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reactjs / id.react.dev

(Work in progress) React documentation website in Indonesian
https://id.react.dev
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[OLD] Style Guide & Common Terms #2

Closed regalius closed 1 year ago

regalius commented 5 years ago

UPDATE: 👉 Please Check out the Glossary and TRANSLATION.md file

Hi @reactjs/reactjs-org-indonesian-translation ,

Before more contributors joined, I think we need to:

  1. Start building our style guide
  2. Agreed upon common diction/terms that we'll choose

Perhaps, we need a TRANSLATION.md like our Japanese counterpart.

gedeagas commented 5 years ago

Checkout the glossary

Common Terms

Propose new terms here:

English Indonesian

If you encounter a term that is not yet in the list, please suggest it here. If you also come up with the translation that would be awesome.

regalius commented 5 years ago

I propose the following diction:

re-render --> render ulang

This terms can be either kept in English or translated to Bahasa (me personally prefer them to be in english since it is easier to understand): controlled component --> Komponen terkontrol uncontrolled component --> Komponen tak terkontrol

The other terms I think would be easier for readers if it stays in English because it'll be a little bit weird if it translated into standardized Bahasa: arrow function --> ?? event handler --> pengurus even ?

gedeagas commented 5 years ago

i agree with you @regalius, sometimes literal translation can be little bit weird if it translated into standardized Bahasa. so for those word i think we should keep it as is.

controlled component --> Komponen terkontrol uncontrolled component --> Komponen tak terkontrol

for these word, i also prefer them in english. But, if we want to make translation for people who doesn't speak english that well would they understand the meaning of these word ?.

@arfianadam do you have other opinion ?

arfianadam commented 5 years ago

The point of having a localized documentation is to have more people understand the contents better. Indeed there are a lot of terms that were already familiar and easier to understand in English. But, we can't throw away the fact that there might be still many people who don't understand those terms.

So the solution would be, if the literal translations of those terms sound weird or even harder to understand, first we must try to think if there is better words to replace the literal translations. Then if we can't find the replacement, we may use the English word instead. Note that we can't just put English words here just because it's hard to translate them.

Since it's undeniable that there will be not translated English words, we can come up with a separate Glossary page that explains those might-be-hard-to-understand terms. Can we do that @tesseralis ?

tesseralis commented 5 years ago

@arfianadam There's already a glossary in the docs: https://reactjs.org/docs/glossary.html It might be a good idea to do that first :)

One thing I've seen people do is use the english term but put the translated term in parentheses the first time it's mentioned.

arfianadam commented 5 years ago

Let's track the progress of those terms' translation here. Later when we are ready to publish it we should update https://github.com/reactjs/id.reactjs.org/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md so that contributors can know the decision. I've edited @gedeagas 's comment to track the progress.

regalius commented 5 years ago

Several things that I noticed after translating the Homepage,

About Component/Komponen stuff. I think it makes more sense to keep it as it is for:

But for standalone Component we can just translate it to Komponen, later we can have some kind of glossary that explains it in Bahasa just like čĻģ詞ãŪįĩąäļ€ in Japanese Translation repo.

The other thing that I noticed is about our style guide on when we should italicize a foreign terms? I think we should italicize them when it is part of a paragraph only (not in the header)

gedeagas commented 5 years ago

@regalius in my opinion, loanwords only need to be italicized when it is part of a paragraph only.

martinock commented 5 years ago

Hi, should we translate "Function Component" into "Komponen Fungsi" or just let it be "Function Component"?

PS*: Also asking for "Class Component"

regalius commented 5 years ago

In my opinion, for now, I think let's keep them in English @martinock, because I found them to be very tightly coupled to React-specific term, so it'll be weird if it got translated to standardized Bahasa, later if we find the needs to translate the whole * Component, we can do it easier.

regalius commented 5 years ago

I've added @gedeagas 's comment to the glossary, feel free to improve it!

mendoanjoe commented 5 years ago

try using this ? I.G.3. @martinock

gedeagas commented 5 years ago

@regalius @arfianadam

English Indonesian
separates concerns memisahkan kepentingan

gimana ?

arfianadam commented 5 years ago

@gedeagas contoh konteks kalimatnya seperti apa? Sekilas benar tapi kok jadi kepikiran kalau di konteks tertentu mungkin bisa berubah arti.

mnindrazaka commented 5 years ago

how about Fragment, should we translate it to Pecahan ?

mazipan commented 5 years ago
English Indonesian
package paket

Based on this PR: https://github.com/reactjs/id.reactjs.org/pull/11/files, line 13

aisy commented 5 years ago

How about key? should like this key

mazipan commented 5 years ago

@aisy: Pilihannya antara kita pertahankan istilah dalam bahasa inggris, tapi dengan italic. Atau kita translate secara harafiah.

Tapi bisa juga kita sertakan keduanya agar pembaca bisa memahami konteks aslinya, ex: Kunci (key)

arfianadam commented 5 years ago

@mnindrazaka @mazipan kedua kata tersebut lebih baik dipertahankan dalam Bahasa Inggris. Fragment dan package. Ada masukan @regalius @gedeagas ?

mazipan commented 5 years ago

Yang penting konsisten sih mas @arfianadam, jangan ada yang gonta-ganti.

regalius commented 5 years ago

Agreed with mas @arfianadam, I'd add it to the Glossary also

regalius commented 5 years ago

@aisy key is fine mas, because I think it is a React specific term

TitusEfferian commented 5 years ago

halo, saya menghadapi beberapa kosa kata serapan yang jika diterjemahkan kedalam bahasa indonesia menjadi lebih rancu, dikarenakan biasanya juga dalam studi maupun jurnal tetap menggunakan serapan

contoh: class public (access modifier) bind / binding listeners

apakah harus diterjemahkan, atau dapat di cetak miring saja?

regalius commented 5 years ago

Hi mas @TitusEfferian,

class -> kelas public -> publik

bind -> bind (event) listener -> (event) listener

publik and kelas is acceptable enough I think 😄

For example:

Untuk membuat sebuah komponen baru, kita akan membuat sebuah kelas, kelas tersebut akan bersifat publik. Setelah komponen dibuat, sebuah event listener akan kita bind ke komponen tersebut agar komponen dapat menerima event

regalius commented 5 years ago

Mas @gedeagas , separates concerns as in memisahkan kepentingan is OK to be translated, while Separation of Concerns(SOC) I think is better to be not translated as it is common engineering term. CMIIW

TitusEfferian commented 5 years ago

so, how about this sentences? public class fields syntax do i need to translate to : sintaksis bidang kelas publik? @regalius

regalius commented 5 years ago

@TitusEfferian IMO, If you are using the experimental public class fields syntax -> Jika anda menggunakan sintaks eksperimental public class fields

because public class fields in this case is the name of the syntax itself :smile:

gedeagas commented 5 years ago

Awesome @regalius

mnindrazaka commented 5 years ago

any suggestion for shallow comparison ? should it translate to perbandingan dangkal

itsnotrisky commented 5 years ago

Noticed inconsistency translation for Importing on these 2 PRs #16 and #18 (Pengimporan vs Mengimpor). I feel like the context here is trying to say Cara Menggunakan as in how to use the syntax, or how to load it into your environment if that makes sense.

English Indonesian
Importing (How to import) Cara Menggunakan

When someone approved and added this translation to glossary, could you order it by alphabet please?

Also let's try to avoid asking translations on this issue so that it keeps clean with glossary suggestions. No harm opening up a new issue if you find it hard to come up with one. And once you got your translation you can always link your issue back here to be added to glossay. Just my two cents :thumbsup:

martinock commented 5 years ago

While translating tutorial page, I found some term that are not in glossary yet and come up with suggestion: mutable --> mutable mutate --> mutate immutable --> immutable immutability--> immutability object tree --> pohon objek

I suggest we add these keyword to glossary. What do you think?

regalius commented 5 years ago

@spondbob I do agree about the context of Importing for these 2 PRs are Cara menggunakan, do you mind to leave your comments to these PRs also?

About the alphabetic glossary, yep, I'll arrange them in alphabetic order since it has grown quite big

About asking the translations on this issue, I think it's fine if you want to ask them here or create a new issue, in the end, our source of truth should be on the glossary so you might not need to check terms out here, since it'll be easier to check the glossary instead 😄

itsnotrisky commented 5 years ago

Cheers @regalius, sure will leave a comment there.

On a second thought, Cara Import more straightforward than Cara Menggunakan cause Cara Menggunakan may imply how to use the API itself or how to use it as an example.

English Indonesian
Importing (How to import) Cara Import
Overview Ikhtisar

Added using Ikhtisar from the same PRs.

riandy-dimas commented 5 years ago
English Indonesian
higher-level API
  • API tingkat atas
  • API tingkat tinggi
  • higher-level API
    		•

    Is it okay to put higher-level API as it is? Kinda weird to translate it into API tingkat atas / API tingkat tinggi.

    regalius commented 5 years ago

    Hmm, API tingkat atas is, I personally think somewhat fine, What do you think guys @arfianadam @gedeagas ?

    resir014 commented 5 years ago

    HI @regalius, I've taken my time to set up a TRANSLATION.md file like our Japanese counterpart, which also hosts the translated version of the Universal Style Guide. I've also opened PR #20 to add it here.

    regalius commented 5 years ago

    Nice, thanks @resir014 👍

    arfianadam commented 5 years ago

    @regalius *API* tingkat atas is fine I think.

    RiskyFeryansyahP commented 5 years ago

    how about subscription ? should i translate it to Berlangganan or keep subscription with italic ?

    regalius commented 5 years ago

    Hmm can you give the full sentence @RiskyFeryansyahP ? 😄 Generally I think it'll be better to translate it as Berlangganan but, let's see from the context of the sentence itself

    grikomsn commented 5 years ago

    Here's an example from what I'm currently working on Hooks at a Glance, emphasis mine:

    ...for example, this component uses an effect to subscribe to a friend's online status, and cleans up by unsubscribing from it.

    Can be roughly translated to this:

    ...sebagai contoh, komponen berikut menggunakan sebuah efek untuk subscribe kepada status online teman, dan membersihkan dengan unsubscribe darinya.

    Or maybe this:

    ...sebagai contoh, komponen berikut menggunakan sebuah efek untuk berlangganan kepada status online teman, dan membersihkan dengan berhenti berlangganan darinya.

    grikomsn commented 5 years ago

    Also, what does lifecycle translates to? Example sentences:

    itsnotrisky commented 5 years ago

    Just thinking out loud here:

    ...this component uses an effect to subscribe to a friend's online status, and cleans up by unsubscribing from it.

    ...komponen berikut menggunakan sebuah efek untuk (menerima/memperoleh) status online teman, dan menghentikan (efek/proses) tersebut setelahnya.

    Here we know that by subscribe means it is continually receiving data, so I reckon it is safe to say menerima/memperoleh than berlangganan which in my head is more like for subscribing papers. And you can possibly add menerima/memperoleh secara terus menerus to emphasize the meaning. Same idea with unsubscribe, using the synonyms to fit in Indonesian.

    As for lifecycle you can try siklus:

    Another form would be tahapan-tahapan. Try to find the synonyms if it fits well than a direct translation.

    With that, is it worth it to link the Glossary somewhere in the doc/website where we can explain more about the terms used? If we have that we can keep using the English form and in someway link it to Glossary for readers to understand it. For examples:

    I don't know if other languages doing that way. Otherwise just translate it as close as to our audience.

    RiskyFeryansyahP commented 5 years ago

    Just thinking out loud here:

    ...this component uses an effect to subscribe to a friend's online status, and cleans up by unsubscribing from it.

    ...komponen berikut menggunakan sebuah efek untuk (menerima/memperoleh) status online teman, dan menghentikan (efek/proses) tersebut setelahnya.

    Here we know that by subscribe means it is continually receiving data, so I reckon it is safe to say menerima/memperoleh than berlangganan which in my head is more like for subscribing papers. And you can possibly add menerima/memperoleh secara terus menerus to emphasize the meaning. Same idea with unsubscribe, using the synonyms to fit in Indonesian.

    As for lifecycle you can try siklus:

    • React state and lifecycle features -> Fitur-fitur state dan siklus React OR Fitur-fitur React seperti state dan siklus (It seems features is a noun for state and lifecycle. Not sure with the rest of sentence where it could possibly be a verb.)
    • Class lifecycles -> Siklus kelas
    • Lifecycle methods -> (metode/fungsi) siklus

    Another form would be tahapan-tahapan. Try to find the synonyms if it fits well than a direct translation.

    With that, is it worth it to link the Glossary somewhere in the doc/website where we can explain more about the terms used? If we have that we can keep using the English form and in someway link it to Glossary for readers to understand it. For examples:

    • subscribe: Proses menerima data secara terus menerus atau kontinu.
    • lifecycle: Rangkaian proses yang terjadi secara berurutan. Sebagai contoh component lifecycles -> siklus komponen React yang dimulai dari componentWillMount bla bla bla

    I don't know if other languages doing that way. Otherwise just translate it as close as to our audience.

    i think it's a good idea using menerima/memperoleh

    lunmay commented 5 years ago

    I have several suggestions for the existing Glosarium entries:

    English Indonesian Suggestion Comment
    export eksport ekspor (n), mengekspor (v) I don't understand why it ends with 't'. in the original entry
    import import impor (n), mengimpor (v) Ditto
    mobile phone telepon seluler ponsel Shorter is always better, no?
    mount pasang kait (v) Rather than the general 'pasang', let's narrow its meaning here. For example: "componentDidMount() akan langsung dijalankan setelah komponen dikaitkan (disisipkan ke pohon)"
    package package paket (n) Except as keyword, let's use it just like other paket in other worlds, shall we?
    plugin plugin plugin (n) Just absorb it. No need to italicize it.
    render render render (v) Just absorb it. See rendering for the noun. Verb is simply 'merender'
    rendering rendering proses render We can always call it perenderan, but...
    regalius commented 5 years ago

    ...sebagai contoh, komponen berikut menggunakan sebuah efek untuk berlangganan kepada status online teman, dan membersihkan dengan berhenti berlangganan darinya.

    @grikomsn I think in this sentence I personally prefer berlangganan because it sounds more fluid rather than subscribe, What do you think?

    For lifecycle, I personally prefer to just keep it as lifecycle since it sounds more familiar and somewhat tightly coupled with React terms.

    Also agreed with @spondbob that we might have a glossary later to explain the English form to the readers for easier understanding

    grikomsn commented 5 years ago

    The word berlangganan seems okay, but if used on a sentence like data subscription -> (ber)langganan data sounds weird, IMO.

    And lifecycle is somewhat better sounding than siklus. Should I revert my commit or something, @regalius?

    regalius commented 5 years ago

    @lunmay , I'd try to explain each of the entry and the decision making behind it as best as I could.

    CMIIW 😄

    goFrendiAsgard commented 5 years ago

    I can't find the correct translation for pass an event handler. Based on the glosarium, I should translate it into mengoperkan sebuah event handler. IMO It doesn't sound right. Any opinion on this?

    imiro commented 5 years ago

    Hi! I stumbled upon some terms that might be good to be added to the Glossary. I've written down my own suggestions for them.

    English Indonesian suggestion Comments
    Refactor menuliskan ulang, menuliskan kembali
    Web web, jaringan As in web app, is it better to use aplikasi web or aplikasi jaringan ?
    Mouse tetikus I think both tetikus and kursor could be used in this case
    Cursor kursor
    Encapsulate merangkum / mengenkapsulasi Google's Indonesian Translation for encapsulates is merangkum, but it does not sound convincing? I personally prefer meng-enkapsulasi, what do you guys think?

    Also, I noticed that listener has been included in the glossary to be used as is (italicized), but how about this sentence?

    ... <Mouse> component encapsulates all behavior associated with listening for mousemove events ...

    Should it translates to:

    komponen <Mouse> mengenkapsulasi semua perilaku yang terkait dengan me-listen kepada event mousemove ?