New Apache Camel Logo - Githubissues

jdorfman commented 7 years ago

Claus Ibsen from Apache Camel is looking for a new logo:

Idea: Camel flying a Apache Helicopter... =p

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

Got this. What do you think of it?

(Putting in a camel is way too overused. I tried for something simpler)

preview-01 preview-02

jdorfman commented 7 years ago

I think the Apache Camel has a new bad ass logo. Great job @elioqoshi !

Espina2 commented 7 years ago

@elioqoshi

Its really nice, It looks a bit like a mountain because of the yellow gradient, I don´t know if are intentional or not.

I think in black backgrounds red its a bit to agressive. Maybe you should create the monochrome for that purpose.

Espina2 commented 7 years ago

I test to see if I can understand "what it mean" without the naming and Its a bit difficult to understand what is the mean.

untitled-1

Lekkie commented 7 years ago

I can definitely see some camel to drive.....

davsclaus commented 7 years ago

Like the idea of the desert with the sand dune and that they form Camel humbs. But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

davsclaus commented 7 years ago

I would like to see some ideas with a Camel animal also in the logo somewhere.

I understand the first logo with the simplicity and if its just a Camel with 1 humb walking in the desert, or something.

tabish121 commented 7 years ago

For some reason when I first looked at it I imagined the camera panning back to show Homer Simpson snoring in bed.

jdorfman commented 7 years ago

@davsclaus

But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

You are correct. But that is why it took Starbucks almost 30 years to remove the type from their logo.

I would like to see some ideas with a Camel animal also in the logo somewhere.

Anytime I see a full Camel illustration I think Perl. Just saying...

gillisig commented 7 years ago

But I think the logo without the word Camel is currently still to hard to associate that its Apache Camel.

Once you see it with the word Camel and realise that those are humbs, which I did almost instantly, you can't really unsee it. On top of that I would say that most good logos don't necessarily make sense unless you already know them. For example Nike, its just a stroke but because you know it you instantly recognise it.

I personally think @elioqoshi really did a great job with this one.

jdorfman commented 7 years ago

@gillisig great point with the Nike swoosh.

@davsclaus I just don't want this to happen again: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PIG-3214

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

I couldn't say it better honestly what the other said :) A camel's special trait is not the head, rather than its humbs, so keeping it simple helps here. Also, if you don't want to end up looking like a certain cigarette brand I think we should play along those lines here.

Also... Perl.

When doing this logo I had a "Eureka" moment, so that's usually a good sign. With all modesty, I think it's composed well and the Apache colors even look like the desert sun in the circle, which really fits nicely. I can hardly think of a way this could work better differently

abouchama commented 7 years ago

I agree with you @davsclaus , I think a new logo with Camel Animal can be a good idea. However Great job @elioqoshi !

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

It can be a good idea, but I don't think it is one in the particular case

abouchama commented 7 years ago

To give you inspiration @elioqoshi , here's my camel ;-): camel_toy

@davsclaus what do you think ?

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

Sorry, but how is that related with this particular logo design?

ullgren commented 7 years ago

I also think the proposed logo is a bit hard to connect to Camel without the text. My first reaction was M ?. I would much rather have something even simpler, without the shading, that also works in when printing in only black and white.

If we do not want to use the animal perhaps something that includes the C and that hints on the capabilities of Apache Camel (connecting and integrating things) ?

kenhara commented 7 years ago

This is a nice design, @elioqoshi! Here are my thoughts:

Re: Name/text/recognizability Because this design is more abstract, I think the text should be a standard part of the logo for now. With use over time, they could drop the text. Alternatively, begin this transition by allowing exceptional use of the logo without text in small formats (e.g. avatar icons).

Re: Monochromatic/simple format I agree with @Espina2 and @ullgren concerns. What would this look monochromatic on dark vs light background? I think a black/white and white/black alternate versions are needed for their community to approve/finalize this design. I suspect they have their logo printed on conference t-shirts, etc.

Re: The camel The camel could still be a strong part of the brand, but freed by moving it to a mascot outside of the logo to become more stylized since the logo must be constant and unchanged across mediums. I am thinking similar to OctoCat.

What do you think about this, @davsclaus

Espina2 commented 7 years ago

Don't get me wrong I think its a really good start @elioqoshi and a nice work.

Just one more ideia

You can play with type to. Like with letters "AM" you can make something like the example above. It will look more personalized and unique. camel

This image don't belong to me

simonv3 commented 7 years ago

Hey all,

@elioqoshi, could you give a bit more overview of how you got to your current design? Maybe the process and research you did? Other variations you considered? I suspect some people would love to see that process and how your final version came into shape. Why did you choose those colors?

I'm also going to bring in some great logos from recognizable brands that are abstract where the icon in the logo without the words is involved. You'll note that a lot of these are designed by Pentagram, a very well known design agency who - I think it's fair to say - know what they're doing (I basically just went to their website and looked at their work). mastercard_pentagram_press-4 jo_staralliance_01 instantlogosearch-nike instantlogosearch-snapchat nj_gee_103 21stcenturyfox_pentagram_video-2 mb_mitmedialab_014

And lest we forget.

svgporn-apache

I also want to point out the "silent" people who thumbed up and hearted the logo: screenshot 2016-10-15 08 40 08

As I mentioned in IRC (feel free to join us there on freenode #opensourcedesign) I do think the process was a bit obscure and could have been handled and explained a bit better, but I think the end result logo is really good, and people can be really pressed for time and resources - which is a given in any volunteer effort.

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, especially @kenhara and @simonv3 feedback was very helpful. So the reason I didn't go deeper into explanations was simply time related. Most of the ideas I wanted to bring into the logo were recognized by the people though, which is a good sign.

So, here is the process:

There are 2 types of camels, dromedary and bactrian. They can be easily recognized by their humps; dromedaries have one, bactrians have two. I felt that two humps represent the camel better, especially when not using a full body one. Also, Camel (the cigarette brand) and various other brands which use a camel as a logo, have a dromedary camel representing them. It was an easy decision to go with a bactrian camel here I believe.
The design of the humps in a logo should be doable using a Sine graph formula if I'm not mistaken: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sine+graph&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images I felt that this represented well the technical nature of Apache Camel (yes, I basically created a Sine graph - camel humps pun)
I used the Apache logo color gradient for the background of the logo in such a way it would convey a desert horizon including the sun shining from an angle (notice that it's not straight vertical aligned). P.S: I generally hate gradients, but I think this was the perfect case to use it.
The wordmark discussion is pretty clear to me: The logo should be used with icon and wordmark in one medium. It's a privilege very few brands have to break this rule and still be recognizable (Nike, Apple, McDonalds, Mastercard, Firefox, etc.). Apart of them being in another league, they have many years behind them to be established in such a way. As said before, Starbucks needed over 40 years to be able to remove its wordmark. That's not a standard we can (or should pursue).
Other flat or monochrome versions are needed as well of course. Here's what I would suggest, which is suitable for printing on "difficult" backgrounds, sprites, or embossing. Also, a flat version with the Apache Red is an alternative when needed.

flat logo monochrome

Again, we are free to also have a full body camel mascot (with 2 humps in that case) to accompany materials. This is how we did it for Glucosio (and the mascot is not part of the logo, but accompanies most of our materials in Glucosio): https://dribbble.com/shots/2586314-Glucosio-Glucat-Poses-1

That's it in a nutshell. I am sure I forgot something here but I'd be happy to further explain the thought process behind it :)

arielcarrera commented 7 years ago

I like the design of @elioqoshi but I'm agree with @davsclaus too. Maybe something like this can work: apache-camel

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

Why would you want to do that? Randomly suggesting mockups without backing up the reason you support that doesn't help in this case.

I must say thank you for that example, as it's clearly noticeable how wrong the logo can go if we go into that direction.

tadayosi commented 7 years ago

Besides Perl, OCaml (https://ocaml.org/) is yet another camel in the programming space that we may need to avoid confusion 😄

nicolaferraro commented 7 years ago

Personally I like a lot the logo designed by @elioqoshi .

My first impression was that of a dejavu.

Maybe because of the two humps in a circle designed by the "M". After few days I appreciated it much more and started forgetting about Motorola..

My only concern is about the "M" suggested by the logo. The logo is not abstract like the master card one, it suggests a precise letter that has nothing to do with Camel. I think people can experience difficulties to remember the product associated to the logo, because they try to guess something that starts with "M".

I think it will be used a lot without the text, especially when a small-sized logo is needed.

Look at the "Great Eastern Energy" logo posted above. It's not completely abstract, it's a rotated "G" and the counter-rotated paper highlights that. Would you use it for a company named eg. "Big Eastern Energy"?

I'm not a design expert, but I'd have added some asymmetry to the logo, to break the association with the letter "M". Dunes in the desert are asymmetric respect to their axis, as much as camel humps when it runs. Two equals humps are more associated to hills than a camel back: all animals are symmetric when watched from the front, but asymmetric when seen from their left/right side. The particular of the neck being lower than the back is something that few animals share, and my mind associates it immediately with a Camel.

Just thinking loud. The work you've done is great.

radimch commented 7 years ago

Logo should be definitely distinguishable even without the words Apache Camel inscribed inside. The circle shape is a good idea.

paoloantinori commented 7 years ago

maybe it's just me, but circle based logos make me think immediately to web browsers

joelicious commented 7 years ago

My initial reaction of the proposed Camel logo was that it looked like a M and not two humps. And then I immediately thought of MuleSoft. Perhaps it is just me? But there is a lot there that I like.

Perhaps my comment is just similar to @nicolaferraro

jdorfman commented 7 years ago

@nicolaferraro you make great points on the use of the letter "M". Your concern is valid. Although it made me look harder and I find it interesting that "M" in directly in the middle of "CAMEL". It sort of connects the "CA" and the "EL" which is sort of what the software does:

Apache Camel is an open source Java framework that focuses on making integration easier and more accessible to developers. It does this by providing:

connectivity to a great variety of transports and APIs

via http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8845186/what-exactly-is-apache-camel

I know it is completely out there but so is the new Uber logo (with the sideways "U"), until I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx1-im6i8uk

rashtisouciance commented 7 years ago

Just my two cents, but the new logo with the humps looks pretty cool and although it took a minute or two to connect the humps it looks really nice. It would be nice with the animal as well but sometimes logos can get cluttered. But definitely going in the right direction. Looking forward to the new site as well ;)

davsclaus commented 7 years ago

Not to diminish the great work by @elioqoshi but is there anyone else whom has graphical talents and want to do a proposal for a logo?

Besides the actual logo I would like to see related graphical artwork we can include in the Apache Camel distribution such as

Camel Animal

For example at hawtio we have this general Camel icon we use in the tooling https://github.com/hawtio/hawtio/blob/master/hawtio-web/src/main/webapp/img/icons/camel.svg

However it would be good to have a similar Camel icon at Apache Camel where we have the (c) of the artwork so there is no implications of including it in the release. I am actually not sure where the origin of that Camel in hawtio is from.

And further down the road a freshen up set of (but this is for a different conversation)

EIP icons

davsclaus commented 7 years ago

I will be on PTO next week (moving to new house) and the following traveling for business. So I wont be so much online and attentive for the following 2 weeks.

By all means keep on this conversation and provide feedback.

I do like the proposal by @elioqoshi and love the fact that the logo can be done as black/white as well and still look good.

I would like to see if the Camel animal can somehow be amended to the logo (for special use-cases) for example as 2 halves of a circle. So its (tail(^^)head) or maybe with the Camel wording so its Ca(^^)el and C and l are used to start/end the circle. Where l can be used as part of the legs of the animal. Anyway just a thought.

oscerd commented 7 years ago

+1 for @elioqoshi proposal. Love it.

davsclaus commented 7 years ago

@oscerd you can do +1 on the comment itself where there is that thumbs up hand with a counter. Then its easier to know the count as it goes up / down accordingly.

oscerd commented 7 years ago

@davsclaus Sure!

ugol commented 7 years ago

I like the logo itself but I don't think if it's good for camel: looks like a new variation of the Mastercard one, both for colors but especially for the M inside...

elioqoshi commented 7 years ago

Really disappointed by the direction where this is going. There is a volunteer contributing time and efforts, a community behind supporting the process and the outcome itself (just check out the thumbsups of the logo) and yet this is ignored and basically treated in a centralized process. This is not how I experienced open source and the values it represents. I do realize that designing in the open is totally different from coding in the open, but it shouldn't come to this.

Not to diminish the great work by @elioqoshi but is there anyone else whom has graphical talents >and want to do a proposal for a logo?

This is actually pretty much the definition of diminishing, sorry. This is insulting to be honest and beyond my personal ego, also leaves out the community comments which are not part of the decision making here.

I hate to become bitter, but there is a limit. I will stop it here and hope that some other designer will be able to satisfy your vision for the project, which I seem to not be able to deliver.

jancborchardt commented 7 years ago

I can fully understand @elioqoshi’s reaction here. There’s a great logo design contributed which lots of people apparently really like. It hints at the camel name while not being in your face. It uses the Apache logo colors in the background. It has a monochrome version which works well. The reasoning behind it has been explained thoroughly by @elioqoshi at https://github.com/opensourcedesign/jobs/issues/108#issuecomment-254012671, unlike lots of the suggestions posted in this thread. That’s demotivating.

This discussion is the typical bikeshedding which drives away contributors (not only designers) away from open source. That’s not what I’d like to see happen in the Open Source Design community. We are welcoming, productive, and also pragmatic to get things done.

is there anyone else whom has graphical talents and want to do a proposal for a logo?

@davsclaus I doubt anyone else would want to put time into it if this devolves into a contest. Also, we are all about collaboration so it should happen working together with @elioqoshi, maybe iterating on the design.

So let’s please work together instead of against each other. Keep in mind we are all in the same boat and this is not an agency bid to battle other participants out.

bzz commented 7 years ago

AFAIK Apache Camel is the project under ASF and ASF is all about community and meritocracy. If something was contributed and has a merit for the project - it usually is accepted by community, even despite some individual preferences (well, may be its not a good wording - better to say that those got worked out during the consensus building process)

With current contribution, may be it's time to move the discussion of current logo proposal to ASF mailing list thread that is linked here?

From my experience working on Apache project for past 2 years - usually there is going to be some extra communication work to get your contribution accepted and ASF bylaws say "if it did not happen on the list - it did not happen". Moving this to the mailing list could be a great way to engage with wider developers community of the project and see if there are other opinions or strong preferences, etc - after all, people who will spend most time looking at the logo are there, not here.

And @elioqoshi, please do not be discouraged! You did amazing job and this logo is one of the best out of all 200+ Apache projects :) Taking about design, especially to developers is hard indeed and requires extra communication and education, so thank you for your efforts in doing so for one particular community!!

By no means I'm in position to give advices here, but if you want one - please, try to bite the bullet and keep up a good work engaging in wider project's developers community and you will not regreat :)

evmin commented 7 years ago

Camel logo should probably avoid resembling M letter. Just to differentiate from the other frameworks.

equinusocio commented 7 years ago

Some scraps (just an idea):

plastelina commented 7 years ago

@equinusocio resembles too mach of these and one more, that I can't recall right now...

@elioqoshi , I think you missed the brief a bit and went off your own path, then got offended when you got genuine critic / feedback. Think simple, block colour, send the message, logo can exists on it's own, without the Camel Apache added.

In general gradients are very 90's in logo design, unless you are instagram and target specific audience ( bubbly teens plus wannabe food photographers ).

Guys from Apache - would you mind writing a short description what would you like from the logo ( what project it is related to, what tools will be used, what software it is related to ), what message would you like to convey. Will the logo be printed on, e.g. t-shirts, pencils, stickers, etc. Do you have any branding colours or do you need branding guidelines to be created? What font, if any would you like Apache to be featured in ( obviously open source ).

With these informations it's easier to reach a consensus over the logo drama.

Ta

plastelina commented 7 years ago

think that way https://rizzo.lonelyplanet.com/styleguide/design-elements/colours - design is agile. design, release, test, repeat. ;)

I would love to help, but I've got way too much work to do at the moment...can help with writing a brief and gathering materials/ inspirations.

BTW, would be helpful if you could create mood board of logos that you guys like (apache team). So the person who designs is isn't going off rails and gets disappointed.

@elioqoshi be nice, be humble and work hard, remember you don't have to be the best in everything...and definitely do not take feedback the way you did. Taste is a personal thing, you didn't ask questions, you just presented them with your point of view over the logo and got offended when they simply feed you back with their point of you ;).

jancborchardt commented 7 years ago

@plastelina just to explain the fade: This is the new/current Apache logo: It has that fade. ;) And that’s why that part of the design is that way.

ssatguru commented 7 years ago

something like this but with some color fill ?

stock-vector-camel-icon-symbol-zoo-set-247834678

more here http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-247834678.html

plastelina commented 7 years ago

@jancborchardt this is neither a fade, not a gradient - it's a spectrum ;). And it does not look anything like the logo proposition... um, not sure why you are chipping in with this comment, are you responsible for apache guidelines :/ or are you actually designing the logo? Again, it's not about arguing about detail, it's about reaching the consensus.

After small research, I do not see the reason why you can not use some funky camel. Here you go ;)

The project is about integrating systems, is that correct : talking camels? shisha pipe, bedouin tent. I would go this direction. this one can follow the concept of the actual Apache feather - and you have an A there for Apache :)

I've got some spare time tomorrow, will try to help...

ghost commented 7 years ago

I fully agree with Elio's point here, his contribution was pretty much upvoted by everyone, as Jan pointed out, although some comments were not based on strong arguments and were just points of view as non-designers, which is IMO a type of attack or insult at Elio's proposal.

I believe that this should not come down to a contest so we should work together and not complain about things that are not very logical to the request and this specific logo.

On 10/23/2016 01:45 PM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:

I can fully understand @elioqoshi https://github.com/elioqoshi’s reaction here. There’s a great logo design contributed which lots of people apparently really like. It hints at the camel name while not being in your face. It uses the Apache logo colors in the background. It has a monochrome version which works well. The reasoning behind it has been explained thoroughly by @elioqoshi https://github.com/elioqoshi at #108 (comment) https://github.com/opensourcedesign/jobs/issues/108#issuecomment-254012671, unlike lots of the suggestions posted in this thread. That’s demotivating.

This discussion is the typical bikeshedding which drives away contributors (not only designers) away from open source. That’s not what I’d like to see happen in the Open Source Design community. We are welcoming, productive, and also pragmatic to get things done.
is there anyone else whom has graphical talents and want to do a
proposal for a logo?
@davsclaus https://github.com/davsclaus I doubt anyone else would want to put time into it if this devolves into a contest. Also, we are all about collaboration so it should happen working together with @elioqoshi https://github.com/elioqoshi, maybe iterating on the design.

So let’s please work together instead of against each other. Keep in mind we are all in the same boat and this is not an agency bid to battle other participants out.

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/opensourcedesign/jobs/issues/108#issuecomment-255584039, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARx9U9ifKJiGwGyQJipY_CDhgbEi_lkqks5q20jBgaJpZM4KR1zA.

Anxhelo Lushka

Computer Engineering Student Open Source Advocate Activist Localizer Designer

Sent from an_xhelo@hotmail.com

onderson commented 7 years ago

briefly, i should say i like the simplicity of @elioqoshi 's design. I must say he has to put up with genuine critism about his design. and whoever does critism should know he is an artist and he has some ego. we have to put up with everybody's ego. This brings no ego :) anyway, just a short critisim from me, even if i am mostly keen on simplicity and plain logo, for this very first moment i felt i would most like a crazier logo; like a camel looking like an octopus, as apache camel embraces open source integration in every aspect.

prathap2k commented 7 years ago

My couple of ¢s here. IMHO, now a days all logos are pretty simple, small in size, with dual or mono color and mostly in 2D style (Just take a look at Github itself), perhaps it's simple effort for a creative/innovative designer.

ssatguru commented 7 years ago

If we want Camel then maybe a Camel in this style? Nice clean flat style

apachespot spot470

See here Apache Spot

opensourcedesign / jobs

New Apache Camel Logo #108