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openstenoproject / plover

Open source stenotype engine
http://opensteno.org/plover
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Dictionary Suggestions #400

Open morinted opened 8 years ago

morinted commented 8 years ago

Report suggestions for changing the default dictionary in this thread

Just reply or edit posts to give suggestions, we'll remove them as they get fixed.

Willem3141 commented 4 years ago 
+"KAUN/TPEFD": "confessed",

This currently translates to "coneffectived".

didoesdigital commented 4 years ago

The dictionary has "SKHRAOUD": "exclude", and "SKHRAOUD/-D": "secluded",.

If you learn SKHRAOUD for exclude, you might reasonably expect SKHRAOUD/-D to be "excluded".

Let's change the entry to "SKHRAOUD/-D": "excluded",.

More details here: https://github.com/didoesdigital/steno-dictionaries/issues/90

didoesdigital commented 4 years ago

Given these entries:

"STKAOE": "disease",
"STKAOED": "disease",
"STKAOEF": "deceive",
"STKAOEFD": "deceived",

… "STKAOED": "disease", is probably meant to be "STKAOED": "diseased", but is missing the trailing "d".

More details here: https://github.com/didoesdigital/steno-dictionaries/issues/111#issuecomment-581105765

didoesdigital commented 4 years ago

"collectable" and "collectible" (and their pluralised versions) both appear to be valid words [source].

Plover includes these suffix strokes:

"-BL": "{^able}",
"EUBL": "{^ible}",

Plover's dictionary includes: 

"KHREBGT/-BL": "collectible",
"KOL/HREBGT/-BL": "collectible",

These dictionary entries don't match the suffix entries.

I propose removing these entries:

-"KHREBGT/-BL": "collectible",
-"KHREBGT/-BL": "collectible",

… and adding these entries:

"KHREBGT/-BL": "collectable",
"KHREBGT/EUBL": "collectible",
"KOL/HREBGT/-BL": "collectable",
"KOL/HREBGT/EUBL": "collectible",
didoesdigital commented 4 years ago

I propose changing "PWERPBLG": "percentage", with an erroneous W causing a 'b' sound to "PERPBLG": "percentage",

joezeng commented 4 years ago 
"HAEF": "heavy"

Imagine my surprise to learn that HAEF is unmapped!

rabbitgrowth commented 4 years ago

"TAEUPBD": "tained" is a bit odd. Since TAEUPB is "contain", one would expect TAEUPBD to be "contained". "tained" isn't even a word, is it?

joezeng commented 4 years ago

I think the TAEUPBD entry is specifically for people who write KAUN/TAEUPBD for "contained", but I agree that it's weird to have as its own entry here rather than a two-stroke entry for the whole word.

rabbitgrowth commented 4 years ago

"culd" is not a word (at least not in modern English - apparently it's an obsolete form of "could"), so I propose removing "KULD": "culd" to make way for "culled".

rabbitgrowth commented 4 years ago

HAPBD/SHAEUBGS should give "handshakes", not "hand".

mulka commented 4 years ago

I propose either removing EUPBD/KWRAB or changing it to be a misstroke for Indian instead of India.

morinted commented 4 years ago

"Roentgen" came out instead of "rent again" haha

antistic commented 4 years ago 
- "HRES/EPB" : "{lessen^}",
aerickt commented 3 years ago

"PHEUPBS/TP-PL": "minutes" is troublesome if you want to put a period after the word "minutes".

tckmn commented 3 years ago
shelvacu commented 3 years ago
JorWat25 commented 3 years ago
rabbitgrowth commented 3 years ago

"PWAR/TKPWAPB/-G": "bagaaining" looks like a typo for "bargaining".

rabbitgrowth commented 3 years ago 
"A/PHEPB/PHE": "anemone",
"A/PHEPB/PHEU": "anemone",

should be corrected to

"A/TPHEPL/TPHE": "anemone",
"A/TPHEPL/TPHEU": "anemone",

It's "anemone", not "amenome".

crides commented 3 years ago

Most of these I have no idea what they are supposed to do, so I just removed them for myself.

Not sure what are these. Bad conversions?

"KHAOEUL/SKWRO/THRABGS/TP-PL": "chylothorax. pgh",
"O*EUPB/PHER/-S": "ionomer pghs",
"TEU/A/RA": "tiara {pgh}",
"TKPW-PB/TPAO*EUR/PR*EPBT": "gunfire ) {pgh}",

Probably bad conversions:

"P-RBGS/H-RBGS/TK-RBGS": "P{l+}h{l-}.D",
"SPWHRAERB": "{^\\^}",
"STKPWHR-FPLT/SKW-TS": "{!'}",
"TP-PL/KH-FG": "{.} {`}{-|}",

Seems to be a bad conversion; should probably be {^.^}org:

"P-P/O*RG": "{^.^ org}",

No idea what this is:

"TPHRO*L": "{n}",

Probably bad conversions; should all have a ^ at the start?

"KWRAUR/KWREPBT": "{-orient}",
"OBGS/A*PB": "{oxan}",
"OPBLG/EUBG": "{ologic}",
"PH*EUT/RA/SEUPB": "{mithracin}",
"TKOBGS/*EUPB": "{doxin}",
paulfioravanti commented 3 years ago

This is a list of words for consideration which I could not find in Plover's dictionary. I added them to my own dictionaries (with outlines that felt right to me) while working through Platinum Steno's theory lessons.

"A*EURT": "airth",
"A/TA/PWOEU": "attaboy",
"A/TA/PWOEUS": "attaboys",
"ELD/ER/PWER/REU": "elderberry",
"EUPB/SRAOEU/TAOES": "invitees",
"EUPB/SRAOEU/TAOEZ": "invitees",
"HAEUR/STAO*EUL": "hairstyle",
"HART/HART": "hart",
"HOEF": "hove",
"HOEPL/S*EUBG": "homesick",
"HOLT": "holt",
"HRA*EZ": "laze",
"HRA*RT": "lather",
"HRUF/PW*EURD": "lovebird",
"HRUF/PW*EURDZ": "lovebirds",
"K*UFBG": "cusk",
"KAO*E": "quay",
"KHEBG/PO*EUPBT": "checkpoint",
"KORPB/H*UFBG": "cornhusk",
"KORPB/STA*FRPB": "cornstarch",
"KRA*EUP": "crape",
"KWRAOEUP": "yipe",
"KWROUL": "yowl",
"PEUT/PW*UL": "pitbull",
"PHA*LD": "madly",
"PO*EUPBD": "poind",
"PRAEUFRL": "prayerful",
"PW*UBG/AOEU": "buckeye",
"PWHROE/TO*FRPB": "blowtorch",
"PWRAURL": "brawler",
"PWUFBG": "busk",
"RAFR": "raver",
"RAOUB": "rube",
"RE/HREPBT": "relent",
"RE/HREPBTS": "relents",
"REUFRBT": "riverboat",
"RO*RT": "rort",
"RUFBG": "rusk",
"S*UPBD": "sunned",
"SAOEULT": "sightly",
"SEULD": "sild",
"SHAOERPBS": "sheerness",
"SK*EURL": "skirl",
"SKAOL/PHARPL": "schoolmarm",
"SKARBD": "scabbard",
"SKRAO*EU": "scry",
"SKRAOEBG": "screak",
"SKRAOEUF": "scrive",
"SKRAOFP": "scrooch",
"SKROD": "scrod",
"SKWAU/TP*EURB": "squawfish",
"SKWEUL/HRA": "squilla",
"SO*BG": "sobbing",
"SPA*RT": "sparth",
"SPAOEFPLS": "speechless",
"SPAOEPB/TKAOUSZ/TAOEBG/UPL": "subpoena duces tecum",
"SPHEU/PRERBS": "semiprecious",
"SPHOLT": "smolt",
"SPR*EUT": "sprit",
"SR*ELD": "veld",
"SRAFRB": "varve",
"STAL/WO*RT": "stalworth",
"STPHAO*D": "snood",
"STPHAOBG": "snook",
"STRAG/HRERS": "stragglers",
"STRAOERPL": "streamer",
"STRORL": "stroller",
"SWA*RT": "swarth",
"TAOL/PWO*BGS": "toolbox",
"TKAOR/PHAT": "doormat",
"TKEUS/T*EPBGS": "distention",
"TKO*/TPH*UTS": "donuts",
"TKOE/TPH*UTS": "doughnuts",
"TKPWA*RT": "garth",
"TKREBG": "dreck",
"TKRUB": "drub",
"TPA*PBD": "fanned",
"TPHAOERPBS": "nearness",
"TPHRAOD/HRAO*EUT": "floodlight",
"TPHREURB/TKPWEUBT": "flibbertigibbet",
"TPREU/KA/SAOE": "fricassee",
"TPREUBG/SAOE": "fricassee",
"TPROLG/-D": "frolicked"
rabbitgrowth commented 2 years ago

"PRE/OR": "pre- or" should probably be removed. It doesn't make sense and makes it impossible to write "preordain" by chaining together {pre^} and "ordain" (PRE/OR/TKAEUPB).

(Edit 8 months later: As slampisko says below, "pre- or" does make some sense. And "ordain" should probably be written as AUR/TKAEUPB anyway.)

slampisko commented 2 years ago

"PRE/OR": "pre- or" should probably be removed. It doesn't make sense and makes it impossible to write "preordain" by chaining together {pre^} and "ordain" (PRE/OR/TKAEUPB).

It makes some sense (e.g. Is that $5.39 pre- or post-tax?), but it doesn't come up that often and can be substituted by PR*E/S-P/OR. I agree with the removal.

Vermoot commented 2 years ago

I've just found APBT/TKOET/THAPB for "antidote". Probably a mistake?

SeaLiteral commented 2 years ago

HAT/*ER currently outputs "hater", but I'm pretty sure "hatter is a word in English. And if you want to write "hater" you can use HAEUT/*ER or even HAEURT. The shortest stroke for "hatter" would be HAT/TK-LS/T*/*ER, four strokes. I think HAT/*ER should be mapped to "hatter" so people don't accidentally call someone who makes hats a hater.

antistic commented 2 years ago

"PHR*UP":"{PLOVER:LOOKUP}"

Very useful for beginners. Some of the other suggested commands might also be useful. (Alternatively, it could be good practice for learning how to add to the dictionary?)

YannCebron commented 2 years ago

SKWRET/PWRAEUPBS outputs Jetbrains, but the correct casing is JetBrains (https://www.jetbrains.com/company/)

Gazareth commented 1 year ago

SKWR-ERPBDZ is used to write "genders", but phonetically spells "JERNDZ" (or "JENRDZ", if using inversion). I think the -R should be removed, since "JENDZ" sounds a lot closer and SKWR-EPBDZ is not used in an existing translation.

aerickt commented 1 year ago

SKWR-ERPBDZ is used to write "genders", but phonetically spells "JERNDZ" (or "JENRDZ", if using inversion). I think the -R should be removed, since "JENDZ" sounds a lot closer and SKWR-EPBDZ is not used in an existing translation.

Although inversions should technically only happen between adjacent sounds, you can find this "rule" broken from time to time. SKWRERPBDZ is actually trying to go for "JENDRZ". You can find the same thing happening in "tender", "ponder", "binder", etc. It's important note that briefs like these don't have to follow rules strictly; there's always a little leeway especially in main.json.

Gazareth commented 1 year ago

SKWR-ERPBDZ is used to write "genders", but phonetically spells "JERNDZ" (or "JENRDZ", if using inversion). I think the -R should be removed, since "JENDZ" sounds a lot closer and SKWR-EPBDZ is not used in an existing translation.

Although inversions should technically only happen between adjacent sounds, you can find this "rule" broken from time to time. SKWRERPBDZ is actually trying to go for "JENDRZ". You can find the same thing happening in "tender", "ponder", "binder", etc. It's important note that briefs like these don't have to follow rules strictly; there's always a little leeway especially in main.json.

Not just technically, but invariably, inversions should only happen between adjacent sounds. At least, according to Learn Plover. If there's a well established convention for this not being the case, then fair enough. Perhaps the docs could be updated to mention these exceptions?

aerickt commented 1 year ago

Perhaps the docs could be updated to mention these exceptions?

You can try emailing Zack about this—he replies pretty quickly. But I would argue that since SKWRERPBDZ is a brief, I wouldn't expect a beginner to have to memorize an outline like this from the beginning. It's more crucial to just stick to phonetic write-outs (like SKWREPB/TKER in this case). And these are just exceptions, not rules (for example HRERPBD is "learned" instead of "lender"). Including these might be more confusing.

Not just technically, but invariably, inversions should only happen between adjacent sounds.

This only applies to phonetic write-outs (which Learn Plover! is primarily for). Briefs aren't restrained by theory rules and can be completely arbitrary sometimes.

Gazareth commented 1 year ago

Ah right, I didn't realise they were briefs. Is there a way to tell what is a brief and what isn't?

Zackrobat commented 1 year ago

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 1:54 AM Aerick @.***> wrote:

Perhaps the docs could be updated to mention these exceptions?

You can try emailing Zack about this—he replies pretty quickly. But I would argue that since SKWRERPBDZ is a brief, I wouldn't expect a beginner to have to memorize an outline like this from the beginning. It's more crucial to just stick to phonetic write-outs (like SKWREPB/TKER in this case). And these are just exceptions, not rules (for example HRERPBD is "learned" instead of "lender"). Including these might be more confusing.

Not just technically, but invariably, inversions should only happen between adjacent sounds.

This only applies to phonetic write-outs (which Learn Plover! is primarily for). Briefs aren't restrained by theory rules and can be completely arbitrary sometimes.

It's true -- Learn Plover! is mostly concerned with "generic" theory, which I think is very similar across a lot of different steno systems. It's mostly the briefs that distinguish any particular theory from the others. But I could be wrong.

As for updating the docs -- I'm sad to say that Learn Plover! is not maintained at the moment. Ever since google migrated to the new version of Google Sites, I haven't found a great way to adapt to the "web 2.0" look and feel, especially since they don't allow the inverse text coloring that I use for strokes.

My hope is that the whole site could be migrated away from Google Sites to something more community-maintained, like in the github codebase itself. I'd be happy to help with that if it's desired; though even then I would probably let the community continue to maintain the pages collectively, rather than taking an active role myself as 'maintainer'. I proposed something like this awhile back, but there didn't seem to be much interest. So the pages on Google Sites are currently simply languishing, going gradually further and further out of date.

Gazareth said: Ah right, I didn't realise they were briefs. Is there a way to tell what is a brief and what isn't?

If you mean, does the dictionary identify entries as briefs or nonbriefs, I don't think so. But a brief is always an entry that violates the phonetic theory. If you look through the dictionary, there are lots of words that have tons of entries, and generally only one or two of those follow the phonetic keystrokes. The rest are all technically "briefs", although you should definitely not simply use a brief on faith. A lot of dictionary entries are intended to correct for mis-strokes. I.e. they are mistakes. So if you just see something that violates phonetic theory and start to use it, you could be memorizing a mis-stroke instead of a proper brief. As I understand it, briefs generally try to follow some sort of logical structure, so that large groups of similar words will use the same little gimmick in their briefs. It's a lot less usual for a brief to just be an arbitrarily chosen keystroke. So, one way to identify which dictionary entry is a brief and which are mis-strokes is to look for other entries for other words, that use the same little gimmick. Likewise, mis-strokes can give themselves away, for example they have the same number of strokes as the phonetic version; or they way they violate the phonetic version is by using a key that is right next to the key you would have used for the phonetic version. But you need to be aware that briefs can also have mis-stroke entries in the dictionary. So a mis-stroke could use fewer strokes than the phonetic version yet still be a mis-stroke.

I hope some of that is useful.

Be well, Zack

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caspian-maclean commented 2 months ago

Fingerspelling z is should probably be consistent with the other letters, it's currently something like: "STK": "z" in main.json which defines it as a word (so it gets spaces around it) To make it the same as the other letters would be: "STK": "{>}{&z}", "STK*/SP-S": "z",