

Don't forget latin https://www.getrandomthings.com/random-latin-words.php:

or worldland, landville, Honestly I didn't know you were changing the dev version to 5.0.0--before I knew that I thought the change to the name of this topic from 0.5.0 to 5.0.0 was a joke--like maybe the naming discussion will take another 4.5*5 years :)

Poikilos commented 6 years ago

My bro, without knowing what mese was, had trouble pronouncing mesetint and stuttered and pronounced it something like "me set int." Also he suggested: Prospector's Trial, World Ripper, Mod It Til It Breaks, Undertitan (a reference to Minetest's underdog status)

You could also make the name appear as the main heading on the splash screen (instead of Minetest) with "powered by Minetest" somewhere, if one aim is to promote the idea that Minetest is an engine.