look here: https://github.com/secret-art-thing/plans/issues
amonks [5:53 PM]
we _could_ probably start a “boutique” ad network
[5:53]
not do data stuff
[5:53]
vet advertisers for “goodness"
[5:54]
(somehow)
[5:54]
maybe target a particular indie community
[5:54]
and give a cut to users
[5:54]
but that sounds hard and long-term
[5:54]
we can’t just like
[5:54]
put it out there and walk away
[5:55]
maybe we could
taylor [5:55 PM]
What if it was like an saic thing
amonks [5:55 PM]
i’m not tryna run that
[5:55]
i’m graduating
taylor [5:55 PM]
Would there be a way to just set it up to run itself? Prolly not?
amonks [5:56 PM]
maybe
[5:56]
like
[5:56]
accept anything from an saic email address?
taylor [5:56 PM]
Cause everything changes all the times there would need to be some upkeep
[5:56]
Yeah
amonks [5:56 PM]
hmm
[5:57]
any week, anyone with @saic can pay 20$ and submit a gif
[5:58]
and then those ads are shown for that week
[5:58]
that wouldn’t necessarily be too hard actually
taylor [5:59 PM]
Yeah, could be succesful
amonks [5:59 PM]
let’s see
[5:59]
the server needs to:
[5:59]
- keep track of who paid 20$
[5:59]
- keep track of the gifs
[5:59]
- keep a database of users
[5:59]
- keep payment information for all of the users
[6:00]
- keep a bank account or something to hold the 20$ses until payment
[6:00]
- handle bank transfers to users every week/month/whatever
[6:01]
- ^ which means it’d need to figure out how to divvy the money between users
[6:01]
- proportional by pageview? (one person could just automate hitting refresh all day and get the whole $20)
[6:02]
- evenly to each bank account? (we’d have to make sure ppl didn’t just turn off the plugin and keep getting $$ ; or maybe we wouldn't)
[6:02]
this is starting to sound hard too
taylor [6:04 PM]
haha yeah. And we would need to continue it as a business, and that's a lot of commitment, and im sure administration wouldnt like students makingk money off other students
amonks [6:05 PM]
i’m not so sure about administration
[6:05]
but i feel you re commitment
[6:05]
i wonder if we could find ways around any of those things
[6:06]
maybe we just call it an art thing and users don’t get paid
[6:06]
we make it 5$
[6:06]
*we* take the 5$
[6:06]
and the gifs are art rather than ads
[6:06]
I’m down to make sure a gif isn’t spam if I’m getting 5$
[6:06]
and also I’d def consider getting saic arts up in my browser for free just for fun
taylor [6:07 PM]
So people submit gifs and they are curated through a plugin?
amonks [6:07 PM]
yeah
[6:07]
there’s a website where you can pay 5$ and submit a gif
[6:07]
we look at the gifs and make sure they aren’t spam (or whatever)
taylor [6:07 PM]
Yeah, that sounds cool. Would they link to a webpage?
[6:08]
Like artist page
[6:08]
Or nah
amonks [6:08 PM]
and then once approved, gifs show up in the browser of whomever downloads the plugin
[6:08]
yeah sure
[6:08]
link makes sense
[6:08]
or maybe that’s spammy
taylor [6:08 PM]
Yeah I can't decide if that's spammy or not?
[6:08]
Maybe its not, we are basically a gallery
[6:09]
Website with an upload form (gif , link)
amonks [6:09 PM]
[[laptop died]]
[6:10]
maybe it links to some plain text
[6:10]
hosted on our website
[6:10]
that can include or not include links
[6:10]
to other things
[6:10]
and we have clear criteria for what counts as spam
[6:11]
i like that ppl could have links to art stuff
[6:11]
but a “any link is spam” policy is easier to enforce
taylor [6:12 PM]
Maybe it can just be a like a hover to reveal artist name? But you can't click it?
amonks [6:12 PM]
i’m not into hover
[6:13]
if that was the goal I’d say click for a page on our website with artist name, a permanent archive of the image, and whatever else
taylor [6:13 PM]
Ohhh I see
[6:13]
Hm
amonks [6:13 PM]
but that’s the same basic idea
[6:13]
of not allowing links
taylor [6:13 PM]
Yeah
amonks [6:13 PM]
but maybe ppl would do cool stuff with links
[6:13]
hmm
[6:14]
trust vs freedom
[6:14]
it’s more “art” to say anything goes
taylor [6:14 PM]
I feel like if people are gonna pay, they want to promote
amonks [6:14 PM]
yeah
taylor [6:15 PM]
Maybe we don't facilitate anything?
amonks [6:15 PM]
but I think I’d rather have it be ads *as* art than ads *for* art
taylor [6:15 PM]
True
amonks [6:15 PM]
and if a dollar gets you a week of ppls eyeballs
[6:15]
or whatever
[6:15]
there’s a price point at which it’s p reasonable
[6:15]
to not expect to get reward in clicks back
taylor [6:18 PM]
Would we have an idea on how many people are using the plugin?
amonks [6:18 PM]
maybe
[6:19]
at minimum we’d know how many times he had to serve each gif
[6:19]
and the ip addresses we served them to
[6:19]
bundling those logs into something meaningful/readable is effort-but-possible
[6:20]
we could also have the plugin report back in types of ways
[6:20]
but I’d be less into that tbh
[6:20]
we’re granting ourselves a lot of power with replacing stuff on every website
[6:20]
I feel like the plugin should do that in as plain and transparent a way possible
[6:21]
like
taylor [6:21 PM]
Yeah, maybe that's not important. Just providing the platform for more eyes
amonks [6:21 PM]
yeah
[6:21]
non-saic ppl can download the plugin
[6:21]
and eventually non-saic ppl could be allowed to submit gifs
[6:22]
but it’d make it harder to moderate maybe
[6:22]
but anyway we’d be pretty empowered to make growth-or-not decisions and have it be cool either way
taylor [6:23 PM]
Yeah. we just start with saic
[6:25]
Or maybe we start with no restrictions
[6:25]
No no nvm
[6:25]
Upload with saic email
amonks [6:29 PM]
ok
[6:29]
so now mechanics
[6:29]
re charging
[6:29]
i see a couple options:
[6:29]
- n$ gets you in the pool for a week, each ad is randomly chosen from the pool (edited)
[6:30]
- n$ gets you in the pool, which contains the most recent x submissions (edited)
[6:31]
- pay what you will: if in the last week, ppl have paid 100$ and you paid 5 of them, your ad will show up 1 in 20 times
[6:32]
- n$ gets you x pageviews. if there are no bought pageviews left, everyone just goes ad-free
[6:32]
i kinda like the pay what you will one
[6:33]
but I also like the idea of making the system favor the ppl with most money less
[6:33]
or like not give them a disproportionate advantage
taylor [6:34 PM]
Ha yeah but also more money.. Lol
I like option 2 the most
amonks [6:34 PM]
word
[6:34]
can you submit the same gif twice to get two slots in the pool?
[6:34]
can you submit multiple gifs into the pool at the same time, or is it one-per-week-per-email?
[6:35]
i like limiting by email
[6:35]
(/credit card at scale)
taylor [6:35 PM]
Yeah I think that's a good idea
[6:36]
It would be super easy to spam if not
amonks [6:36 PM]
yeah
[6:36]
but expensive
[6:36]
anyway yeah, limit by email
[6:37]
actually
[6:37]
I think email is harder than credit card
taylor [6:37 PM]
Oh yeah, forgot about Payment. In which case I don't think it matters
[6:37]
We would still be facilitating more money more views
amonks [6:37 PM]
well
taylor [6:37 PM]
But, idk. I feel at the scale we are at it won't matter much
amonks [6:37 PM]
let’s say the pool contains the last 20 submissions
[6:38]
if someone pays 100$, they can submit 20 gifs and buy the whole pool
[6:38]
is that good or bad?
[6:38]
idk
[6:38]
i think bad tho
[6:38]
for plugin-users
taylor [6:38 PM]
I think bad, but not necessarily at first
amonks [6:39 PM]
yeah true
[6:39]
a few ppl doing it a lot
taylor [6:39 PM]
I don't see somebody doing that right off the batt
amonks [6:39 PM]
is probably good for growth
[6:39]
still i think it’s better to think this stuff through and be clear than to change policy mid course
[6:40]
for community stuff like this where ppl get attached
taylor [6:40 PM]
Mm yeah true
amonks [6:40 PM]
being liked is pretty key
[6:41]
actually
[6:41]
I think I’m leaning towards
[6:41]
the pool contains the last week’s worth of submissions (however many that is)
[6:41]
but each person can only submit once per week
[6:41]
or
[6:41]
say
[6:41]
5 times per week
taylor [6:42 PM]
Yeah I would say 5 times a week.
amonks [6:42 PM]
once per day?
[6:42]
that’s easy
taylor [6:42 PM]
Yeah
amonks [6:42 PM]
cool
[6:43]
so what do we need
taylor [6:43 PM]
Do the gifs change on page loads?
amonks [6:43 PM]
yeah
[6:43]
i figure we have a url like artads.com/gimme-an-ad
[6:43]
that goes to a random one from the pool
[6:43]
and then the plugin can just keep hitting that url
[6:44]
- a thing that takes 5$ and a gif, and adds that gif to the moderation queue
[6:45]
- a thing that shows a moderator a gif from the moderation queue, lets them click yes or no, and adds it to the pool or not
[6:45]
- a thing that takes gifs out of the pool after a week
taylor [6:45 PM]
[I'm on my phone and its not loading the site] but im following
amonks [6:45 PM]
- a thing that picks a random gif from the pool (the url)
[6:46]
oh that wasn’t a real link
[6:46]
i just made it up
taylor [6:46 PM]
Oh haha
amonks [6:46 PM]
- a browser plugin
[6:47]
I think minimally
[6:47]
we can skip the moderation
[6:47]
skip the time-to-live
[6:47]
and skip the plugin
[6:47]
so yeah
[6:47]
today
[6:47]
my goal is to make a page you can upload a gif to
[6:48]
and a url that points to a random uploaded gif
[6:48]
and we can go from there